Looking for some help... Found a Remington Model 700 BDL LH in 270 (actually two) at the local shop. When the safety is in the "safe" position, the bolt is locked. I didn't know if this was normal as my 243 M700 that I sold last year did not do this. I like that feature if it is a "feature" and is not a problem.

Anyone have any insight on this? Thanks.

The older M700 safety functioned that way. They changed it. In the old mode you had to remove the gun from safe to unload the ammo for sure in an ADL and for people that removed via the bolt on the BDL. The older MKXs worked the same way. They were changed as well.

I prefer being able to remove the ammo with the gun still on safe. A couple minutes with a dremel tool makes the old style work like the new. It is simply a tab that was removed in later models.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
The older M700 safety functioned that way. They changed it. In the old mode you had to remove the gun from safe to unload the ammo for sure in an ADL and for people that removed via the bolt on the BDL.

The big problem with the 700s that do not lock the bolt is that if you are carrying the rifle on a sling with a round in the chamber you will find the bolt open about half the time. The bolt handle will catch on your belt, suspenders or brush. I have lost ammo due to the bolt opening. Some time ago I read on this forum about someone losing a bolt!

It's a sorry excuse for a safety that does not lock the bolt.

Regards, Keith

The bolt lock safety notch machine cut in the bolt body under the handle was omitted w/ D through present G prefix serial numbered receivers.
Two safety knob profiles were produced-a flat rectangular shape & the round.

Hate to argue with Keiths point, but I have hunted extensively with many Rem 700s since 1974 and had them converted to not lock the bolt. Have never had the bolt open accidentially.

I guess everyone has their own preference, but I own both and greatly prefer the older models that lock the bolt. No worry about the bolt handle being raised while carrying the gun. I bought a 375 H&H classic model that still had the machine cut on the underside of the bolt. A gunsmith was able to convert it back to the lock down style in a few minutes.

I never had a problem with unloading the gun while keeping my finger off the trigger and having the gun pointed in a safe direction.

I'd call it a matter of personal preference.

Never hunted that much with a 700. However the older MKX were made the same as the older 700 in that they locked the bolt. I never had an issue with the old style until I picked up a couple with the new. I'm slowly converting my old to new. I've never had an issue with the bolt coming open while being carried. Since I carry it without a round in the chamber it would make no difference anyway.

My buddy did have his 700 fire when he took the safety off to unload. Probably combination of having pulled the trigger while on safe, sear and pull set to light and dirty. Yes I know it shouldn't have fired. But he could have unloaded with the new safety and it wouldn't have been an issue. He did change his out.

The Rem bashers all like to use that silly bolt opening by accident story. Put a gauge on a bolt and try to open it to see how much force it takes to open it. They don't open accidentally.

Bullshit, Dwight!!!! My bro-in-law's uncle's buddy's father overheard a guy talking about it in a bar. You can't ask for more proof than that.
BTW, he'd also had 14 Remingtons that the bolt fell off of.

quote:

The Rem bashers all like to use that silly bolt opening by accident story. Put a gauge on a bolt and try to open it to see how much force it takes to open it. They don't open accidentally.

Sure they do if carried cocked.
Sling it over your shoulder and walk a couple of miles through brush. You will either find your bolt half opened or completely open and against the bolt stop.
Of course if your bolt stop is sticking you will find you have NO BOLT AT ALL.

I have owned M700s since the late 1960s and I can demonstrate this and document it any time you like.

quote:

Sure they do if carried cocked.

Why in the world would someone walk with a cocked loaded rifle hung from theri shoulder walking through the brush?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Sure they do if carried cocked.

Why in the world would someone walk with a cocked loaded rifle hung from theri shoulder walking through the brush?

Ramrod,
I suppose you carry yours uncocked and unloaded all the time......

quote:

Ramrod,
I suppose you carry yours uncocked and unloaded all the time......

If it is hung from the sling on my shoulder yes uncocked no round in the chamber. If I have to remove the rifle from ny shoulder swing it foward and up it takes no longer to work the bolt.

If I have the rifle in both hands in front of me so I can control it like turn a stalk or slow hunting through the timber often it is loaded on safe.

Almost 40 years ago my first time deer hunting with others a guy in our group had his rifle hanging from his shoulder loaded. He put his hand back to check something along his waist or lower pack next thing we hear is his rifle going off pointed staight up in the air. Our GUESS is the brush had knocked it off safe and he bumped the trigger.

I know people carry them that way. I simply can't see a reason. For it me doesn't slow me down to chamber a round if the rifle was hanging from my shoulder anyway. I also don't aggree with carrying one in the chamber uncocked. Many rifles will still fire if the rear of the bolt is struck.

My question was worded far more negative than intended. I was more curious why people felt the need to carry their rifle that way.

If I stepped on anyones toes I applogize.

FWIW.....I carry my rifle on a sling over my shoulder and the chamber empty but the bolt closed if I'm hunting with someone and if I'm hunting alone, the chamber is loaded and the safety is on.

My clothes have at times grabbed the M-70 style safety and moved it to fire while carried on a sling over the shoulder.

To have an accidental movement of the safety lever to fire while walking a mountain trail with several other hunters is simply not anything I'm willing to risk.....ain't no elk worth it.

Rarely do I carry my rifle at sling arms but the mechanics of the bolt being flipped open by a stick are hard to reconcile.
When you carry your rifle at sling arms, you usually have to keep your hand wrapped around the sling to keep it from sliding off of your shoulder. This will put this really neat arm and elbow protecting the bolt handle. If a stick can push between your elbow and the rifle and flip the bolt open, without you knowing it, you've got to be pretty obtuse.

I've walked a hell of a lot more than a couple of miles with a myriad of 700s of both types and have never had it happen. I'm not saying it absolutely couldn't/wouldn't happen but if you sit around and angst over stuff like this, you need a life.

If I'm carrying my rifle at sling arms and come to some brush, I wrap my hand around the bolt handle and wrist and swing the butt of the rifle forward. I can then thread the butt of the rifle through the brush and the muzzle is below my shoulder so it won't hang up.

Maybe Myth Busters ought to take a look at this. They've taken up some stuff that was a lot sillier.

I've never owned a remington M700 but did have an older ruger M77 tang safety that wouldn't lock the bolt with the safety on. On that rifle I had the bolt come open several times by catching on brush as I was walking with it slung over my shoulder. If it can happen with a M77 ruger then I'm sure it'll happen just as easily with a remington M700. All it resulted in was a lost round, but it wasn't a comfortable feeling. Any more I don't want a rifle that won't lock the bolt, I'm not worried about unloading the rifle with the safety off, point it in a safe direction, keep your finger off the trigger and there's nothing to worry about. It's a solution to a non-existent problem.

As for the hunting with a chambered round, it's an argument that'll never be settled between the eastern hunters and the western. I put a round in the chamber as soon as I get out of the truck or off the ATV, the only time it gets taken out is going up or down to a tree stand. Everyone else I know does the same as me, no one walks around with an unloaded rifle because the chances of jumping a deer on the way to your stand are great. Your only shot will be a running one and you don't have time to load your rifle. I've shot probably 20 deer that I would never have gotten if I'd been hunting without a round in the chamber. Out west the hunting is very different, mostly the glass and stalk variety. You've got time to chamber a round for your 300 yd shot, it's not that way around here. The safety argument is B.S., I've never heard of an accident because of hunting with a loaded rifle, the only accidents you hear of around here are guys misidentifying their targets. If a loaded gun is so unsafe then the tens of thousands of police officers and guys carrying concealed who walk around with chambered pistols would be accidentally killing people every day.

That was the whole point of me selling my 243 Win M700. The bolt kept coming open when out coyote hunting and the rifle slung over my shoulder in different ways to keep the bolt from opening. Went to Model 70s and Sako AVs. Saw this M700 with the lock the other day and was wondering if that was how they were made a while back.

Thanks for all of your good responses.

quote:

If a stick can push between your elbow and the rifle and flip the bolt open, without you knowing it, you've got to be pretty obtuse.

Beeman,
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
An M700 carried over my shoulder has the bolt handle 4 inches below my elbow.
Keep exercising your imagination. The bolt opening is real.

Sako, and the Vanguard, Tikka, and many others, as I recall, lock the bolt down with the safety engaged. I have never seen any debate or opining about this topic regarding those rifles.

Why is it so with the 700? It's clear to me that after all those attorney fees and settlements endured by Rem, they simply took another cheap way to a supposed solution to a problem. It's like saying that all those accidental discharges had nothing to do with the sorry mechanism, but the guy pulling the trigger is the entire problem, which is bullchit. The whole trigger/safety arrangment with Rem was flawed from the get-go, and they just patched it when they modified it so the safety doesn't lock the bolt down. There is no excuse in it at all except lawyers and corporate profits. It has little to do with looking out for the customer.

That statment is said like a fact, rather than opinion, because the evidence is there to support it, much more than mere opinion.

Here's an example of opinion: I think that the Rem 700 should be classed within the top ten worlds most dangerous products, and they should all be recalled and made right, by court order. I know there are those who argue that the 700 is dangerous to the bad guys - in the hands of military snipers and law enforcment, but that's a different story compared to sporting or hunting use - different training and situation, and generally not the same rifle as left the factory.

I agree with ramrod. The only safe way to carry a Remington 700 is with an empty chamber.

KB

I have owned Remingtons for a long time. I think that I bought the first one in 1970 and still own it as its an excellent rifle. Sometimes around the mid 1990s I got another 30/06 not thinking about the locked bolt and immidately experienced the "open bolt" problem. On my rifle the solution was to buy an old type safety from Numrich Arms and install it, a simple solution. My rifle still had the machining done to the action and bolt like the originals. On the newer rifles the cuts have not been made and the old type safety can not be installed.

And no I am not a Remington "basher" as I own 6 of them but facts are facts.

I carry a Remington almost ever day on my daily walks.

Regards, Keith
Semper Fi

I don't think of myself as a Remington Basher either. Heck, it's not all about Remington anyway. They have made and sold several other center fire rifles that are cheap, and junk, and they still sold, and some I read are accurate. I don't even keep up with their latest, since I'm not in their market.

Why blame or bash Remington? Without customers, they would do something different, perhaps copy what a competitor is doing, only cheaper made, or perhaps get a really good idea and start selling Mausers. People buy the stuff they make and rationalize it. Heck, I read that some guys even convert all their rifles so the safety doesn't lock the bolt down, like it's a good idea or something.

It's all about marketing, and what the market will stand for, and making a profit. The alternative to simply changing the safety the way they did, would be too expensive on the bottom line, and something needed to change, if only for show. It amazes me what some will accept. I'm sure that Remington would package ignorance, which is in abundant supply, and sell it for a profit, if they could figure a way. And I'm sure there's a market for it too. Oh wait - - they did that already, with the 700.

KB

Very strange. Why have I only heard of this in cyberspace? But then, in cyberspace one can take whatever flight of fancy he chooses.

There are a lot of things we can find out about now in cyberspace. Just google it. Fancying whatever a person wants was with us long before cyberspace. I don't remember the key words to do an internet info search, so choose whatever you want, if you are really interested in facts over fancy. I have no interest in doing it again.

I wonder why there's an overload of safety and accidental discharge, and court cases relating to accidental injury and death, and other info relating to the Rem 700, and so little on other brands, such a Sako, etc. It a mystery to me as to why it's a mystery to 700 owners. Must be something kin to denial.

KB

I have no opinion on 700's, but I do prefer the bolt to be locked with the safety on. Its probably only in my mind, but I like being able to test the bolt and know that the safety is still on. I can try the bolt with the rifle slung. I don't think I have ever found the safety off unintentionally, but I check it a bunch.

bja105,
The only rifle that I have found the safety off unintionaly is an old Ruger with the safety on the tang. I have never had that kind of problem with a Remington, only the open bolt.

Regards, Keith
Semper Fi

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Very strange. Why have I only heard of this in cyberspace? But then, in cyberspace one can take whatever flight of fancy he chooses.

Excellent point! Just time for the traditional "monthly" Remington bashing.

For those of you concerned about the Bolt Opening as you low crawl throung the shin tangle or Klutz your way through the higher stuff, "if" you P-FLR your Cases, the Bolt WILL NOT Open without you noticing it.
-----

As to the post where the Bolt "Fell Out", then the Bolt Retainer was/is:
1. Worn to the point it should have been noticed during cleaning.
2. Broken.
3. Trash had it Jammed and should have been easy to see, once the problem was noticed.

However, due to the specific location of the Bolt Release being inside the Trigger Guard near the front and flush with the Trigger Housing, I do not believe this happened on a Remington, unless something is broken.

Surely the bolt falling out thingy is a rare incident, for the reasons mentioned. Finding the bolt unintentionally open, perhaps not so rare.

When it comes to the bolt remaining closed, the safety on, the trigger blocked, until I want it open, off, or ready, respectively, all in proper working order, together, that's something I don't want associated with the words "if", "should have", "unless", and other conditional words relating to circumstance or maybe. I would rather closer to a sure thing.

Should you like, or don't mind, the words "if", "should have", "unless", etc. get a Remington. If you don't like such words, in relation to the rifle you tote, get a Mauser.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Surely the bolt falling out thingy is a rare incident, for the reasons mentioned. Finding the bolt unintentionally open, perhaps not so rare.

When it comes to the bolt remaining closed, the safety on, the trigger blocked, until I want it open, off, or ready, respectively, all in proper working order, together, that's something I don't want associated with the words "if", "should have", "unless", and other conditional words relating to circumstance or maybe. I would rather closer to a sure thing.

Should you like, or don't mind, the words "if", "should have", "unless", etc. get a Remington. If you don't like such words, in relation to the rifle you tote, get a Mauser.

KB

You are just rambling now without thinking.

Few center fire bolt guns actually block the trigger when the safety is engaged.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Few center fire bolt guns actually block the trigger when the safety is engaged.

What? Only one exception? Usually Rem fans can come up with at least 20 reasons, rationalizing their beloved 700 is acceptable, despite the equally long list of reasons it's not acceptable.

I was merely trying to say that I prefer for the safety to operate like the Mauser and the Winchester three-position type safety. I think that's referred to as blocking the firing pin from falling. I was not necessarily saying that blocking the trigger instead is a flaw big enough, stand alone, to reject a firearm. I happen to like CZ 550s, and the three position factory safety on some of them. I think that safety just blocks the trigger, not the firing pin, but the offsetting feature of three-position makes it acceptable. Whether two or three-position, the CZ safety locks the bolt down, which is another feature on the plus side when selecting a rifle.

KB

I don't mean to offend anyoone nor start a fight.... just stating my experiences with all 3 of my rem700 rifles.
1984 rem 700 mountain rifle - 280rem
19xx rem 700 bdl 7mm mag
2009 rem700 xcr 300wm
By far the most carry/hunting experience has been with the 280. Shot alot of deer, made some incredible shots. hundreds of miles driving deer in the nastiest stuff u would ever not want to walk thru and have NEVER had an issue with my bolt coming open, never lost a round, never had an unintentional discharge,
I carry loaded and safetied once out of or off a vehicle.
I have harvested too many deer snap shooting, in fact nowadays it seems like the only shot we get around here anymore. If you make your shot u have venison, u miss your done go home empty .

i dont care if i offend anyone the remington has a good positive saftey way harder to move than most others, and i like the new ones a lot better since the gun is probsbly packed full of leaves and crap after a while in the crapholes i hunt i can unload it without worrying about touching it off.
if you can get the bolt opened by accident you can get the safteyoff by accident too
if you are really having that kind of problem its ewe not the gun your carrying
figure it out