The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Dave Petzal is full of prunesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Well not really. I like Dave and think he has great insight and taste in rifles plus the man shoots from the left side of a rifle.  But I've got a beef.While thumbing through Field & Stream on the news stand the other day I scanned his latest article. In it he extols the virtues of the new FN Model 70 as being the greatest production Model 70 EVER produced under the Winchester trade mark. OK, if that helps sell more rifles I'll play along. Then he goes on to pout about no lefty in this new offering. Understandable. Then this. He opines the fact that when left handed versions of the Model 70 were produced between the mid 90's and early 2000's they were nothing but inaccurate junk. Siting two example's (a 270 and 338) of such rifles that couldn't keep three shots inside the lid of a 45 gallon drum or some such nonsense. Having owned more than a few of these left handed pieces of junk. I have a small idea of what they can do. We will not go into the fact that they function, outside of accuracy, better than any other rifle type I've played with. We'll stick with accuracy. In the last few months I've picked up three of them, so last night I grabbed one of them (a 30-06) out of the safe. I reset and lapped the rings that came with it and then mounted a Leupold 6X36 scope (another apparent detriment to good shooting) on it. Then I picked three different bullet types and weights from my collection, a pound of H4350 and Virgin R-P brass that had been trimmed to the same length, referenced a few manuals and past load data from other 06's and loaded 150gr TSX's, 165gr Remington bulk PSP's, and 180gr Nosler BT's. I seated the bullets deeper than I normally would for quick and easy function and went to the range. While I realize these groups are ho hum by internet standards, realize that no seating depth monkeying was done, No adjusting powder charges were attempted, no cases were wieghed, necks turned, blah blah blah. Despite that it is better than minute of drum. Here are the results.   | ||
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Like my new sig line...news media, where one in a row is a trend. You want to make claims about a brand of rifles accuracy try getting say 4 differnt calibers and three samples in each caliber... ...and you might have enough to form an opinion, not state facts. I have owned 5 different factory rem 700s in 3 different calibers. All were 1.5 or better with factory ammo and all easily handloaded under an inch. I feel comfortable in saying that in my experience Rem 700s generally reasonable accurate out of the box. I also tested 10 Remington 700 PSS in 308 win with Federal Gold Match Ammo and they were all less 3/4 inch. I can think you can make some generaliztions from that also, but not much more. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Chuck Nelson, Respectable enough for so little effort. Dave didn’t shoot your rifle before he made his “left handed versions of the Model 70 were produced between the mid 90's and early 2000's they were nothing but inaccurate junk” comment. | |||
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Bet Petzal didn't have anything bad to say about the USRAC Model 70s when USRAC was buying ad space either. And his sample of two is BS. I bought three (3) Model 70s in a row that had a sharp edge on the belt recess in the chamber. Had to unscrew the barrels and polish the area on all of them. Does that mean that all Model 70s were bad? No. Just showed that I was damned unlucky, is all.  "There always seems to be a big market for making the clear, complex." | |||
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Guess I should just dump all 6 of my Model 70 LHs then... It's a matter of numbers, the more you make, the more often someone will receive the "Monday morning/Friday afternoon" rifle. I love the Model 70. Even dumped my Model 700s to do so... | |||
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My early 2000's Left Handed M70 Classic Safari Express is a POS also. I don't know how they got away with it.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Dave Petzal knows what he is talking about. When they have to reverse the machinery - in order to put the bolt handle on the wrong side of the rifle - it causes all sorts of problems. Sometimes it even carries over, after they make things right again, and affects the right sided rifles for a while until the machines settle back down. It was better for all of us in the old days when the nuns would beat the left-handedness out of you whiners and make you do things the right way. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Petzal recently posted on his blog about the pressures that gunwriters were under from their editors to do favorable rewiews of products that were advertised in the various journals. He named names including those of some editors he had worked with. It was rare honesty and forthrightness and not something that any other gunwriter has openly talked about AFAIK. He may or may not have a flawed perception about a certain product, but that aside, I respect him for his openness about the forces impelling the almost inevitable sugary-sweet reviews that gun magazines seem to produce these days. Mehul Kamdar "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."-- Patrick Henry | |||
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I've heard about this and you're right, it can be a big problem.  Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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I could care less what Dave Petzel has to write but I can say that when my rifle shoots groups like your I go hunting. | |||
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That would be 100% true. For anyone who has handled more than one of each, and actually understands firearms, it should be obvious. | |||
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I'll take that for what it's worth. Absolutely nothing. | |||
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