I check this site every morning before work and I'm hooked you guy's have some really good ideas. That brings me to my problem I purchased a 300 winchester in a Weatherby Vangard. I found out that it shoots pretty good around 1" with alot of loads but nothing great but after the 20 rounds or so it takes about 2 hours to clean this sucker my other rifles and handguns have never had this problem. I was hopeing to get a few words of help for my cleaning chores. By the way I'm using Sweet's, Barnes cr, Shooter's choice, and a little JB's. They all seem to be the same with this copper coated barrel.

H...E...L...P

MC - You might want to step up to Montana X-Treme. Works quicker than Sweets, but is stabilized so that you can soak the bore for hours if necessary. It is also a good powder solvent so I run a nylon brush through the bore followed by a few patches. Then a few solvent patches and let sit. Come back in an hour and patch out the copper.

Remember, do not use a bronze brush with ammonia based solvents. Stick to bore mops, patches, and nylon brushes. Make sure you finish with a non-teflon based oil. I use Butch's gun oil for storage. You can get Montana X-Treme at Sinclair.

Also, what bullets are you shooting?

I've switched to Wipe Out lately. Before I was into all the above mentioned but mostly Barnes CR10. The Wipe Out is much easier to use and does a better job. In case you're not familiar with it, it comes in a spray can and is a foaming type product. Just shake the can, put the applicator to the muzzle, spray for about 1 second, NO MORE!, immediately take the can down and cover the muzzle with your finger, watch the open chamber and when you first see the foam, take your finger off. This will stop the expansion into the chamber. Have a rag under the muzzle and a little of the foam will come out until the foam stiffens up enough to hold it's place. Now your barrel is filled top to bottom with cleaner. Set it aside for 30 minutes, 2 hours, or overnight - go do something else (I've got one cleaning right now). Run a patch through and it will push out the wipe out which is liquid by now and a lot of blue which indicates dissolved copper.

Do it 3 or 4 times. The actual cleaning part takes very little time and the wipe out works for you while you read the forums.

You may want to try lapping your barrel. Sounds like you might have a rough finish. There's a number of products out there that will help smooth out the rifling, which may be chewing up your copper.

Thanks you very much I will give each of these products a try. I hope they are less time consuming than what I use now.
Is 1" a respectible group size out of this rifle. I've played with these hand guns and smaller rifles to much I guess there groups are twice that good.
Thanks again..

Hello,
Sounds to me that the barrel needs a good breaking in period at the range. Do all of the cleaning, solvents, etc. as suggested above, and then go to the range, take about 35 rounds or so with you and shoot and clean for 20 rounds. I mean use a good solvent, Shooters Choice, GM Top Engine Cleaner, Hoppes, etc., whatever seems to work for at this stage we are trying to "rebirth..." the barrel. Three wet patches, let soak 10 minutes, brush w/ patch wrapped around, wipe bore dry, breech to muzzle only, no pulling back through, and again, do this for twenty times. Don't worry about hitting a target, just shoot safely down range, and after this tedious exercise, go to stage of 5 shots, and then clean. Wrap clean patch around brush, coat with JB compound, scrub first third of bore back and forth anywhere from 10-15 times. Most of your copper is coming from rough throat- -early bore sections and this is the area you are trying to burnish. Now if you wish you can shoot for groups,score, etc., but do this stage 3 times for a total of 15 and then you have shot a grand total of 35 rounds and done a whole lot of cleaning. This should smooth out the roughness of the throat, bore of the rifle and greatly lessen the copper build up. Doubt you will ever eliminate all copper build up now, but should greatly help.
In the event this does not help, do the old fashioned way and use bore mop, wet with water, put Soft Scrub liquid on and scrub the hell out of the bore. Messy but it will clean and polish the bore. You are not going to ruin the bore but afterwards, dry patch and apply oil to protect raw steel. If you can find it, Bon Ami cleaner was used for years to scrub stubborn bores of match rifles w/ hot water. Good Luck
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dsiteman

Copper fouling after 20 rounds that takes hours to remove? I am sure that you are not using a hard brass brush while using Sweets.

If you can find someone with a borescope, you might be able to get a fix on the culprit. In the meantime, it sounds like you need to move beyond the chemicals.

I would get Outers Foul Out system. It is an electrochemical based cleaning system. http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/243419 After that, I would go with bore lapping / polishing if the problem continued. http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/513887

If there is a severe fouling problem or worse a roughened bore, then this should bring down your group size. If you can keep the groups under 1" at 100 yards, that should be reasonable.

One of my elk hunting buddies has a Mod70,300win. His accuracy goes to pot after 5-6 rounds. I'm not exagerating.He hsa to clean it that often. My Ruger 77 in 300 win. shooting barnes TSX will hold good for 25 shots or so and does not take more than 15 min to clean toa pure white patch. I use Barnes bore cleaner and it strips the copper fast...P

As Woods said--wipeout is a fantastic product. Oh so ez to use. You mentioned in 20 rounds you have to clean the gun. Are you saying that because you see a significant loss of accuracy in 20 rounds or because you see the good old "orange streaks" after 20 rounds. If it's just copper streaks don't worry. I have many guns that show copper streaking after as little as 5 rounds but continue to shoot well for another 50 rounds ez. I like to shoot alot of 30 cal guns and bought myself a boresnake. I take it to the range for extended sessions and run the snake through 1 pass about every 10 rounds or when I switch a load recipe to try. It seems to help alot and also make clean up easier afterwards.

mrcasull ----- Buy a better barrel, with another rifle attached to it. Your dollars could have been better spent, if you are worried about pin point accuracy. Another $250 will go a long way.