Hi guys,
I have a question about bullet weights for my 7mm Rem Mag. Let me first start by saying I normally hunt Mississippi whitetail deer with my .270 using 140 gr. Nosler Partitions and love them. I purchased a Remington 700 Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag because I got a sweet deal on it, not because I needed it for hunting deer in the south.

When I started to reload for the 7mag I had no idea what size Partition or Accubond to use, so I purchased some 140 grain Accubonds and loaded them up with 65.0 grains of IMR 4350 and holy crap will they shoot! They grouped a measured 1.0105" group at 400 with them in ideal shooting conditions. To say I am excited is an understatement. I have killed a few deer at distances from 150 to 275 yards (measured with a range finder) and have been pleased with the "bang & down" performance. I am really wanting to stretch the distance out a bit and wonder if I need to move up in bullet weight.


Just wondering what bullet weight the experts on here would recommend me using for deer size game up to elk? (if I ever get the wife to agree to me going on an elk hunt)

Thanks,

David

If you're gonna shoot 140s, you might as well stick with the .270. IMO, the big 7 was made to shoot 160s. My choice is either Partitions or Grand Slams. I'm a "find a good load and use it on everything" kinda guy and I've shot antelope, mulies, and elk with the 7mag and a 160 bullet. The Grand Slam is kinda hard for use on an antelope but the NP worked like a charm on everything.

Sounds to me like you already have an "ideal" load for WT's.

For elk, the 160 partition is classic.

Nosler Partions of Speer GS's in 160 - 175 gr. I never had to look for an animal that I shot with S Speer GS. They are DRT.

I happen to use normally 160Accubonds since I use the the rife from deer to Elk. That said I've also had great results with the 140s on deer.

After shooting little 7mm holes thru the deer here by several friends I got them to switch to 140gr Nosler PAR and end of problem. That 140gr PAR bullets puts down deer and pronghorns for myself and friends like lightning. I have not but I have friends in Montana and Wy who use them for elk with the same excellent results. If you are happy with the load you have I would say use it. The 7mm 160 gr bullets are over-rated to me. But 210gr Nosler PAR bullets have worked super for me in a 338win mag also and some people think you just must use 250gr bullets.

Don't even think about changing to a heavier bullet for whitetails. The 140 Partition (or any other 140) will kill a whitetail as far away as one can be killed.

All a 160 or heavier bullet can give you on whitetails is more drop and less expansion.

The 160gr Accubond has the shape and weight to fly nicely out of a 7mm Rem Mag, and carries energy out further than the 140gr loads. Not really needed for Whitetails, but its all I shoot in mine.

IMHO stretching the distance out is a little ego oriented. As has often been expressed on AR ,stalking and getting close for a well placed shot shows a lot of smarts. I seriously doubt that the 7mm Mag. will greatly out perform the .270 at reasonable distances. I hope you enjoy each rifle and use them wisely.

I've never killed a WT with a 7mag. I have better suited rifles. But then it doesn't take much to kill a WT but for those of you that think you're doing great stuff with a big 7 and a warp speed 140, starting the 140 out at 3100fps and the 160 at 2900fps, at 400 yards the 160 is going as fast as the 140 and it is carrying more energy. And the difference in trajectory is a whopping 3/4".

quote:

I seriously doubt that the 7mm Mag. will greatly out perform the .270 at reasonable distances.

Very true and this brings me to the practical use of the big seven.....to shoot heavier bullets such as the 175.....and yes it'll do the .270's work for it with the 140s but it's value is for elk with the 175.....

Since you already have a .270.....I'd load the big seven as an exclusive elk getter.

Dave, I find it ironic that you are shooting 1/4 MOA groups and some members are finding a "problem" with this.

My favorite on game 7mm Bullet is the 160gr Accoubond, but I've shot some of my best groups with the 140-150gr Ballistic Tips.

I don't like the 175gr Partitions. They do not expand as well as their lighter brothers.

There is nothing magic about the 7MM Mag. After you get a load worked up shoot it out to 300 and 400 yards. You will find the .270 does not give up much. The limit of most rounds is about 300 yards - if your shooting is really good. Past 300 yards you are risking wounded animals.

Is that 1.xxx "measured group" MOA or an actual inch? Also how many rounds? Also, how many of those groups did you shoot?
If you're shooting 5 shot 1" groups at 400 yards, you might want to start entering Bench rest matches. You'd win a lot of them.

Thanks for all of the replies guys. I an not having a problem with my current 140gr load. I was just trying to educate myself more and get other people's opinion on a heavier bullet. I am very excited that my sendero will shoot this well at 400yds. Just wanted to know if others were having good results killing deer and larger game with a heavier bullet.

And yes it is was 1.0105 inch 3 shot measured group center to center with my digital calipers at 400 yards. The same day I shot this group I was working up a load and had loaded some 63.0 gr, 64.0 gr, 64.5 gr & 65.0 gr loads shooting some 3-5 shot groups with the accubonds. The 65.0 grain loads seemed to shoot slightly better that the 64.5 grain loads, and before I left the range I decided to make a 400 yd group just to see what it would do. Oh, and I am shooting these groups from a Lead Sled, but I can shoot almost this good with sand bags.

Again I really appreciate all of the valuable input and enjoy reading on this site.

Dave

It amazes me that there are so many that are so quick to put down his choice of gun, caliber, or even dare I say a three shot group!

Rarely will a hunting rifle fire several rounds in succession. If his rifle in his hands is shooting 1/4 MOA then that's how well he shoots it.
The 7mm isn't magic. But if his shoots that well it may feel like it is!

His question was about bullets for elk. Not your opinion of his choice of caliber, his abilities, nor it's effectiveness on whitetail.

Why not answer his question with some real world experiences?

I haven't ever shot an elk with my 7mmRM. I think it would work fine with a whole lot of different bullets. I just happen to use the crap outta my .338WM.

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards. My question was could he repeat the group? A valid question since anybody with any rifle can cobble up a single good, maybe great group given enough tries. And too, this is cyberspace.
His question was about elk. Asked and answered. Then the folks got off on using light for calibre bullets at whizzum velosities and how effective they were on WT. And on using one bullet for WTs and another for elk.
I've never understood why anyone would want to be switching off on bullets. Not when you can find one good load and use it, and become familar with its trajectory and such. And too, the constant fiddling with the scope takes time and waste ammo. 'Course the plus side is when you start changing your bullets around, you can always tape a way-cool drop chart on the stock of your rifle.

quote:

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards.

I once worked with a guy that claimed that his 7 RM could hit a nickel at 300 yards....consistantly.....he told me this so many times that I had to call his bluff.....so one day I told him that I'd set up nickels at 100 (not 300) yards and pay him a dollar for each one that he could hit.....he would then pay me a dollar for each one that he missed.....and I would allow him an entire box of ammo to get the sight in just right.....

Off to the range we went.....and not at any time during the sight in did he ever show me anything even close to a 3" group......he said something had gone wrong and called the event off.....want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards.

I once worked with a guy that claimed that his 7 RM could hit a nickel at 300 yards....consistantly.....he told me this so many times that I had to call his bluff.....so one day I told him that I'd set up nickels at 100 (not 300) yards and pay him a dollar for each one that he could hit.....he would then pay me a dollar for each one that he missed.....and I would allow him an entire box of ammo to get the sight in just right.....

Off to the range we went.....and not at any time during the sight in did he ever show me anything even close to a 3" group......he said something had gone wrong and called the event off.....want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

The 140-grain partition bullets are what I mostly use with my 7 mm magnum, good trajectory and enough energy for most purposes. I use them for elk as well as mule deer and antelope (but have only shot two elk, not much of a statistical sample).

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards.

I once worked with a guy that claimed that his 7 RM could hit a nickel at 300 yards....consistantly.....he told me this so many times that I had to call his bluff.....so one day I told him that I'd set up nickels at 100 (not 300) yards and pay him a dollar for each one that he could hit.....he would then pay me a dollar for each one that he missed.....and I would allow him an entire box of ammo to get the sight in just right.....

Off to the range we went.....and not at any time during the sight in did he ever show me anything even close to a 3" group......he said something had gone wrong and called the event off.....want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

Hey Cobra.....I'm laughing too.....

Further I'd be willing to wager that three of four folks that claim their rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA wouldn't be able to prove it at a real shooting range.....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards.

I once worked with a guy that claimed that his 7 RM could hit a nickel at 300 yards....consistantly.....he told me this so many times that I had to call his bluff.....so one day I told him that I'd set up nickels at 100 (not 300) yards and pay him a dollar for each one that he could hit.....he would then pay me a dollar for each one that he missed.....and I would allow him an entire box of ammo to get the sight in just right.....

Off to the range we went.....and not at any time during the sight in did he ever show me anything even close to a 3" group......he said something had gone wrong and called the event off.....want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

Hey Cobra.....I'm laughing too.....

Further I'd be willing to wager that three of four folks that claim their rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA wouldn't be able to prove it at a real shooting range.....

I'll bet on that too. 1 MOA is nice but I wouldn't worry about a rifle that shoots 1½ - 2 MOA, more often than not poor results would likely be my fault. It all comes down to one thing, more practice, and most shooters don't.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

What amazes me is a three shot .25 MOA at 400 yards.

I once worked with a guy that claimed that his 7 RM could hit a nickel at 300 yards....consistantly.....he told me this so many times that I had to call his bluff.....so one day I told him that I'd set up nickels at 100 (not 300) yards and pay him a dollar for each one that he could hit.....he would then pay me a dollar for each one that he missed.....and I would allow him an entire box of ammo to get the sight in just right.....

Off to the range we went.....and not at any time during the sight in did he ever show me anything even close to a 3" group......he said something had gone wrong and called the event off.....want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

Hey Cobra.....I'm laughing too.....

Further I'd be willing to wager that three of four folks that claim their rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA wouldn't be able to prove it at a real shooting range.....

Kinda like you and hunting elk I expect.

quote:

Ignored post by Chuck Nelson posted 21 August 2012 22:57

I have a good memory.

I'm with the one bullet crowd myself, I use the 168 Berger for my 7mag. Have used it for everything from Gemsbuck to Pronghorn.

That light fast stuff don't work for me. Trajectory is easy, wind drift? Not so much. Enrgy on target matters.

Why use all that powder for such a light bullet?


.

Seems to me you have a fine load right now! I shoot 150 gr Loads out of mine. Don't pay any mind, go hunting. That bullet is more than up to the task, for white tails and I would guess it would work fine on pretty much anything else you would care to shoot with that particular bullet.

I was thinking about this thread as I like my 7mm & with my boys getting into my stuff I may find an excuse to shoot it yet.

But really, if you can take elk with a .25-06, or a .270, etc.,.... you can take them with about any thing out of a seven mag.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
It amazes me that there are so many that are so quick to put down his choice of gun, caliber, or even dare I say a three shot group!

Rarely will a hunting rifle fire several rounds in succession. If his rifle in his hands is shooting 1/4 MOA then that's how well he shoots it.
The 7mm isn't magic. But if his shoots that well it may feel like it is!

His question was about bullets for elk. Not your opinion of his choice of caliber, his abilities, nor it's effectiveness on whitetail.

Why not answer his question with some real world experiences?

I haven't ever shot an elk with my 7mmRM. I think it would work fine with a whole lot of different bullets. I just happen to use the crap outta my .338WM.

Why your comments? The fact is the 7mm Mag is just another round. It is not meant as a put down. Like many cartridges it gets a bullet up to XXXX FPS velolcity. When the bullets hits an animal the animal cannot tell what the bullet was launched from.

quote:

.want to guess what went wrong?.....most of us know don't we!!!!

Yeah he forgot his laptop with all those groups in it.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
It amazes me that there are so many that are so quick to put down his choice of gun, caliber, or even dare I say a three shot group!

Rarely will a hunting rifle fire several rounds in succession. If his rifle in his hands is shooting 1/4 MOA then that's how well he shoots it.
The 7mm isn't magic. But if his shoots that well it may feel like it is!

His question was about bullets for elk. Not your opinion of his choice of caliber, his abilities, nor it's effectiveness on whitetail.

Why not answer his question with some real world experiences?

I haven't ever shot an elk with my 7mmRM. I think it would work fine with a whole lot of different bullets. I just happen to use the crap outta my .338WM.

Why your comments? The fact is the 7mm Mag is just another round. It is not meant as a put down. Like many cartridges it gets a bullet up to XXXX FPS velolcity. When the bullets hits an animal the animal cannot tell what the bullet was launched from.

My comments were after a comment was posted questioning his group, etc. I have no dog in the hunt in spite of owning a 7mm RM. I agree it is just another cartridge and no magic wand.

I guess I'm one who's been on here for quite a while and have a perception that when someone starts a thread asking a question they rarely get answers that are directly to the question asked. They are usually responses off base or even negative.

In this thread I see it as this:
1. He's a good shooter and the rifle is capable as demonstrated by his mention of an impressive group at 400 yards. Is he always shooting 1/4 MOA? Doubt it, rarely is anyone that consistent. But he has something there to work with.
2. His choice of caliber was not an issue to him but a result of opportunity. It is however well within reason for his intentions.
3. His question was about elk bullets. His deer load shoot's well. He is having some doubt about using his good shooting deer load on elk. Yet answers mostly seem to say that his set up will work great on whitetail. Yeah,.... but he's asking about elk.

So if his rifle is capable of MOA or better, and he is an MOA or better shot, then the delivery part is covered. To me it seems that instead of seeing people offer valuable input like load data, ( this is Accurate Reloading) or real world bullet tests and results, often times it's just drivel. Arguments over different components can be interesting, but lately it seems many of these threads quickly turn to personal attacks and belittling remarks.

I am now at a point where it doesn't matter much to me what I'm using to hunt with and can adjust to make just about any firearm viable. I'm not convinced everything has to be shot with mono-metal's, and take great pleasure in watching my sons enjoy a day afield regardless of whether or not I fire a single shot. I carried a .30-30 a few times during season last year just for fun. I guess I just would like to see info that gives posters some reality based info that may serve to direct their decisions.

P.S. OBTW, I'd have no hesitation recommending he use the 140gr AB load on elk. I have not done it but they seem plenty good enough.

Again, Thanks guys for all of the comments and suggestions. I just ordered and received two boxes of 7mm Nosler accubonds in 150 & 160 grain. I plan to load some of each up when I have some free time and take them to the range and see if I can work up a favorable load for them. If they shoot well enough, I plan to take them with me on a hunt in November to Kentucky to hunt some whitetails and see how they perform.

I really like my 140 accubonds on paper and how they have performed so far on whitetails. Only reason I chose the 140's to begin with is because that is what grain I shoot from my .270 and had no idea where to start when I acquired the sendero, so I just thought what the heck and picked up some 140's. I usually only hut with Partitions in 140 from my .270, but the accuracy is not outstanding. I had read about the Accubond being a more accurate round and that's what I started with for the 7mag.

So what have I taken from all the previous post?

The 140 grain bullet fired from a 7mm Rem Mag will work fine on whitetails and elk at reasonable distances.

Some seem to prefer heavier bullets such as the 150 & 160 grain bullets. I ordered some to try.

Thanks,

Dave

Fiddle around with a 70-71.5 gr load of Retumbo and those 160 AB's. You should get 3100 fps and great accuracy, as I do in a 26" barreled Rem 700 HCR. I have a VX6 2-12x42 CDS on one of my 7mags, and hitting targets out to 900 yards, when the wind cooperates, is lots of fun and not that hard with that load.

I used to use plain jane 145 gn hot cores from a 7mm RM on deer and it worked like a champ. Never had to use more than one shot. Deer just aint that tough that you need to throw down a fortune on "premium" slugs..

Some of the best shots I ever made in my life were with that combo, not because there was majic in the air, but because I was confident in the rifle and it just plain worked.. Nuthin wrong with that..

I do like Vapos suggestion though of using the 270 for deer and loading up the RM with Elk loads.. Excellent two gun combo there.. And the RM can double as a back up rifle for deer..

and before I left the range I decided to make a 400 yd group just to see what it would do. Oh, and I am shooting these groups from a Lead Sled, but I can shoot almost this good with sand bags.

Seems to me that everyone missed the point that he was shooting these groups from a Lead Sled. And can "Almost" shoot this good with sand bags. I would not doubt him considering these points.

Tony

I went to a 7mm Mag for another reason.

I was irritated by all the discussions that the 25-06 "needed"
120gr bullets to kill a deer.

what bugged me about that was I bought a 25-06 not to match the trajectory of a 30-06 loaded with 165's, but to shoot fast and "flat"

Ok, I buy the idea that to reliably kill deer requires a 120gr bullet.

And to shooot flat requires "Fast"

loaded with 120gr bullets the 7mm reliably achieves velocities
that 257Weatherby owners literally drool over

I can run 120's through my 7mmMag and across my chronograph
at speeds that made my brother stick his 257wby in the back of his gunsafe and buy a 7mmRUM

Unfortunatly with bullets of the same sectional density the 7mmRUM can do no better on velocity than the 300RUM
(Frankly I think the 338RUM is a worthy cartridge, but anything smaller bore with the RUM cartridge is a complete waste)

If I feel I need a >160gr or heavier bullet to kill something I'll use a 30caliber to throw it.

Dave:

A 7mm Rem Mag was my primary hunting rifle for many years. I used it for deer and on several occasions, for elk as well. Like Wasbeeman, I like to find one good load and stick with it. My bullet of choice was a plain old 154 grain Hornady Spire point. It worked great for deer/elk but I confess that I rarely shoot over 250 yards. I usually try and get closer. I don't think I am a 300 yard marksman. I am often amazed by guys on AR who shoot stuff at 400 hundred yards. Under field conditions, I think 300 yards is a heck of a long shot. Now, for deer, I have switched to a handy little .257 Roberts and a 100 grain TSX. It seems to work equally well on deer.

By all means work on the wife to do the elk hunt. Even the cheapest public land DIY tent camp hunt is a treat everyone should experience before they are too old or out of shape to enjoy it. I use the 150's in my 7 mag because it shoots them extremely well. I like the accubond for elk but prefer the Barnes TTSX. Either is more than needed but will work fine for deer. I always meant to go elk hunting with my father and waited a little too long. I'm hoping not to stop until at least when my grandson is hunting with me in about 7 more years.

I guess this is off topic but i had to respond. The 25-06 doesn't "need" a 120 grain bullet to take deer. You may have that opinion and yes the heavier bullets work great but I'm guessing I'm not the only one to use 100 grainers with great results, many many times.

I just used the Nosler 160 AccuBond to take a cow elk at 317 yards. Hit her twice, (hit her too far back in high winds the first time) found both bullets mushroomed nicely under the hide on the far side. Loaded to 3,000 fps out of my 7mm Rem Mag.