P Dog,
Hell I gotta few years on everybody I know that's still on this side of the dirt.

I never have got accustomed to the term Bushveld, or Bush/Timber hunting. Hunting is hunting and what works on the top of a snow mountain, seems to work as well in the bush IMO...Come to think of it the holy grail of do it all is the 30-06, we never needed the rest of these calibers in the first place. The rest came about out of "want"....

Well....there you go making sense again. Just for ponderation. Some impressive ballistic coefficient numbers.
http://www.cbal.eu/bc.php

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Come to think of it the holy grail of do it all is the 30-06, we never needed the rest of these calibers in the first place. The rest came about out of "want"....

BTW: The link in my last post didn't show my choice of Nosler .338 bullets. I guess Lapua is the default.

I am not a fan yet, but I am contemplating re-boring a SA Winchester stainless Ultimate Shadow 7mm-08 into one. Already have a nice Mauser 7x57 and a Remington Classic 280 so thought I might turn this into a short light thumper with 358 Winchester being the other thought. Now if I could just decide!!

Being a fan of Nosler bullets, the .338's have a few more options than the .358 and both bullet choices are offered in the same bullet weight. So, I'm not seeing much improvement for .358 over .338 with regard to knock down power.

Since the 338Fed is a 308W-size case length (2.045") it should be compared to the 308Win or 358Win, and it is in its niche in a small, compact rifle. I would choose the 338Fed over a 308Win if walking around in the Selous or Masai steppe. Diameter wins over velocity as long as some loads can do 2600fps and easily work on hartebeest out to 300 yards.

Yes, the same logic would opt for the 358Win, so come out with some new bullets and a good over-the-counter platform and I might go that route for my grandkids. Right now, over-the-counter will mean a 308Win, and I'll need to tag along with a big bruiser for back-up (read 500, 416, or light-bruiser 375) Hey, I would be tagging along anyway. (So maybe TankerJockey would like to donate a 358Win to future generations? )

As soon as larger actions are included, then the 338 Win Mag should be the standard of comparison. And I much prefer a 338winMag in Africa to a 30-06, though both drop animals just fine as long as the bullet and its placement are good, not marginal.

PS: A 200 grain .358" at 2600fps might be fine for grandma, but it may be a little hefty for a smaller grandkid. Maybe a 130 grain .308", or 150grain .308 TTSX at 2600fps would be better, after all.

Hey Tarzan, I too am a big fan of the 338 win mag and have owned several but they do recoil briskly for a day to day piece. I took a 30-06 to Africa and took everything with a 168 Tipped Triple Shock X bullet including a 1400 pound Eland. But I still look fondly at the 338 in various persuasions. Maybe a 338-06 is in the future but maybe the little "Federale" could be made to work. Heck I don't shoot over 300 yards anyway. Decisions,Decisions.

TankerJockey-

If you like milder 338's, you might look at CDNN Sport's clearinghouse for a 338RCM. They had some pretty little blued 20" with-sights + wood stocked, also 22" no-sights + wood, and 22" stainless+composite, new rifles, each at $499.

I thought about such a rifle for my wife, but she already has a 375Ruger, which is buffalo-legal. Since we load her 375Ruger almost down to 338RCM levels, she really wouldn't gain anything from the 338RCM except maybe 3/4 pound lighter carry.

When I was contemplating turning my old M-600 Remington, .243 Win., into something more "useful"in the .308 family, (100-grain bullet at less than 2600 fps is pretty anemic) it came down to the .338 Federal and .358 Winchester. In the end, the .358 won out, as it would do everything the Federal round would do -- and more (if a 400 pound BC mountain grizzly were to decide to take possession of my fresh-killed moose).

Never regretted the decision.

tankerjockey-
If you intend to shoot factory ammo, the .338 Federal ammo might be easier to find. I hopped on an ammo listings site and there were 4 times the offerings for .338Fed over .358Win.

Well guess I have to hijack this thread, although the .338 Win and the 30-06 are my go to calibers for most any kind of hunting, for a strictly light big bore "bushveld" or dark timber rifle, if there is such a critter then I would choose without reservation, the best of the bunch, the 9.3x62 Mauser with a 250 gr. bullet at near 2600 FPS and a 286 gr. bullet at 2525 FPS in my gun and last but not least the 320 gr Woodligh at 2350-to 2400 FPS. Confusing ain't it??....I guess because every caliber mentioned in this thread works just fine.

Ray, those 9.3x62 figures are just about exactly what my wife's loadings do in 375Ruger. A 250TTSX at 2600fps and a 200gn GSC at 2800fps. The nice thing about the Ruger is that her husband (me) can run the loads up to 250TTSX at 2850-2900fps and the 200gn GSC at 3200fps, if "he" wants to borrow it. Her rifle is pretty compact and relatively light for a buffalo-legal rifle because of the 20" barrel.

But back to the thread, what does one do with a short action? The 338Fed looks pretty handy. Practically though, the manufacturers haven't exactly flocked to either the 338Fed or the 358Win. Wildcatters have done a 375-08, but as the caliber grows the need for more capacity starts to emerge if one wants to maintain medium range hunting trajectories.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well guess I have to hijack this thread, although the .338 Win and the 30-06 are my go to calibers for most any kind of hunting, for a strictly light big bore "bushveld" or dark timber rifle, if there is such a critter then I would choose without reservation, the best of the bunch, the 9.3x62 Mauser with a 250 gr. bullet at near 2600 FPS and a 286 gr. bullet at 2525 FPS in my gun and last but not least the 320 gr Woodligh at 2350-to 2400 FPS. Confusing ain't it??....I guess because every caliber mentioned in this thread works just fine.

Ray,

That makes a lot of sense, but for that type of hunting I would choose a Marlin .45-70 loaded with one of the numerous loads with heavy bullets, at least in Alaska. The .45-70 is not only potent, but there is ammo readily available at the local stores, unlike the "metric wrench" calibers.
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?ta...6Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1

Also, the short Marlin rifle is as easy to point in the right direction as a kid's rifle.
----------
That said, I still would use my trusty .338WM rifle, and would not mind using a .338 Federal with 185-grain Barnes x tipped.

RayAlaska,
There ya go confusing the masses, self included, that's cheating btw! and then we have the Win. 71 in 348 and its great big bore conversions, like the 375/348 or the 416 or 450 Alaskan. Awesome rounds..

As to the bolt "short action" as a benefit to anything baffles me no end..It ain't that much shorter folks, so why use a lesser round..Someone said you might not short stroke the short action but you might the standard action..ONLY IF YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM AND WALK!!

I see absolutely no upside to the short, short, magnums shorter than a standard length action, except for the non magnum rounds like the .308, 243, 284, 358, and their ilk.

Atkinson: You're right. Shorty actions are not necessary. But, some rifles look better in a short action to me. Click on the link at the bottom to see the rifle that spawned my interest in the 338Fed. The standard action (as pictured) just seems too long for this dainty rifle. .338Fed seems like a perfect fit. Should make a heckuva hog rifle.
http://www.mauser-rifle.com/cm...models/mountain.html

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
RayAlaska,
There ya go confusing the masses, self included, that's cheating btw! and then we have the Win. 71 in 348 and its great big bore conversions, like the 375/348 or the 416 or 450 Alaskan. Awesome rounds..

As to the bolt "short action" as a benefit to anything baffles me no end..It ain't that much shorter folks, so why use a lesser round..Someone said you might not short stroke the short action but you might the standard action..ONLY IF YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM AND WALK!!

I see absolutely no upside to the short, short, magnums shorter than a standard length action, except for the non magnum rounds like the .308, 243, 284, 358, and their ilk.

Can't argue with you Ray, you always make good sense

By the way, the Ruger Hawkeye African .338WM sure is a good looking rifle. Had one in my hands recently, black over walnut stock, and no muzzle brake. My oldest son took a look at it, and now he wants it, "maybe when I die" I told him

Just read a very interesting article about the .338 Federal, written by Chris Mudgett on the July 2016 issue of Guns & Ammo magazine.

According to Mr. Mudgett, a 200-grainer fired from a .338 Federal at 2,700 fps (with a 22" barrel) has a similar trajectory as a 180-grainer fired from a .30-06 at 2,700 fps, out to 400 yards. Using a Federal load with 180-grainers, the .338 Federal packs over 300 foot-pounds of energy at 400 yards over the same bullet fired from a .30-06.

I know, I know... ballistics don't kill game.

quote:

OriginallyUsing a Federal load with 180-grainers, the .338 Federal packs over 300 foot-pounds of energy at 400 yards over the same bullet fired from a .30-06.

I know, I know... ballistics don't kill game.

300 foot-pounds ?????

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

OriginallyUsing a Federal load with 180-grainers, the .338 Federal packs over 300 foot-pounds of energy at 400 yards over the same bullet fired from a .30-06.

I know, I know... ballistics don't kill game.

300 foot-pounds ?????

Yes, 300 foot-pounds greater at 400 yards than a 180-grain bullet fired from a .30-06.

Federal loads a 180-grain NOS Accubond .338 Federal at 2,840 fps (3,223 foot-pounds), which is 300 foot-pounds greater than the same load for a .30-06.

The larger diameter bore, from .308 to .338 allows from higher velocity and energy while still keeping pressure within a safe range.

But just keep in mind that I am not a ballistics expert, just a reader. I found the article very interesting, perhaps because I do like the former .338-08 cartridge. Another one I like is the .338-06.

I have shot a couple elk with one using 185tsx. Think one at 180 yards and one at 250ish. Worked just fine. That was probably about 2007-2008 I think. Moved on to other calibers for elk now.

Well....no but they can sure prove or disprove one's theory. That was quite an interesting comparison in Guns and Ammo. Thanks for the mention and comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

I know, I know... ballistics don't kill game.

Most of the factory ammo is with 24" barrel. I have a 22" barrel and I generally see 50 fps less with the few factory loads I've shot (200 Fusion & 200 Trophy Bonded Tip). Fusion is the only factory load that claims 2700 FPS with 200 grain bullets. I generally reload to 2700-2750 with 180 grainers and 2600 with 200 grainers. Those are realistic velocities without over pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Most of the factory ammo is with 24" barrel. I have a 22" barrel and I generally see 50 fps less with the few factory loads I've shot (200 Fusion & 200 Trophy Bonded Tip). Fusion is the only factory load that claims 2700 FPS with 200 grain bullets. I generally reload to 2700-2750 with 180 grainers and 2600 with 200 grainers. Those are realistic velocities without over pressure.

You are correct.

I wonder if anybody has tried some of the 160-grain 3-Shock X Tipped bullets? It should be a good bullet for deer hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well guess I have to hijack this thread, although the .338 Win and the 30-06 are my go to calibers for most any kind of hunting.
for a strictly light big bore "bushveld" or dark timber rifle, if there is such a critter.

More hijack.

My good-to-go rifles today is the .333Jeffery and the .300H&H.
A mediumbore rifle will reach a wide spand of animals using bulletweighs from 200-300grain. No need for more really.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

I wonder if anybody has tried some of the 160-grain 3-Shock X Tipped bullets? It should be a good bullet for deer hunting.

One of the guys I share reloading data with on 24hourcampfire killed 2 Elk & several head of African plains game with the 160 TTSX at 3,000 FPS. He swears by them.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

I wonder if anybody has tried some of the 160-grain 3-Shock X Tipped bullets? It should be a good bullet for deer hunting.

One of the guys I share reloading data with on 24hourcampfire killed 2 Elk & several head of African plains game with the 160 TTSX at 3,000 FPS. He swears by them.

With new bullet designs such as the 3-shock X tipped, with is a hard but controlled-expanding bullet, a 160 grainer should provide ample penetration on game. For example, I have settle on the same bullet design, but in 225 grains, for all my hunting in Alaska using the .338WM. It shoots flatter than the heavyweights, and penetrates or breaks bone like crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

I wonder if anybody has tried some of the 160-grain 3-Shock X Tipped bullets? It should be a good bullet for deer hunting.

One of the guys I share reloading data with on 24hourcampfire killed 2 Elk & several head of African plains game with the 160 TTSX at 3,000 FPS. He swears by them.

With new bullet designs such as the 3-shock X tipped, with is a hard but controlled-expanding bullet, a 160 grainer should provide ample penetration on game. For example, I have settle on the same bullet design, but in 225 grains, for all my hunting in Alaska using the .338WM. It shoots flatter than the heavyweights, and penetrates or breaks bone like crazy.

Although I used the 338-06 for years, it really was not needed, we have always had the 35 Whelen, and better yet the 9.3x62 if one wants a 300 yard rifle...

I like the .338 Win simply because it can weigh the same as an 06, recoils no more as far as I can tell than the Whelen, 9.3 or 338-06, its on the same action.. Its a fantastic killer with a 300 gr. Woodleigh for going away shots at dark timber elk, and with a 210 Nosler it can reach out yonder at up to 500 or few more yards for cross canyon elk..Last years dark timber elk for my partner was 470 yards in the dark timber across the divide, it happens often..BTW, I could, but I never have loaded my 338 Win. down, it just works too well pumped to the gills..

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:

quote:

A 30-06 will do everything 99% of the people out there will ever need a rifle for, but gad would that be boring!

So true "theback40". .270's, '06's and .308's don't excite me anymore. There's no need for a larger bullet or even 250 grainers to kill big hogs, so I've heard. I still have yet to hunt them myself. I just want something new and different and custom. Mainstream factory rifles tend to bore me as well except for the few that have nice wood on them.

Atkinson. Thanks for chiming in as well.

Soo an 06 or 270 is "boring" but a caliber that drops like a rock @ 250 yds (and that is being generous) is cool and "trendy".. OK. Whatever fits your priorities.. Personally I have never given a rats rump about what is or isnt "trendy"..

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I know you said bolt but Armalite does a nice 338 Fed.

Hmmm....that sounds interesting!

That's what I was thinking. My AR-10 can always use another upper...

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
Sorry to all the fans of this caliber, but I don't get it. It's a superfluous caliber and extremely difficult to resale, which for guys like Biebs and myself resale is a huge issue.

Looking at your signature I's say you look pretty comfortable with superfluous calibers . Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of any man that shoots a 240 H&H!

In my opinion, a .338" diameter bullet is my choice for ALL big game be it deer or moose. I really see no use for any other caliber besides the 338 Winchester Magnum or the 338 Federal. If you still can't handle the recoil of the Magnum downloaded, then get a 338 Federal.

300m is a pretty good call I think.

I've hunted the Kalahari (SA) often and in the dune country I found dunes were seldom more than 350m apart. Longest required shot 375m. Bulk 230m to 310m. Seldom under 180m but not impossible.

Mountains for vaal rhebuck... 400m plus could be required but its a speciality hunt.

I guess parts of Namibia could need longer now amd again. Maybe parts of Tanzania. Never been to Tanzania. I hear mountain Nyala can test you long range skill.

If you shoot from vehicles if permitted you can shoot further in some flatter areas I'd guess. Don't know for sure; not my thing.

However I agree most of my hunting has been within 250m. Limited to Zim, SA and Namibia.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
BTW, I could, but I never have loaded my 338 Win. down, it just works too well pumped to the gills..

For 300 yard shots at deer, moose or elk; full power loads aren't necessary in the 338 Winchester Magnum. Nor going heavier than 185 TTSX's. Full pass-through's are no problem and shoot it like a sniper.