Can any of the various early models (1903, 1905, 1908, 1910 etc)be fitted with a scope mount? I have seen photos of 1903's with a scope mounted in a side mount but can this be done without modification/ruining collector value?

Thanks for any info you can give.

Cheers.

GG

yes...they can be fitted with a scopemount!

Recknagel still makes scopemounts for Mannlicher schoenauers.

Whether it ruins the collectorvalue or not is a pickey question. Most of these models you find has been scopemounted from time to time so I would believe if you have one that has never been scopemounted..NEVER and the gun has it original factoryfinish.... yes it would destroy its collector value because it would be a very rare gun.

Thanks Jens

Appreciate the info.

Cheers.

GG

I'm no expert, just bought my first Mannlicher-Shoenauer. Mine has no scope mounts and I will not fit any on it. A Recknagel scope mount is very expensive, over $1000 I believe.

My Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1905:

CCCP, that is beautiful! Don't drill!

I am near finished sporterizing a 1903 Greek Mannlicher 6.5 that is gonna be real nice. A cheap way to get into a MS.

I got mine at an Ok price, around $640.

I've never handled or seen a MS rifle, but I understand that they are noted for having silky-smooth actions. Is that correct?

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I've never handled or seen a MS rifle, but I understand that they are noted for having silky-smooth actions. Is that correct?

Yes and no.

It's pretty hard to open the bolt handle compared to mauser 98s or a Remington 700, but once opened it's very very smooth, and the drum magazine is a mechanical wonder to behold.

quote:

Originally posted by CCCP:

It's pretty hard to open the bolt handle compared to mauser 98s or a Remington 700, but once opened it's very very smooth...

Do they cock on the opening or the closing of the bolt?

Half way on opening and the rest when closing I believe. But I'm no expert on rifles, I'm mostly interested in british shot guns.

Here's a website that has a lot of information on MS rifles:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/m-s_carbine.htm

Here's a website about the 6.5x54 MS in African use:

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/classcart/65x...er-schoenauer_01.htm

quote:

CCCP: I got mine at an Ok price, around $640.

I should say so! My Greek was $225 but doesn't compare to yours.

Griffin & Howe put many side mounts on Mannlichers. Around $700 I think but you can check their website.

I've had a couple and still have a 1950 '06 with the sidmount and they work well.

quote:

Originally posted by GG375:
Can any of the various early models (1903, 1905, 1908, 1910 etc)be fitted with a scope mount? I have seen photos of 1903's with a scope mounted in a side mount but can this be done without modification/ruining collector value?

Thanks for any info you can give.

Cheers.

GG

I am certainly no expert, but I sure love them! I regard them as the finest FACTORY PRODUCTION bolt action sporting rifle ever. Yes, there are some archaic features to the action design, but the fit, finish, weight and balance plus overall execution make up for any technical shortcomings. I believe Steyr would be well-advised to resurrect this piece (there is one custom maker still building them)! http://www.eschoder.com

To the best of my knowledge, all commercial M/S rifles can be fitted with a scope. And I believe the only model that requires a bolt handle alteration for use with a scope is the M1903 Greek military version......

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I've never handled or seen a MS rifle, but I understand that they are noted for having silky-smooth actions. Is that correct?

Yes, they are smooth-the commercial version had the action/bolt lapped in with diamond dust. The reason they are relatively hard to open initially is that the striker assembly is heavy, has a lot of inertia, a strong mainspring, and it has to be cammed back a considerable distance when you open the bolt - a very steep cam angle! These cock totally on the OPENING stroke, just like a Mauser. But the striker assembly of the M/S weighs much more than the Mauser's, and has a much steeper cam angle to overcome, so it takes about twice the effort to open it after firing.

When using a M/S for hunting, I try a little harder to make the first shot count-as if it were a single-shot rifle.

Sovietsky Soyuz, you'd pay over twice that cost if you bought it here!

I have owned a set or two of rings and bases for the 1903. They were made by some well known American company. I am thinking Redfield. I saw a pair for sale in the Gunlist awhile back for $100 or so bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have owned a set or two of rings and bases for the 1903. They were made by some well known American company. I am thinking Redfield. I saw a pair for sale in the Gunlist awhile back for $100 or so bucks.

There is a Redfield Jr. mount for the ones that have a drilled & tapped receiver ring, and the left side of the split receiver bridge is also drilled & tapped for the rear base which attaches just ahead and slightly above the bolt release. I have one of these mounts on my curerent M/S, and it is slightly unsatisfactory in that the head of the right windage screw tries to remove meat from my thumb every time I push a round down into the magazine. Except for this one little point, the mount is as good as any Redfiled Jr. type. I found I have to use a lot of loc-tite on Redfiled Jr. mounts to keep the windage screws from loosening up, since if you try to torque them up at all, the heads pop off.

I have used the Williams Gun Sight Company M/S base with their HCO rings on two M/S rifles. They are, as the Dutchman said, "nix for nice, but hellfor strong". Then there's the old Bausch & Lomb mount, that has the windage & elevation built in. I have one of these for the M/S, but have never tried it on a gun......... Supposedly, if you have one of these bases on every rifle you own, you can use one scope on all of them, because each mount is zeroed separately, and when you swap the scope from one rifle to the next, it is already zeroed for each gun by virtue of the zeroed base. Of course, Leupold made these mount bases primarily for use with their early scopes that didn't have internal adjustments.

Somebody at Watts Walnut makes a copy of the Redfield 2pc. bases for 145. + s&h. They look good but I have not used them. There has been positive feedback on Watts stock blanks on this forum.
Bob

I´ve owned a couple of Mannlichers and they are good guns if not great guns! But Boha started me on the M98 so I sold off my Mannlichers to finance new projects...

Every model of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer has been or can be scoped. "Standard" European practice before WWII was to use the "semi- custom" claw mount system , and that was about the extent of mount systems until Griffin & Howe brought out their side mount in 1932. Today I have several Mannlichers with scopes, including a neat little M1903 that dates from 1919 with an "original" Griffin & Howe mount that is as neat and as deadly a carbine as one may ask for. There is also a Jaeger side mount that is similar to the G&H, and another side mount sold by New England Custom Guns. Of the scope mounts available post WWII, Williams, Beuhler, G&H, Jaeger, Leupold, Pachmyr, Steyr, and Redfield, only the Steyr and the Redfield do not detract from the collector value of the M-S, because they were the mounts specifically designed for the M-S. The Steyr mount came out with the reintroduction of the M-S in 1951, and the Redfield arrived much later with the Model MCA-61. All post war Mannlicher-Schoenauers can carry these two mounts. The big drawback to the other mounts (except the G&H and Jaeger) is that they require assorted drilling and tapping of the receiver above the woodline that leaves unsightly holes when the mount is removed, plus, none of the other mounts are very aesthetically pleasing either. Post WWLL, Steyr allowed for the G&H style mount by providing a flat base on the left side of the receiver for the mount. Personally, I have favored the G&H for many years, followed by the Redfield and the Steyr.

If you want to go for real rarity in mounts, there is/was a pre WWII Steyr mount, plus Stoeger offered a side mount that appears to be the forerunner of the Jaeger mount. I've never seen either mount in the flesh, and their presence probably could enhance the value of a pre WWII model.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

quote:

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

Thanks for the detailed information!!

If you are looking at pre-war Mannlichers, and you want to scope it, then I think the claw mount would be the best option both because it will be the most appropriate for a MS pre-war rifle and because it will have the least effect on the (perhaps even a positive effect depending on installation quality) value of the firearm. Note that your scope will be mounted high to clear the wing safety. Another option is to consider the Lyman Model 36 bolt release peep sight or a cocking piece peep. I like the Griffin & Howe and Jaeger side mounts, but haven't seen many on pre-war MS. Also, many of the side mounts were improperly installed and the pins or bolts were drilled right through the bolt rail, rather than under it. They are truly wonderful rifles--I have one 1903 and 3 post-war MS--they are all very smooth. Also, someone asked -- they are cock on opening.

One more comment. The MS was specifically designed to accomodate a side mount. They had a removable metal plate on the side of the action where the side mount would go. So, I do think you could make the argument that it is a totally appropriate mount for the rifle. On a pre-war gun, anything but skillfully executed claw mounts or the ultra-rare pre-war factory mount mentioned by LLS probably adversely affects value. You might also look for a pre-war takedown with the pop-up peep...
As for post-war mounts, proper installation did not require screws visible above the wood line. I have an Abercrombie & Fitch marked MCA with a Griffin & Howe installed G&H mount, and the screws are not visible above the wood line or in the bolt raceway. Since G&H did work for A&F, I don't think the value is adversely impacted by the mount, but then again it's my carbine! Go for it, they are undervalued in my opinion.

Here is some more useless info:

The period mounts available for the 1903 thru 1910 were all custom. Some were clever and trim, some were abominations.

Between 1924 and WWII, production mounts such as the G&H side mount and standardized Suhler (claw) mounts became available.

From 1950 onward, all M-S rifles had the removeable sideplate to facilate a mount. If done properly, all screws and pins are hidden below the woodline. However, I have yet to see a sidemount that had a base as thin as the removeable sideplate. Inletting of the wood is still necessary.

Here is more info regarding individual post war models:

1950 and NO - Not drilled/tapped

1950 improved/1952/GK/MC - usually found only with rear holes for the Steyr or Claw mounts.

MCA/Magnums - usually found with holes in the front ring as well as the rear bridge.

As for the different mounts:

Steyr factory - Rugged and valuable. About as streamlined as a tank. Lots of sharp corners and edges. Allows use of iron sights.

G&H side mount - Accurate. Sharp edges. Allows iron sights.

Jaeger Side mount - Accurate. More streamlined than G&H. Allows irons.

Williams side mount - Cheap. Requires holes above the wood line.

Leupold side mount - Requires holes above the woodline. Easiest way to devalue an M-S rifle.

Bausch & Lomb - 2nd easiest way to devalue an M-S rifle.

EAW side mount - Rugged and accurate. Bulky on such a svelte rifle.

Pachmayr side mount - Cheap. Allows use of irons by flipping the scope to the side.

EAW top mount (swing away) - Accurate, allows use of most irons.

Redfield top mount - Cheap. Aesthetic attrocity. Does not allow use of irons. Rear peep model is to high for factory front bead.

Claw mounts - Absolutely the best, if done properly. Allows use of irons.


And now, what do GK, NO, MC and MCA stand for........