If you are looking to throw elk in the mix with the 500 yd deer hunting, I would suggest a 300 wby, a 300 ultramag or a 340 wby. I have used both of the wby cartridges for 500 yard elk and deer hunting and am partial to the 340 if elk are on the menu--it's just flat awesome. 210 partitions open beutifully on deer at that range and still will provide an exit would on broadside elk if you avoid the shoulder. I've never recovered a 210 partition in a deer at any range. In fact, with this load, you won't have to change bullets/loads between deer and elk hunts. (I haven't noticed a significant difference in penetration with the 225 and 250 partitions and the 210s at 3250 fps shoot surprisingly flat). Hard to ask for a lot more out of a long range deer/elk cartridge. If you aren't bothered by the recoil, the 338 bores are greatly underated for long range accuracy IMO. I've owned two that would regularly shoot 1 hole groups. When they first came out, I did the 30-378 thing for a while and could never find top knotch accuracy --ie <.5 moa at full bore velocity. Ultimately, I concluded the extra 200 fps over a 300 wby didn't justify the expense and noise. With a 30-378, you will also be lonely at the shooting range if you are shooting a muzzlebreak.

Ok guys, I'm new to this site...

Lots of great information here... a little background first.
I've been hunting for 25 years or so, have several rifles, and have been reloading for about 10 years. In my factory rifles I can shoot around .75 to 1 MOA groups with handloads. I'm getting the hankering for a new rifle and wanted to get a few other opinions...

The rifle will be used for long range deer hunting (300-500 yard shots, out of deerstands with sandbag rests), but I would like it to be capable of taking elk sized game if I ever get the chance. I would love to be able to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA groups consistently, and don't mind going through all the reloading tricks to get that (ie neck turning, etc.) I'm really fond of .284 bullets, but wouldn't mind going up to .308 bullets if improved accuracy would be significant.

Now the questions:

1. Best factory rifle (most accurate) for $1100 or less? (I would then take it to a gunsmith for custom trigger)

2. Best rifle for $4000 or less (ie build the rifle) please recommend most accurate actions, barrels, stocks, etc.

I would like to limit the rifle without scope to 7.5 lbs or so.

Don't want a gun which will kick the stink out of me, and I don't want a muzzle brake...

Was thinking Sako for the factory rifle, and a Christensen arms rifle for a custom job, probably in 7mm or 300 WSM or RSAUM.

Any opinions out there?

Many thanks

Welcome.



My rifle for that application is a Winchester M 70 in 7mm WSM. Right now it's sighted in with the 140 gr Pro Hunter at 3250 fps. I carry data and a laser rangefinder.



Here is how it shot today at 200 yds from a cold barrel.







Custom rifles are not for me. However many here really like them.



My idea would be to buy the Winchester and change out what needs changing.



Here is a picture of the rifle. So far I have replaced the stock, adjusted the trigger, slicked the safety and added a Ken Farrell elevation base. The scope is a Leu 4.5-14 Tac and it's not up to my standards and will be replaced very soon. I have done all of the work myself.

Sako M-75 would be a great choice for a factory gun (I have 4 and love them all), the only thing I don't like as well as some others is the stock.
One of my best buddies has 2 Christianson rifles that shoot superbly though they look a little odd and the sorry S.O.B. won't sell me either of them.
My first choice however would be a HS Precision for the following reasons:
1. They are GUARANTEED to be 1/2 minute accurate or better. The 5 I've experianced all were better. There certainly are M-70's, M-700's etc that shoot that well but they are not guaranteed to be.
2. At $1995 they cost less than most other custom production rifles.
3. If you buy an aftermarket trigger it won't be as good as the one that comes on it. (They have excellent triggers).
4. Probably have what you want in stock instead of waiting weeks or months.
5. They are available in Take-Down, Ultralight, Light, Medium and Heavy -all with the same accuracy guarantee.
6. You might save enough to spend the extra on a really good scope.....

The last being said, I would rather hunt with a $700 Winchester with a Swarovski or SchmidtundBender scope, Than a $100,000 Holland and Holland with a cheap scope. Budget accordingly.

Good Luck, I'd like to hear what you end up with.......DJ

Savage:



Nice target! When I shoot one like that and try to show it to friends, they always say, "Looks like it's shooting low and to the right." So I explain the object is the group size and not the point of impact, and they STILL think it's off.



I need smarter friends.



Megalo:



Why not the Sako in .308 Win.?



kk

There is no reason why you should not choose the 7mm Rem. Mag. for this application. Mine ( a Ruger No.1B) shoots 1" groups @ 200 yards, and drives a 140-grain Sierra or Nosler Partition @ 3400 FPS for deer hunting and a 175-grain Partition @ 3050 for killing elk, which it does like a lightning bolt!



Any good quality speedlock CRF bolt-action would do well if you put a Hart, Shilen or other very accurate custom barrel on it!

Many very good suggestions.

Here's one more (hopefully a good one).

- For a factory rifle. I would have chosen the Sauer 202 "outback". It is possible to exchange barrels/calibers and it has a very nice trigger. It is very accurate, but perhaps not fully as rugged as the Sako 75 or Tikka T3, which would be my other options for a factory rifle.

For a custom rifle, I would choose a HS - Precision, and why not in 7 mm Rem. Mag.(remembering the 7mm bullet standards for best accuracy - see post on this). I totally agree with, and have similar stories as djpaintless. (I know of a person who actually won the Norwegian championship in Bench Rest with a HS-rifle in .270 Win. - it was then unmodified, - he later modified it with a Jewell trigger and a Shilen Select Match-grade barrel with tight-neck chambering in .308 Win. - and won the same BR-class the following year.)

HS Precision cut-rifles their barrels, and I guess their 10X barrels are as good as any other barrel.

As djpaintless writes - with this choice you could put much more money in the optics (Swarovski, Schmidt&Bender, Zeiss, Kahles or Nikon Monarch Gold).

You say it will be used off sand bags from a stand, then why only 7 1/2 lbs? You then go on to say that you don't want to be beat up by recoil and don't want a brake. I would say think about building a long range rifle that weighs at least 9 lbs. A 7 1/2 pound gun with scope is a carbine IMO. The most effective and underrated recoil reducer and accessory for making a gun easier to hit with is WEIGHT. If I were building a gun for the application you describe it would have a magnum coutour 26" barrel and a substantial laminate stock and would weigh 10 1/2 lbs scoped, such a rig is a joy to shoot small targets at long range. You're basically target shooting at this point with it and will need to spend some time on a long range course learning about mirage and wind. My target rifle weighs 14 lbs. with open sights. After all, you hauled the sand bags out there, what's 3 more pounds of rifle?

Thanks guys for all the advice! I'll definetly look into HS precision rifles.

Not too sure whether I want another 7mm Mag. I've already got a Rem 700 Sendero w/ 26 inch fluted bull barrel. Shooting 150 gr ballistic tips at 3200 fps w/ Re 22 into consistent 3/4 MOA groups (I can easily get up to 3275 fps, but start to lose accuracy). I used that rifle to take a 125 class whitetail this past year at 405 yards (off sandbags), but tricked out with scope and bipod the gun weighs about 10 lbs. I love the 7 mag, but was just thinking that the 'short/fat' concept of the short mags may help with accuracy a little (no experience with them whatsoever, though)

As far as the scope, I was thinking of going with the new Leupold VX III long range 6.5x20 with 50mm objective (now with 30mm tube). At around $780, I'm thinking will be the best bang for the buck.

Thanks again for the advice!

One more thing....

The groups I'm getting are all 5 shot groups. I noticed at the HS precision web site they are talking about 3 shot accuracy of 1/2 MOA. My 7 Mag will often give me .3 to .5 MOA with 3 shots. Heck, even my factory .280 mountain rifle shot a .25 MOA group(3 shots) 2 days ago with its 22 inch sporter barrel and 160 gr Accubonds (I'm working up a load for a red stag hunt in Argentina next week!!!)

Sorry to nitpick, just wanted to make sure you guys understood the standard to which I hold my rifles to.

Sounds like you already have the gun your looking for in that Sendero. If you want a similiar gun look at the Model 70 Coyote in the short mags.

.264 winmag; or, if you want to have something different, a 6.5/06.

Whats far more important to me than groups is staying sighted in! Notice that the group that I showed is just about where it was last month.

So I only shoot two shot groups and record where they hit. Swede96 was at the range a month ago and saw that rifle make another one hole group at 200 yds and it hit in the same place!

However all is not perfect. I really don't like the 4.5-14. It's not nearly as good as a Conquest in any way. That day had a tough sun field as it faces west. The sun has just started coming around here and it's going to get worse. The crosshairs on that Leu were pale red and it was hard to see anything in the shadows.

Since Meglo has a healthy budget more money can be spent. That has to be fun if you can swing it.

The products of Accuracy International are very impressive.

I don't know if they chamber for "7mm's" however. Perhaps they would do a custom chambering.

For custom look here www.bansersrifle.com www,riflesinc.com For a little more money www.jarrettrifles.com Factory a Savage in .300 winchester, short or original.
wayne

I had a Leopold Vari-X III Long range side focus and got rid of it. I was shooting on a sunny day and couldn't get the target and the reticle into clear focus together after about 1 1/2 hours of messing with the occular and the side focus. I could clearly see on that same day at the same time through my Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x40 -a much less expensive scope that I was out shooting with today! (Sako 223 trying out 53gr Barnes Triple Shocks).
I'm not at all suggesting that you would have the same results but if at all possible spend some time with the leopold, and maybe a Zeiss,Swarovski S&B etc. Try finding something with lettering a couple hundred yards away and see which scope YOU can see most clearly through. You may even get off cheaper - Or spend a lot more!

For a biggame rifle 3 shot groups is all you should care about. Also the ability of the 1st shot from a cold bore to go into the same group.

A couple of years ago, I shot this group with my CZ 550 Varmint (heavy barrel) using the handloads I worked up for this .308.

The first two shots touched but I "missed" the dot. so using Kentucky elevation, I shot the third shot. I hit the dot but probably ruined one of the best groups I might have made.

300 WSM in the Sako 75.