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Although I have Quickload, my laptop took a dump on me. I'm waiting on a charging port but I want to work up some loads W/RL17 & 200 gr Speer Hotcores in my 8x57. Use the following parameters: Speer 200 gr .323 Hotcore COAL = 3.055" Fired Case Capacity 62gr H2O Max pressure 60,000 PSI (modern commercial action) Max Load Density 107% Min Load Density 90% 23 1/2" Bbl Please give me max loads & I will reduce 10% & work up to predicted MV @ 60K while watching for pressure signs. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | ||
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28 Views & no response? I have done this numerous times for others. I had previously done the calcs but unfortunately I didn't print out he results. I'm currently working from an i-Pad so I can't load the program. Quickload predicted 27xxfps @ 60K but I need to know where to start. If someone would even do a standard CIP calc & post the results I could work from there. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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One of Us |
I'm setting here looking at your request in the QL window. I think the problem is that a lot of people have a problem with almost doubling the Pmax of an old cartridge like the 8x57. Your rifle may be modern but the cartridge was designed a long time ago. No one here is feeling warm and fuzzy about your project or they would have jumped on it. | |||
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How is going from the CIP pressure max of just under 57K to 60K "almost doubling"? The 30-06 is an "old cartridge" too but it is loaded to 60K. (SAAMI) It doesn't matter anyway as I got my charging cable today & repaired my PC. I can do my own calcs now. 59K should achieve around 2750fps. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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QL shows the SAAMI max of 35,000. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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SAAMI loads for the 8X57 are not adult loads. If I wanted to shoot a 32 Win Special I would buy one. CIP loads are for responsible adults. Aparantly the Europeans are more mature when it comes to not shooting full power CIP 8X57IS loads in an 8X57 '88 commission rifle. Do you think the S&B loads that push a 196gr bullets @ 2600fps are SAAMI spec? Same thing for the RWS H-Mantel 198gr loads @ 2698fps. SAAMI spec Win & Remington 8X57 loads are 170gr bullets @ 2400ish fps. Pathetic, & they do not do the 8X57IS justice. I'm hoping to duplicate this Vv N550 load @ similar or less pressure W/the much cheaper but adequate (at 2700fps) Speer Hotcores..  I can get Rl 17 locally @ about 1/2 the price of N550 that I have to have shipped. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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| One of Us |
There are a number of 8x57 cartridges listed in QL, it would help to know which one you are talking about when making a request for information. The 8 x 57 IS (8 mm Mauser CIP) is listed at 56,565 Pmax. You requested a “Max Load Density 107% “. I asume you meant Fill/L. R., because load density at 107% fill is 1.017 g/cm3. At 107% Fill of RL17 (59.69 grains) produces 68556 psi. At 90% (50.21 grains) produces 38839 psi. I would suggest you get a new computer and reload QL. Then you can play with your theory all you want. I wouldn't ask for reloading information on the internet forums. Anyone can be anything they want to be on the internet. Experts, scholars, and claim anything they want to claim. | |||
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Sorry for not being clear. 107% of available case capacity. "Load density" means available case capacity W/the bullet used @ the specified COAL. When you plug in a laod density maximum W/a 60K pressure ceiling it will not excede the pressure ceiling when the table is computed. The 90%/107% just gives a range to work in. My computer is up & running again.(read post #4 abpve) I was able to do my own Quickload Prediction. 54.8gr Rl 17 105.3% load density 59,619psi 2758fps Mv I'll start W/50gr & work up observing pressure signs, standard deviation & accuracey until I aproach 2750fps regardless of actual volume. My Vv N550 loads came out about 2gr less than predicted. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I use N150 for my 8x57. Load: 51grain N150(Max filled) 196grain Norma Alaska Norma brass VO= 800m/sec COL: 79mm Its where the 8x57 ought to be. To push it even further would become too much imho. My rifle is a commercial Mauser from 1913 with 23" barrel. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I sent you a couple PMs. For some reason our numbers are different. With mine being about 9000psi higher. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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You must use the Speer Hotcore, not the SP 2285. It is right above the SP 2285 in the drop down menue. The SP 2285 raises pressure about 300psi. The SP2284 has a seating depth of .439" @ my COAL while the Hotcore is .394.That's .045" difference. COAL is 3.055" Case capacity is 62gr H2O Plug in those values & see what you get. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Hmmm this makes me think I might be underselling my 8x60S somewhat. In a 24" ZG47 I get 2,600fps with H380 and 200gr partitions by working up to the difference between 8x57 and 8x64S load data. I have RL17........... | |||
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The 35,000 as quoted earlier is CUP not PSI or CIP. they are all different ways of measuring pressure. The pressure is all the same. The different numbers come from the way the pressure is tested. Most of the early rifles chambered for the 8x57 were not strong rifles. This is why the low pressure limits. In a modern rifle using modern brass you can safely increase the pressure. To 65k PSI maybe, maybe not. Trying to turn your 8x57 into a magnum isn't the best idea. If you want magnum power get a magnum. Leo The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
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FWIW, I have Load from a Disk. It's a little more "nanny-ish", it only spits out powders it's algorithm deems appropriate. RL17 is not one of the choices. It's also denominated in CUP. @53000CUP personally imposed limit, it would not cross ~2650fps. Your requested COAL is a bit strange to me too, but LFAD occasionally has dimension errors. Could you tell us more about the intended rifle? | |||
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I looked up a chart for SAAMI spec for rifle cartridges. It list SAAMI as well as CIP in both psi and crusher methods. SAAMI specs 35K psi and 37k Crusher. The CIP ratings are 57K psi and 49k crusher. The CIP spec brings it up closer to more modern cartridges such as the 30-06 at 60k psi. Bringing your 8 mm up to 65k might be safe in a modern rifle but in some of the older actions it was first put in it could be dangerous. I reread this thread and you never did mention just what your rifle is. This could make a very great difference in safety of the load and how it effects the longevity of said rifle. Also you call it an 8x57IS, isn't it an 8x57JS? Leo The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
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I dont even see reason to run my M700 classic at 65k. Most of the loads I've worked up so far average 50k through quickload. A 175 grain bullet will kill a deer just fine moving along @2650fps and a 200 grainer @2450fps. I have even pulled back some of the CFE223 loads too. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Need a Quickload Prediction for 8X57W/RL 17
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