These are rare birds over here in the US. You never hear much about them. Is one preferable to the other? Just a little history about the two if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Terry

What happened to the 8mm calibres?
http://www.sahunt.co.za/sahunter/reload/8mm.html

The article doesn't cover the 8x64 but there is some info/background on the 8x60 Mauser.

-Bob F.

Thanks Bob, I'll give it a look.

Terry

I just bought a BRNO mod 21 in 8x60 -lovely, light and very well balanced. The recoil was a bit stiffer than I thought it would be but the rifle weighs less than my .22LR...

This should be a very usable gun!

In the fall I´ll start work on my 8x68...

I'm in the process of putting together an 8x60. I have a nice M21 takeoff barrel in 8x57 that I'll rechamber.

I'm looking forward to its completion.

My current 8x57 is an open site rifle, the 8x60 will be scoped. It'll be a nice relatively light weight addition and will fill a small gap between the effective ranges of my 8x57 and my 8x68.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
What happened to the 8mm calibres?
http://www.sahunt.co.za/sahunter/reload/8mm.html

What an ignorant author. Annoying indeed.

Carcano

Well Carcano, that's the way it goes sometimes. I try to find what information I can and try to learn. Maybe you should write a book or something about the history and development of German sporting cartridges. You seem to have a vast amount of knowledge about the subject. I just wish you would share some of your knowledge so we could all learn and benefit from it.

-Bob F.

We don't have to go so far as to summon me from the ivory tower, Bob . You know yourself how ignorant the article of Chris Bekker is. This becomes clear especially *glaringly* if you compare it, next door on the very same website, to the Afrikaans article on the 8x60.

Carcano

Chris Bekker isn't one of my favorite gun writers. I found one of his articles on the 9.3x62 to be rather mediocre. I wish I could read the article in Afrikaans about the 8x60. Unfortunately I can't read Afrikaans (or German or Dutch).

Cheers,
-Bob F.

Obviously, a lash up here on the 8x60 and 8x64. I do not claim to be an expert on either one, however, I do have current experience with a SAKO 8x60mm (0.318) FN Mauser, and it's frustrating as can be, largely because of the problem of finding proper diameter bullets. As for performance, I managed to get factory spec handloads right away with 196gr Norma and Woodleigh bullets. It's another .30-06 class cartridge, and fun to shoot. As to the whys and wherefores of this cartridge, I suspect Carcano can beat the subject to death. As I read all the books and manuals, the 8x60mm was merely an expedient for the civilian German gunsmiths to get around the Treaty of Versailles, which they did very well with one pass of their reamers.
LLS

My 8x60s project is in the works too.

It should be off the gunsmith for barrel installation by the end of the month!

Carcano,

I would really like to learn more about your reference to my apparent ignorance and what it is that cause you to find it so annoying?

Firstly, my article was not meant to be a detailed dissertation on the 8x60, but in fact it deals primarily with the demise of all 8mm calibers in SA.

Secondly, my article is not in contradiction to the article of Andre Fouche, who served with me on the same committee of the Reloading Association of South Africa.

Thirdly, I do state that the 8x60 is every bit as good as the 30-06, and its dwindling support has nothing to do with its performance or design criteria. It is how I perceive it as a South African. If different in Germany or nabouring countries than it would be very interesting to get that perpective from you.

If you have additional and better information about the 8x60 specifically, then I think we will all be delighted if you could share it with the fraternity. Remember the goal of my article was a general one on all 8 mm's and not specifically the 8x60 mm.

I have no axe to grind with you, but you seem to have an issue with me and that needs clarification. If I have indeed made a mistake with any of the information in my published article in the SA Hunters, then I would be the first one to appologise and have it corrected.

I remain
Chris Bekker

The preamble of my article ...


"The rise and fall of calibres are sometimes as a result of specific circumstances and not because they did not perform well enough. In the sporting or hunting world, we see clearly the preference of the American/British group favouring imperial calibres, whilst in Europe they like their metric calibres. However there are a few exceptions today, such as the ever so popular 7 mm Remington Magnum in the USA. The goal of this article is to give an overall view specifically on the 8 mm family of cartridges and why they are not so widely used anymore."

Chris Bekker

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
Chris Bekker isn't one of my favorite gun writers. I found one of his articles on the 9.3x62 to be rather mediocre. -Bob F.

Hi Bob,

I cannot say better things about the 9,3 x 62 mm than I already have, being one of my all time favourites. I am sorry that you view it as "rather mediocre". All I can say is, so be it, but hopefully you share my passion for this caliber and in that regard we can shake hands.

Best regards
Chris Bekker

South African wrote:

quote:

Chris Bekker again, when are people going to realise that anything he says is good for a laugh only.

Gecko wrote:

quote:

Isn't it sort of an unspoken rule that people like 'cats' and others and in this case CB, should automatically be banned from this forum, even if they have act in an abusive way elsewhere on the Internet, yet having an effect on respected AR members of long standing through their unacceptable actions so taken?

carcano91 wrote:

quote:

What an ignorant author. Annoying indeed.

BFaucette wrote:

quote:

Chris Bekker isn't one of my favorite gun writers. I found one of his articles on the 9.3x62 to be rather mediocre.

truvelloshooter wrote:

quote:

....... then I would be the first one to appologise and have it corrected.

Here is your chance to do just what you have said above - follow this link.

Chris, if you are man enough, confess to the members of AR that you have stolen a photo from the GS Custom web site and apologise to both Gerard and Brian Smith, the real hunter of that Kudu, for doing so.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
These are rare birds over here in the US. You never hear much about them. Is one preferable to the other? Just a little history about the two if you don't mind.Thanks,Terry

The 8X64 is not much different from the 8mm/'06, a very good round as well! The 8X60 was dreamed up to give the German civilians something to which they could rechamber their 8X57mm rifles and still own them after the Treaty of Verailles made it illegal for Germans to own military-caliber rifles. Although a lot of 8X60 ammo was loaded to about the same ballistics using the same bullets as the earlier 8X57's, there was at least one "super" load called the Magnum Bombe which fired a 187-grain bullet at around 2800 FPS for over 3200 ft/lb ME. Some considered thios load to be as good as the .300 H&H for African plains game. The 8X60 was produced with both .318" ("J") bores, and .323" (S) bores, and there was also a rimmed version, the 8X60RJ and 8X60RS. The 8X60 ammo is still being made by some companies in Europe, but I don't think the 8X60R is made any more. Both 8X60 rounds are considered obsolete. I don't know if the 8X64 is still being made.

I make ammo for my 8X60RS double from 7X65R brass.

quote:

Originally posted by truvelloshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
Chris Bekker isn't one of my favorite gun writers. I found one of his articles on the 9.3x62 to be rather mediocre. -Bob F.

Hi Bob,

I cannot say better things about the 9,3 x 62 mm than I already have, being one of my all time favourites. I am sorry that you view it as "rather mediocre". All I can say is, so be it, but hopefully you share my passion for this caliber and in that regard we can shake hands.

Best regards
Chris Bekker

Chris,

No animosity intended by me. Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that the 9.3x62 cartridge was mediocre. I have one and I really like it. It has become one of my favorite cartridges.

I was just making a comment about one of your articles on the 9.3x62. Here's the link:
http://www.reloadersnest.com/article_9362_oct2803.asp

In regards to the article: I just don't really see what the big deal is about back thrust. I mean, so what if the 9.3x62 has less back thrust and chamber pressure than the .375 H&H? Bolt actions have been handling the .375 H&H and other cartridges just fine for a long time. Just my two cents worth...

-Bob F.

quote:

Chris, if you are man enough, confess to the members of AR that you have stolen a photo from the GS Custom web site and apologise to both Gerard and Brian Smith, the real hunter of that Kudu, for doing so.

Jagter,

I have used a picture of a kudu with the best set of horns that I have ever seen way back when I was writing for Sporting Rifles some 5 years ago. This was purely an example of a nice kudu and I could not remeber where I got it from on the net. However, nowhere did I claim that it was my kudu. I do not make false claims. Rather focus on the informational content of the article that discussed the virtues of the 300 H&H as a caliber and its ballistic features.

However as promised, when a correction is needed I will make it. So here is my apology then to both Gerard and Brian for using the photo without his permission. My article does not refer to the kudu or make any claims about it as being my kudu that I have shot.

Back to your other statement that my stuff is only worth a laugh. That is fine with me as I hold the same opinion about you what I have seen in your communication with Dr Mauritz Coetzee. Now if you are man enough our invitation stands - meet with me and Mauritz in his shop in Pretoria.

Chris Bekker

I like mine. Bought it for $325.00 if I recall. I have the scope mount too, but it took me three years to find it.


I trim my '06 cases to length, and load a cheapo Hornady 220 grain long to jam into the rifling. Bang! Works like a charm.

quote:

I just don't really see what the big deal is about back thrust. I mean, so what if the 9.3x62 has less back thrust and chamber pressure than the .375 H&H? Bolt actions have been handling the .375 H&H and other cartridges just fine for a long time. Just my two cents worth...

-Bob F.

Hi Bob,

I accept your two cents worth as your opinion and that it may not be important to you. I respect that but I respectfully do differ with you. In that same vain we can then argue that nothing is material in terms of differences in chamber pressure and back thrust. So no discussion is then needed on ballistic differences between any cartridges. For example then we can also say differences between a 375 H&H and a 378 weatherby Magnum is of no concern as the action can handle it.

The main thrust of my statement about the backthrust was that it puts much less stress on the lugs especially with the softer K98 actions of which the DWM action is a good example, and surely you do not want to expose such an action to 62,500 psi.

The article that I wrote was my humble effort to write my view and perspective on the caliber. The calculation or reference per se about the 'back thrust' surely cannot turn the article into a mediocre effort - that would only be true if I missed out on the most important features of the caliber or the virtues that are held dear by so many hunters.

Regards
Chris Bekker

CB:
Both Gerard and Brian will appreciate your apology. However, it is still an illegal action to use other people's property without their consent and/or any reference to the source of such material.
The owners of Deerstalker realised that fully and that's why they have removed the complete article + photo from their web site.

Furthermore, the same article (300H&H - The most versatile magnum), this time with another Kudu, nobody knows at this stage who's it could be, was also hawked by yourself to the web site "Reloaders Nest" - this time in October 2003.

As South African said, it really is a laugh!

I hoped to see you at the AIM Show on Saturday, 25 March 2006, but the guy at the Big Bore Ass. stall didn't even know who you are!
Saw Mauritz at L&W stall, but he was very busy with clients and when I came back later he was no longer there.
Anyway, why should I run after you if you are not at the places where hunters get together?

I trust that these posts will open peoples' eyes and that they will realise who and what you really are.

quote:

Originally posted by truvelloshooter:
Hi Bob,

I accept your two cents worth as your opinion and that it may not be important to you. I respect that but I respectfully do differ with you. In that same vain we can then argue that nothing is material in terms of differences in chamber pressure and back thrust. So no discussion is then needed on ballistic differences between any cartridges. For example then we can also say differences between a 375 H&H and a 378 weatherby Magnum is of no concern as the action can handle it.

The main thrust of my statement about the backthrust was that it puts much less stress on the lugs especially with the softer K98 actions of which the DWM action is a good example, and surely you do not want to expose such an action to 62,500 psi.

The article that I wrote was my humble effort to write my view and perspective on the caliber. The calculation or reference per se about the 'back thrust' surely cannot turn the article into a mediocre effort - that would only be true if I missed out on the most important features of the caliber or the virtues that are held dear by so many hunters.

Regards
Chris Bekker

Dear Mr Bekker
http://www.sahunt.co.za/sahunter/reload/8mm.html

I don`t find anything wrong in your artical
and i think its a good one!

I myself shoot oddball calibers like the
M88 8x57 which can be a bit hard to find ammo for and especially 227grain bullets..but very
challeging and rewarding when find some.
I believe the 8mm caliber has gone down some after the WW11 simply because americans has making rifles in the .300cal and cheap ones too..and that has make most people priore as far as economy. 30-06 and .308 Win has been predominent because of cheap supplus ammo available and the ol`e 8x57 has simply been reduced a "funnycaliber" one can shoot with if finding a wehrmannmauser+ some WW11 ammo.
American ammunition manufactures has made some 8x57 mauser ammo, but allmost only duplicating 30-30 ballistics, which is rather puny. A good factoryload from Norma or RWS will
do anything any 30-06 will do .
If intersted in history of smallarms one will know the we here in Europe had High Velocity catridges when uncle sam were shooting piglead and blackpowder. After WW11 europe had to recover it self and invention of new cartridges
were not on the program, nobody had any money
and British East Africa with the Safarilife had allmost gone dead, except that the americans had the money and kept it going(good) . American gunwriters wrote about africa using american calibers and by that way pushing the once popular british/european calibers out of gunwriting.

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
...<snip>... American ammunition manufactures has made some 8x57 mauser ammo, but allmost only duplicating 30-30 ballistics, which is rather puny. A good factory load from Norma or RWS will do anything any 30-06 will do.
...<snip>... If intersted in history of smallarms one will know the we here in Europe had High Velocity catridges when uncle sam were shooting piglead and blackpowder. After WW11 europe had to recover it self and invention of new cartridges were not on the program, nobody had any money and British East Africa with the Safarilife had allmost gone dead, except that the americans had the money and kept it going(good) . American gunwriters wrote about africa using american calibers and by that way pushing the once popular british/european calibers out of gunwriting.

Very true and I agree. The more I learn and read about cartridge history and development the more I realize how far ahead Europe was, compared to the U.S., in cartridge design. The 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 7x57, 7x64, 8x57, 9x57, and the 9.3x62 are excellent examples. Of course, the .30-06 came about due to the influence of the 7x57 and 8x57 cartridges. We were just playing catch up. The British, of course, also had some excellent sporting cartridges.

I took my Remington 700 Classic in 8x57JS and my CZ 550 in 9.3x62 to South Africa last August for a plains game hunt. And my friend that went with me took his CZ 550 in 9.3x62 as well. The PHs were really surprised when two guys from Texas showed up with rifles chambered for two classic German cartridges. They told us we were the first Americans they had ever hosted that brought 9.3x62 rifles. And they thought we had excellent taste in cartridges.

BTW: Both the 8x57 and the 9.3x62 performed flawlessly on our hunt. Of course, that's not a big surprise as both have been getting the job done for the last 100 years.

-Bob F.

Jagter,

The kudu picture displayed on "Reloaders Nest" is standing in the veldt and still belongs to God. Nobody has claimed him as yet as his. Furthermore, the kudu has nothing whatsoever to do with the article. So, please concentrate on the article. If you had hopes to meet with me at the show, it would only be wise to have phoned me, as the show is actually a 3-day show, and chances are very slim if I visit say on a Friday afternoon and you on a Sunday morning that we would meet, not so? Mauritz was there for the full 3 days and if you really wanted to see him it was not a mission impossible. Your reasoning is rather presumptuous especially when you say "why should I run after you if you are not at the places where hunters get together". I was there between 2 and 5 pm Friday afternoon. All my friends and the people at associations that I rub shoulders with know exactly who I am.

Chris Bekker

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
I don`t find anything wrong in your artical
and i think its a good one!

Jens Poulsen,

Thanks chom for having the guts to say in what you believe in the face of a few individuals who run a petty discreditation program against me. It seems that critisism comes mostly from peolple who never stick their necks out.

Historical events can sometimes make or break a caliber and sometimes we can even laugh at some silly things that happened. One such example was for the Americans to ban the 8x57 mm - I call this the illusion of control over another nation. Likewise, a 30-06 is still banned in France and Belguim today, if I am not mistaken, and that purely because it was a military caliber.

The wheel is constantly turning. The RUM's and WSM's may also go the same road of extinction in future in similar fashion to most other wildcats that were created in America since World War 2.

The 7 x 57 mm, another one of my favourites, has been dropped from all manufacturers as a standard factory offering - also a sad state of affairs. This caliber is luckily still going strong in South Africa purely because of the number of rifles in circulation.

Also, the 9.3 x 62 mm has been making a strong comeback in South Africa over the last 7 years since PMP has offered factory ammo for the caliber, but is was really the Scandinvians who kept the caliber going during its dark years when it was pushed out by the 375 H&H.

Regards
Chris Bekker

quote:

Originally posted by truvelloshooter:
...<snip>....
Historical events can sometimes make or break a caliber and sometimes we can even laugh at some silly things that happened. One such example was for the Americans to ban the 8x57 mm - I call this the illusion of control over another nation. ...<snip>....

Not to be argumentative, but let's not forget that Great Britain and France had more than just a little influence and input on the Treaty of Versailles. But, frankly, I don't know which country or countries wanted the ban on the 8x57 cartridge after WWI. That might be an interesting topic to research.

BTW: here's the full text of the Treaty of Versailles:
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/text/versaillestreaty/vercontents.html

-Bob F.

truvelloshooter wrote:

quote:

Mauritz was there for the full 3 days and if you really wanted to see him it was not a mission impossible.

So was Gerard also the full 3 days there and after all the trouble you caused him in the past you didn't even bother to show your face at his stall.
But could one really expect anything better from you?

As I said the other day to a respected AR member: "We all do respect each other after all, but this type of action is one definite way to show the opposite, which I think is very unfair towards anybody."
This was said with reference to your way of doing, namely the fraudulent way you use other peoples material, presenting it to more than one web site and magazine as your original work - this specific 8mm article appearing on both Deerstalker web site and SA Hunter's magazine and web site.
Publishers don't like this and they are beginning to see through you, Chris - the beginning of the end, old chap!

Just to remind you what I had to say to Mauritz re his low level of technical knowledge, till today he couldn't give a reply on his incorrect technical explanation - although he promised to do so very soon - in the article on 'Solid bullet dynamics.'

To use South African's words: 'What a laugh!'
Seems it applies to both of you.

Jagter,

The fact that my 8 mm article appear at more than one place is not a problem as more people in different parts of the world can read it. SA hunters asked me for articles and that that was one of the aticles they got - no sin. Reloaders Nest also wrote me and ask if I could give them some. So there is nothing wrong with that accept your presumptious attitude.

The only thing that is wrong, is that you are not making a contribution. Comment on an informative basis about the 8 mm article and you can win some creditability. Write us a story and submit it.

Chris Bekker

Hi Bob,

When the new military .300 caliber was developed in 1903 (forerunner of the 30-06 Spr in 1906)the USA copied the Mauser action and lost a law suit against Mauser. the action was ahead of anything that existed at the time. The 8 x 57 was simply a class act. The Mauser family and the Krupp brothers made giant contributions to arms development.

Little wonder that the USA and Brittian did not also order that the 8 x 60 mm could not be manufactured as the perceived threat was surely the same.

If it were not for stafff members working at the Mauser factory, that stole the drawings and certain documents after WW2, it may have sounded the death knell for the K98 action. What a pity that would have been. The Mauser factory in Oberndorf was destroyed after the war in July 1948.

We value the K98 today as a sporter action and not for its military use. The K98 action was spread all over the world since the turn of the century (1900 to 1945) and with hindsight what a saving grace that we can build rifles on Argetinian (1909), Brasillian, Turkish, Yugoslavian Mausers VZ24 &47)and others. Most other factories, including FN, stopped producing Mauser actions as they became to expensive to manufacture and they now only live by virtue of private initiative to manufacture them.

Chris Bekker

I have only read parts of the Versaille treaty, and that was in magazine articles etc. However, my understanding of the philosophpy behind the treaty was to break the German states' ability to wage war in the form which had just been experienced (1914-1918).

So, no heavy artillery, no machine guns after the horrors of the trenches. No airforce - Red Barons etc. No submarines / navy etc (Not sure about this last bit).

The German Army was to be reduced to a quasi paramilitary police force like the French Gendarmes and Italian Carabineri (spellings?). The German army was to be severely limited in the number of both officers and men and, of course, rifles.

German snipers had wrought havoc in the early part of the Great War using telescopically sighted hunting rifles, chambered for the military issue cartridge. UIt should not be surprising the British etc would want the numbers severely controlled.

There is little point stating the regular army can only have x thousand rifles when there are x+n thousand similar rifles in civillian circulation. Many of the sniper rifles used by the Germans in the early part of the war were given over to the military by patriotic German hunters.

So, the cartridges allowed to civillian shooters can be similar to the military issue rounds (bore diameter, power etc) AS LONG AS THEY WILL NOT CHAMBER in military rifles.

Apart from that, there was the political will to punish Germany for launching an aggressive war and to humiliate the vanquished.

I believe the ban on military cartridges in France and Belgium is based on security of the state. There were lots of guns in circulation, and piles of ammunition, courtesy of the Germans, Americans and British after two major wars.

This was coupled with major political - social instability 1919 - 1950s /60s. Post World War One,and to date, the British state openly distrusts the British people.

CB:
Isn't there a remarkable resemblance between the two sets of cartridge discussions below?

As per African Hunter's web site:
© African Hunter 1980-2006. No portion of this publication may be reproduced without permission.

quote:

The only area that Taylor considered the 9,3x62 unsuitable for was following up wounded elephant in thick cover, and most hunters would agree. The penetration is there aplenty, enabling the bullet to reach the vitals from any angle, but the sheer bullet energy needed to turn a close quarters charge just simply isn't there (nor is it in the .375 H&H for that matter). Nevertheless the 9,3x62 found immediate acceptance amongst even the large-bore fans in the professional elephant hunting fraternity, for use in open country where shots over 20 meters were the norm. In thick bush, or when following up a wounded elephant, the professional would then take his heavy rifle (a .500, .505 or larger). In truth, many of the small-bore fans kept at least a .450 double in reserve for wounded jumbo in the thick stuff. Wounded elephant aside, the 9,3x62 adequately fitted the bill for everything else.

As well as the following bit:

quote:

More and more people are re-discovering that the 9,3x62 is a great "all round" rifle. For the man who occasionally gets to shoot a buffalo or elephant, and spends most of his time hunting kudu, eland etc, the 9,3x62 makes an awful lot of sense. The recoil is not excessive, nor the meat damage so severe as to make it an unreasonable choice for game as small as impala, so its owner might as well use it on everything. This makes a great deal more sense than doing most of your hunting with a small or medium bore rifle, and then having change to a different rifle, often with a longer bolt throw, for that once every two or three year buffalo hunt. Beware of the hunter who only uses one rifle he usually knows it intimately, where it shoots at longer ranges and generally is not the originator of cock-ups and wounded game. Loaded with good bullets the 9,3x62 will give the same terminal performance a .375, and do it without the sharper recoil/longer action/greater weight of its modern replacement.

And then your cleverly reworked version thereof as it appears on the 'Reloaders Nest' web site:

quote:

The only area that Taylor considered the 9,3 unsuitable for was following up wounded elephant in thick cover. The penetration with solids can reach the vitals from any angle, but the sheer bullet energy needed to turn a close quarters charge just simply isn't there, nor is it in the .375 H&H for that matter. In thick cover or when following up a wounded elephant, the best would be a double such as the 470 Nitro Express. No other animal on earth can match the power, cunning and danger of elephants!

Plus this lot:

quote:

More and more people are re-discovering that the old 9,3 is a great all-round rifle that performs very well at bushveld ranges, as its velocity is so ideal, unlike most other medium bore calibres. For the man who occasionally gets to shoot a buffalo, but actually hunts mostly kudu or eland, the 9,3 makes a lot of sense. Factors in favour of the 9,3 is its manageable recoil, relatively low chamber pressure and it can be built on cheaper Standard Mauser actions.

I didn't bother to find out where you got the rest from, but this is self-explanatory of your modus operandi.

Before I copy and rework other peoples property I would rather prefer not to make any contribution at all.

.

Alf wrote:

quote:

Jagter et al:
Let's see now:

If you ask 30 guys who have Taylors text in front of them regarding the 9.3 to summarize the content of that text what would you find? 30 versions of exactly this! Is that in fact than plagiaterism? Methinks not.

What you don't see here is that Bekker is not summarizing anything from the original work - if he did he would have come up with something hopefully more original - he is cleverly revamping other peoples summaries (work) to make it looks like his own research work done on the topic and present it as new to the publishers under his own name.
That is plagiarism in the true sense of the word.

quote:

The verocity with which some are attacked and pulled apart amazes me?

Don't you worry about the fierceness of my attack on CB, you seem to forgot with how much ferocity or rather savagery, to put it more clearly, he came down on me in previous discussions I had with his friend Mauritz, where he was not even suppose to be part of it all.

Of all people, Alf, you should know that if you wrote an article for publication (not forum discussions as we see it here on AR) and you use other peoples work in it, then it is a general rule that you add a list of refernces to your work admitting the use of others' work.
Do you see any of that on Bekker's articles?

quote:

South African wrote:

quote:
Chris Bekker again, when are people going to realise that anything he says is good for a laugh only.

Still the shortest way to sum up Chris Bekker et al!

When I wrote the 9,3 article I searched the subject matter to see what was already written before I launched my article. Whilst very little can be said what was not said before, one way or the other, I attempted to add new stuff and a new perspective especially with calculations about 'back thrust' and 'recoil' differentials between its rival 375 H&H, point blank ranges, bullet performance, various quotations from Koos Barnard, Dr Don Heath (Ganyana), penetration tests by Gregor Woods, the Scandinavian influence that kept the caliber alive after the destruction of the Mauser factory. I found the African Hunter article to be one of the better sources and I did borrow a few lines that were particularly very descriptive and factual - this must be seen in the context of a 3,500 words essay to pool the best possible information about the caliber and not because everything is just due to my own research. We must recognise the collective effort. I think my article is testimony to the fact that all the above people got their due credit for their invaluable contributions that they have made and in particular Ganyana, who I held in high esteem.

Please do not pull the dam underneath the duck's ass.

Chris Bekker

Not that I know what you guys are fighting about -I have no inerest in this- but as an author I just want to say that we all "borrow" material from other peoples work. Pictures should never be published without consent but a sentence or two isn´t really a problem -especially when writing on a 100 yo cartridge!

cewe:
How typical of today's world it is to soften the crime of theft by calling it "borrow"!
Likewise adultery becomes living together - how soft and sweet it sounds now - totally acceptable!

As an author, I bet if you do "borrow" from somebody else's work then you at least put it in "quotation marks" and give credit to from whoever you borrowed in the form of a reference at the end of or in your work.

Call a spade a spade, my friend.

A "truth " from litterature is that small writers borrow and truly big ones steal. Very few things that are written are truly original and every author is affected by what he/she has read etc.

Just to give some perspective -how many truly original rifle calibers do we have? Doesn´t the 9.3x62 case remind us of ditto 30-06?

So get of your high horses ST and join the real world.

cewe:

Small, 'borrowing' writers like yourself and CB are always trampled by the high horses of honesty!

Give credit to the ones you quote and you will survive and be honoured for it.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:

Doesn´t the 9.3x62 case remind us of ditto 30-06?

cewe, Considering where you are from, I would have thought you would have put that statment in reverve

Terry

truvelloshooter, I read the article and liked it.

Thank you,
Terry