Th 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schönauer generally fires a 160 grain bullet at arouns 2230 fps.

Apparently the rouns as standard does not deliver teh 1700 ft/lbs energy stipulation for shooting deer in England under the current Deer Act.

Has anyone loaded these to get the required energy by experimenting with powder and bullet weight?

You could load a 140 grain bullet to higher velocity and energy.
Trouble with a lot of regulations is they do not take into account penetration or barrel length.

The Mannlicher 160 grn load will out penetrate many modern high energy rounds. With a long barrel it might meet the energy requirements too.

Before going down that route what barrel length is the rifle you intend to use the factory rounds in? It may be that if you put your rifle over a chronograph that it might just squeeze past that ft/bs requirement.

Where in the UK are you? A visit to the Birmigham Proof House to have your rifle and ammunition OFFICIALLY chronographed might be worth a thought?

If it passes? Then just carry that Proof Report from the Proof House with your documents.

This from the RWS website:

6.5 x 54 Mann.Sch. Bullet: TMR 10.3 g
Distance: 0m
Muzzle Velocity V[m/s]: 670 m/s
Muzzle Energy E[J]: 2312 joules

BC value: 0.315 Test barrel length: 450 mm

So the Deer Act specifies 2,305 joules muzzle energy. It seems to me that this RWS load, in a 450mm (SEVENTEEN INCHES) barrel just makes it.

Most M-S rifles are what? 20" plus? I can't remember what it was on the 1903 Model I had I think 23.50"?

If you've got one of those stupid silly carbines with a sub 18" barrel and a full length stock. Hmm! That may be a problem. But still OK if RWS are correct in their figures.

You should be OK as far as I read it. 10.3 grams is effectively 159 grains.

Go RWS!

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/...ic_data.htm?navid=10

Try this: 155grs Lapua Mega, 39 grs N550, result 745m/sek in a pressure tested load in a 55cm test-barrel!

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.

I'm afraid it is one of those 'silly' short carbines with full length stock - circa 1925 and retailled by Daniel Fraser. I just like them.

I'm a North American 6.5x54mm nut, and here are the velocities I get with assorted 156 grain class bullets out of a M1903 M-S carbine and a MCA carbine. The 156 gr. RWS bullets blow thru Axis, Whitetail, and Fallow deer
Results via chronograph
156 RWS H-Mantle - 2360 feet per second (37.5gr N203)
156 Norma Vulkan - 2375 fps (37.5gr N203)
160 Hornaday RN - 2270 fps (39gr N204)

139 Norma SPBT - 2535 fps (38.0 gr N203)
140 Hornaday SP - 2490 fps (37.9 gr N203)

I need to continue test with N-204 and RL series powders which appear to be the same as certain Norma products. If I could maintain a reliable supply of Norma powder here I would stay with it.

Scottish law as well as stipulating a minimum energy requirement also mandates a minimum of 2,400fps MV. I'm not too clear but I think the police have lists of calibres and velocities achieved with factory loads for the common bullet weights. The 6.5x54MS is well known as not being legal with 160s but legal with 140s.

I remember reading an article in Shooting Times where it was said that the round with 160s had a reputation for wounding due to the loopy trajectory. Not my view (I don't have any experience of it) but something that's out there.

This is becoming an interesting post. I cannot believe that Scottish deer are so armor plated, so I can only assume that the dictum against the 6.5x54mm has to be because of poor shooting. I'll admit that I took my first deer with a 6.5x54mm in 1984 with 139 grain Norma SPBT slugs, then graduated to the 156-160 grain class when I discovered they were more accurate in my M1903s. I realize that you cannot readily fight the government over a topic such as this one, because the situation is probably too deeply buried in the bureaucracy, however, the original reputation of the 6.5x54mm was made by killing Elephants with 160 grain class FMJ bullets. I suspect the same bureaucrats have never read the many accounts of that sort of hunting, done by Englishmen, before and during the WWI period.

Meanwhile, I plan to continue to use the Norma 156 grain and Hornaday 160 grain bullets in the loads for my three 6.5x54mms when I run out of 156 grain RWS H-Mantles.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Scottish law as well as stipulating a minimum energy requirement also mandates a minimum of 2,400fps MV. I'm not too clear but I think the police have lists of calibres and velocities achieved with factory loads for the common bullet weights. The 6.5x54MS is well known as not being legal with 160s but legal with 140s.

I remember reading an article in Shooting Times where it was said that the round with 160s had a reputation for wounding due to the loopy trajectory. Not my view (I don't have any experience of it) but something that's out there.

The Scots have one weird set of laws. No wonder my family left or got ran out.
So now the burning question is - are 140 grain spitzers legal while 140 grain RN bullets are not?