The Ruger Hawkeye makes me feel ill.

Rugers advertising should read like this;

"Now that the Winchester M70 is no longer in production please purchase our pathetic immitation of one."

If I want a M70, I'll just buy a real one not a poorly done look-a-like.

And here I thought that the USRAC model 70 was a pathetic immitation of the pre 64 70s. I have a hard time being down on anyone that can make money selling guns these days.

I've always heard, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Im, not sure i follow you
The hawkey is mechanialy the same as the model 77MK2.
There are many differences when compared to the Model 70.
I can list a few, 1 the hawkey has a mat blue (my pre 64s have a mat reciever and a gloss blue barrel.) The bolt release on the Ruger is like a mauser not a Model 70, the saftey on the ruger is mounted on the reciver not the bolt. The angeld screw that holds the
floor plate to the reciever also positions the barreld action in the stock.is origional And the ruger scope mounting system is not to be found on the model 70.
I love the model 70, but I would describe the ruger more as a hybrid of the Model 70 and the mauser with several inovative features.

Personaly I like the looks of the hawkeye, and while its not a model 70 the MK2 Ruger (at least the one I own is an excelent hunting rifle. ...tj3006

using the term M-70 and Ruger in the same sentence is pure out and out blasphemy!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
using the term M-70 and Ruger in the same sentence is pure out and out blasphemy!

Truer words were never spoken,
and so it is written in the anus of time.

Barstooler

The Ruger is probably as good as the later M70's and has a better scope mounting system. It's a good rough use rifle and actually the stocks fit me better than a Win., but that will be different for others.

All my Rugers are built to a WAY HIGHER quality standard than my last M70 bought the day they announced that production of the M70s would cease. There is a reason that Ruger is still going strong & the M70 is dead.......Junk is junk no matter what the legend may have been.

My older M70 are all nice rifles. Just as my Mark II 77s are.

Ruger has been a successful firm for many years because they manufactured and offered at an affordable price (mostly) exactly what their customers wanted. I also like their customer focus and that they come up once in a while with some great new product innovations.

Let's hope they stay around for many more years to come and do not fall prey to some private equity vultures.

I think the Hawkeye will sell very well, though I don't need one I may buy one. It would be good to see that model offered in several calibers.

As for quality, I like the M70 Classic and of course the Pre'64's but those Classics wern't automatically a good rifle. I have one that shoot's consistantly but the action is out of spec. I've yet to have issues with a Ruger. I have yet to find one that can't be made to shoot. Just don't spread it around much........it will drive up the cost of the used ones. Nate

I absolutely adore my M70 featherweight and Safari, but I adore my Hawkeye as well. I would like to see the full stocked mkII International changed over to the Hawkeye w/ a full length stock done slim and nice like the "African". This in 257Roberts would be a must have for me.

GVA

Lock up the check book. I just saw this on Ruger's web sight. .257 Roberts

Now if they'd offer it with irons! Nate

DUK

When I was in Namibia, my PH almost died when I told him I paid $400 for my 7x57 Ruger MKII. He liked the Mauser type extractor, and of course the price and the fact it hammered game even though it looks like it has been through a big battle.

Not sure why somebody would think it's a replica? They are far more different than similiar.

I just love these arguments that "ABC is the only rifle wort owning" or "XYZ rifles are junk". I have personally owned, reloaded for and shot extensively as well as hunted with the following bolt actions from the big 3 American makers:

Winchester pre-64 M70
.30-06

Winchester M70 Classics
.338 stainless/synthetic
.338 Supergrade
.375 H&H Safari
.264 Sporter

Ruger M77
.308 Ultra light tang safety
.338 tang safety
.338 MKII satinless/synthetic
.416 Rigby
.458 tang safety

Remington M700
22-250 BDL
.338 Sendero
.30-06 Classic
7x57 Classic
.25-06 Classic
.257 Mountain Rifle

Many of you may mave more experience than I, and this may not be big enough of a sample size to be scientific, but I do not see a big difference in quality, fit and finish, or accuracy between brands.

Here are my experiences:
1. None of the Winchesters shot well out of the box (even with extensive load experimentation), but shot OK to outstanding after bedding, trigger work, blueprinting, etc.
2. Most of the Rugers all shot very well with just trigger work. The .308 required a bedding job with a lot of fore end pressure. The ss .338 never did shoot well.
3. The Remingtons shot OK out of the box. With trigger work, bedding and/or blueprinting, some shot extremely well. The Sendero and Mountain Rifle only showed a little improvement.

Bottom line: none of the brands really stood out head and shoulder over the others, either in looks or performance, from the others. The one exception: that really butt-ugly ss/synthetic Ruger. I sold it because I couldn't stand to look at it!

My advice on guns from the big 3: buy the guns that appeal to you in looks and features. Expect it to need gunsmithing to get top performance.

PS: I handled a .375 Hawkeye African at the local gun shop this week. I like it better than my .416 Rigby. Lighter and much better balance. If they come out with a 9.3x62 I think I would have to break out my wallet.

I've used M70's all my life and they are still my favorite rifle. I stopped by the gunstore last week and saw my first Ruger Hawkeye. It was a 7mm-08 and it now resides in my gunsafe. What a neat little gun.

My first two Rugers wher the boat paddle variety a .222 and 30/06 they never shot that great so I got rid of them, the Ruger I have now is a keeper it's a Stainless laminate .338 win mag and will shoot 225 gr woodleigh protected points under 1"at 100 yards (thats as good as I can shoot a .338 win mag). I like Ruger guns as there tough, a Ruger feels better to me than a twice the price sako but I love the Mauser styled action.

Winchester was not good enough to stay in business. I looked at a new Ruger Hawkeye 270 a couple days ago, Winchester wishes they could build a rifle like that.

rugers is a cold hammerforged bbl, control round feed, claw extractor, 3 position safety with current repair and customer service capability.
sounds like its BETTER then a winchester to me.

I have 2 rugers and 4 winchesters. They are all good rifles. Only one of my winchesters is a pre 64. I have 3 classics and my Wood stock blue steel 7mm STW will shoot as well as most any varmint rifle for about 5 rounds till it gets to hot.
both my Rugers, a MK2 ultra light in .257 Roberts and a #1A in 7x57 are both well under MOA with hand loads...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
Ruger has been a successful firm for many years because they manufactured and offered at an affordable price (mostly) exactly what their customers wanted. I also like their customer focus and that they come up once in a while with some great new product innovations.

Let's hope they stay around for many more years to come and do not fall prey to some private equity vultures.

Amen.
I only own two Ruger centnterfire rifles, plus a bunch of Rimfires. I'm having a tough time coming up with the origial poster's "take" that the Hawkeye in a pathetic example of a Win Model 70. That be a stretch.
My only Ruger bolt centerfire is a MkII in 257 Roberts. The very first group I shot out of the rifle after zeroing it measured 9/16" at 100 yards, shot with a 4x scope. The rifle looks good to me, and I personally like it. The price on it was right too; I bought it new last Oct. Mine is not the Hawkeye model, but as soon as my store stocks the Hawkeye, I'll be buying one. I like the Hawkeye looks, and it's new trigger.
My story, and I ain't changing it..

Don

All bow at the altar of the M70.

Like blind faith the Dogma of Winchester decrees that no oher rifles compare even if they are better designed and made.

If they look like an M70 they are poor imitations, if they look different then they are poorly designed.

The M70 is dead, let it rest in peace.

quote:

Originally posted by Iron Buck:
All my Rugers are built to a WAY HIGHER quality standard than my last M70 bought the day they announced that production of the M70s would cease. There is a reason that Ruger is still going strong & the M70 is dead.......Junk is junk no matter what the legend may have been.

My older M70 are all nice rifles. Just as my Mark II 77s are.

True!

I've owned only two M70 Wins., both pre-64's One was a Featherweight in .308, and the other a Super Grade in .375 H&H. Boith shot very well. As for Rugers, I have only had one M77, a 7X57mm "Round-top". It is quite accurate right out of the box. The rest of my Ruger rifles have been No. 1's, plus a No. 3 in .30/40 Krag. ALL these would shoot 1 MOA or less right out of the box, but I've never fired one round of factory ammo in any of them. However, several gave 1 MOA or less with ammo that was not yet worked up for any of them individually - I just loaded what sounded good, and shot them with that ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
All bow at the altar of the M70.

Like blind faith the Dogma of Winchester decrees that no oher rifles compare even if they are better designed and made.

If they look like an M70 they are poor imitations, if they look different then they are poorly designed.

The M70 is dead, let it rest in peace.

A hearty AMEN to and for the M70.

The M70 is not being produced at this time because of poor business management not because it is a poor design.

Something like Remington being 250+ million dollars in debt before they were bought.

I put my money where my mouth is.

Just bought a NIB Winchester Ultimate Shadow in .300 WSM on Friday. Passed on the Hawkeye.

If others do not want M70s - that is a good thing. It just means that I will be able to buy more at a lower price.


"Iron Buck" I have a gunsafe full of Winchester "junk" that will all shoot less than an inch at 100 yards and a couple that will do that at 200 yards. A pre-64, couple of pushfeeds, and 3 classics. All with factory barrels.

Did they shoot that way out-of-the-box? No.
All they needed was some tuning and the right handload.

I can get almost any M70 to shoot that good with a week of tinkering with the rifle and loads.

I haven't been able to do that with other makes including Weatherby, Savage and Ruger.

As the old saying goes; one man's junk is another man's treasure.

"Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder."

The ultimate shadow hardly represents the Winchester that made it's name.

Get a real model 70.

If it were not for the 10/22 and Single action pistols, Ruger would have flopped many years ago



Reloader

well-got to jump in this one. In my hobby of "accuracy workups", I've only encountered a single rifle that wouldn't make the magical 1" mark at 100 yds for 3 shots. Yes, I said 3 shots, as these are all hunting rifles. I've worked up a ton of M70s, M700, bunch of Rugers, one M721, bunch of Savages, one M336, one Sako, and the only two that couldn't cut the mustard were a M700 in 7-08 with a Shilen barrel and my own M77 LH .270. The 700 was trued and bedded, rebedded, skim bedded, recrowned, 1/4" cut off the barrel and rethreaded and rechambered, and the best I could do was 3/8" groups with 160 gr Nosler Partitions on an every other day basis. Same brass, same load, and one day it shot 3/8" and the next day it shot 1 3/8". The 'smith finally told me to quit -- wasn't worth it.

The 77 was bedded and had a trigger job, but I got fed up and sold it before I got into the crown, etc, as I decided I didn't like LH rifles after all. It was a "4 in one hole and one somewhere else" shooter, and I didn't like that.

So, in my experience, they'll just about all shoot if you put the work into them--both by the 'smith and at the reloading bench.

I never liked the safety system on these Rugers.
Awkward to use compared to the Model 70 3 position safety IMO.
Ruger's mid-position point is it's weak link also,as it only locks the trigger & not the striker as does the GREAT Model 70.

And why the hell didn't Ruger change the trigger setup to that of the Model 70?
Surely in this newly designed Hawkeye they could of used the simplest most straight forward trigger that was designed = MODEL 70.
Patents last 15 as my memory recalls,so this leaves open the door for copy one would think.

And this is just not with Ruger,Kimber are also guilty of this.
My 8400 Kimber a damn fine rifle that I wont part with,but why didn't they just copy Model 70's trigger design from the start?
Sure Kimber trigger works great & has given trouble free use.It's just the Model 70 BASIC design trigger system is the BEST/SIMPLE in the business IMO.
So why is it not copied more I ask?????

Off the top of my head Dakota & MRC are the only companies that have exact or very close to the mark copies of the PROVEN Model 70 design.

I could live with the current Ruger trigger but I'm not a fan of there safety setup.

Just my 2cents .

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
The ultimate shadow hardly represents the Winchester that made it's name.

Get a real model 70.

I agree.

The pre-64 is the real M70, and I already have one of those in .270, which I've had for many years.

At the current prices for pre-64's I just can't afford to own a bunch of safe queens.

I need to purchase rifles that I can actually use, thus the Ultimate Shadow.

If more people had spent their money on Winchesters new products instead of just bitching about them and wishing for the "good old days" we probably wouldn't be discussing their demise.

I did my part. I now have 5 post-64 Winchesters. I've always bought their rifles even when others said they were garbage.

I break wind in your general direction.

One of my favorites is my pre-64 .270 I recently bought a wood hawkeye in 257 roberts. It's a nice little rifle and more importantly the only .257 I could find.

I love my M70s, but the new Ruger Hawkeye's are pretty good rifles! I believe they are even better than the last production rifles that rolled out of the Winchester plant.

I will take a Model 70 Safety and trigger over a Ruger equivalent any day.

However I am sure the new Hawkeye is a good rifle - particularly for the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:


If it were not for the 10/22 and Single action pistols, Ruger would have flopped many years ago



Reloader

You're absolutely right "RL", except you need to add the M77, #1, & Red Label. If it wasn't for those fine, well designed & built guns, Ruger would probably have gone the way of Winchester, many years ago.

If the Hawkeye had the Winchester 70 Safety and Trigger that would probably be the only rifle(s) I would own.