Talking about the bolt action rifles that you cock and decock by a sliding button behind the action. What is good and bad about them, and how do they compare in reliability and longevity to classic rifles that cock via the lifting of the bolt?

just about as bad as a blaser

I just got tendinitis in my right wrist. I couldn't cock a Blaser for a million bucks. I wonder if someone with some arthritis in their hand might experience similar difficulty.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian564:
Talking about the bolt action rifles that you cock and decock by a sliding button behind the action. What is good and bad about them, and how do they compare in reliability and longevity to classic rifles that cock via the lifting of the bolt?

I won't sugar coat it...it can be difficult to cock the rifle on a Sauer or Blaser..mechanism is the same on the R8 and the 404.

I don't think you'd notice it when hunting but there are times on the bench you think that your thumb is gonna snap before that damn thing starts to go forward..they do loosen up a bit though

If you like the rifle I wouldn't let it be a factor on whether you choose it or not..you'll get used to it and like I said it seems to ease up after a few hundred slides

Come to the dark side..you know you want one

Yes, I know I want to

Thanks for the feedback. You people are the best!

My gf is 60+ and has no trouble with her Blaser R8. I like the fact the firearm is inert when not cocked. I don't even remember cocking it when hunting. It has become second nature.

Its more likely you cock it earlyer if its hard to do it and you might uncock it later.

Practice before you head out is the key. In the case of the Blaser uncocking is very easy with just a simple movement.

I agree that people might tend to cock it earlier if it is too hard or unfamiliar.

As it has been said here, with a little practise beforehead , there will be no problem; muscular memory will take charge.
I think the tendency of the best riflemakers is to offer these type of safety/cocking devise , due to its obvious advantages ( despite what is said by those suffering the NIH syndrome ).
Blaser and Sauer are not the only . There are Krieghoffs , Merkels, Steyrs ...
And for the M 98 lovers (me included) , Voere offers an option on their 2155 and 2165 Models. Decades ago I bought their devise and installed on a Steyr M98 in 7x57 . It was very simple, just unscrew the safety/ firing pin and replace by Voeres'devise . It works. Anyhow I remember it was an expensive piece of European
Ingenuity.

Other than handling them at shows and shooting them on a range I have no experience with them but, like any other new and complex device, I wonder how they might be affected by dirt, cold, rust, mud and all the other little things that come with serious hunts ?

There really isn't much to it and the mechanism isn't complex. You are just compressing the firing pin spring with your thumb. It feels like a hard to push safety.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Other than handling them at shows and shooting them on a range I have no experience with them but, like any other new and complex device, I wonder how they might be affected by dirt, cold, rust, mud and all the other little things that come with serious hunts ?

How do you define serious hunts?

Been using my R93 for over 10 years now and its seen everything from Victorian high country snow to Zambian dust - no problem thus far other than rubbing the nitriding off the barrel with DEET and sunscreen.

They do require the acquisition of muscle memory but no more than for a firearm with an auto safety. And yes you'll fumble doing it for the first time in a gunshop.

For hunting highly alert game on public lands rather than pet deer in a backyard the ability to cock the rifle silently is an advantage

I own 3 Blaser R93 (.222 Rem, .300 Win Mag & 9,3x62) and never had any problem with the (de)cocker. I even like the thought of walking along with a chambered round in a safe, decocked, rifle

Im prejudice.. I want nada to do with most new stuff that isn't proven and over engineered..

I like a Mauser, or Win. pre 64, I like the mod. 70 safety, trigger, and stocks of wood..I will include the Enfield also and I love that Enfield hammer safety on a DG rifle..

The only Sauer I ever liked was the old Mauser and it was absolutely awesome..

Blasers are definitely not my cup of tea, seen a lot of failures including Walters piece of junk Blaser, sorry Walter your a great guy, your gun just sucks!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:


Blasers are definitely not my cup of tea, seen a lot of failures including Walters piece of junk Blaser, sorry Walter your a great guy, your gun just sucks!

Any more details or links for this?

At least Blasers have been around long enough now to hardly belong in the "new" category any more. My Blaser R93 has seen use in NZ ( North Island bush, South Island high country ), British Columbia and USA. Has been dust covered, through heavy rain, dunked in snow, collected fine particles of vegetative matter and carried for miles in saddle bags. It's handled all that and still maintained functionality. I have read online accounts of Blaser failures but am only aware of one fairly well publicised complaint here in NZ.
As for me I don't hesitate to take mine hunting, anywhere. Using the thumb operated cocking / decocking slider is purely second nature. Don't ever think about it. I like the pull-bolt mechanism too.
Only complaints I have about Blasers is easy barrel fouling making the cleaning job more time consuming. And the barrels need cleaning. My first barrel was ruined by my inattention to cleaning and became unusable due to corrosion and wouldn't shoot worth a damn. Had to buy a replacement to get this sorted. In the backcountry I make sure I run an oiled patch down the bore every night follwed by a dry patch the next morning. Working so far.
My other complaint is the high cost of barrels, scope mounts and rings. Cost of all is OTT although the saddle mount system works really well.
Overall though I get a lot of enjoyment using my R93 for hunting. It's been a great game getter for me. But I don't neglect my bolt action rifles. They get their turn as well.

About 5 years ago, I was walking down an old logging road hunting cow elk with a muzzleloader (T/C Encore). Anyways, it is snowing lightly, no wind, it was so quiet all you could hear was your breath. I noticed a pair of mickey mouse ears and two eyes staring at me (a cow elk) in the trees about 30 yards away, I raise my rifle for the shot, cock the hammer, and the mountain side explodes with about a dozen elk (I never even saw the others). I never thought the cock of a hammer was loud, but it sure did spook those elk. By the way I am a Blaser convert, I pretty much sold a bunch of my ford's and chevy's to try a mercedes (R8). I liked the rifle so much, I had to sell more ford's and chevy's to get more barrels (my gun safe looks pretty empty these days).

I forgot to mention, the muzzle loader I use now is the LHR Redemption (now sold as the T/C Strike). This muzzleloader uses a similar thumb cock to the Blaser, it is quiet, and it is either cocked or not cocked, no safeties to slip, get knocked off, fail or malfunction. I am not a tradionalist when it comes to bolt action rifles, and I have come to prefer thumb cocked rifles (on bolt actions and muzzleloaders).

I really like the decocking lever on my R8. Whilst it does require some effort, once one is used to it, nothing else compares - it is a more instinctive system to use than any other safety.

And the best place for a safety device is without doubt on the tang.

So we now have decocking safeties on the Blaser, Sauer 404, Steyr SM 12, Merkel Helix, just to name a few that come to mind.....

quote:

Originally posted by Lk Hntr:
I raise my rifle for the shot, cock the hammer, and the mountain side explodes with about a dozen elk (I never even saw the others). I never thought the cock of a hammer was loud, but it sure did spook those elk.

A cheaper way of avoiding noise in cocking a hammer gun of any description is to hold the trigger back and release it when the hammer is pulled back past the full cock position, then lowering the hammer until you can feel the trigger engage. This is one of the big advantages of any hammer gun.

Personally, I prefer the older means of separate barrel cocking used on many pre-War drillings and some post war ones. Instead of a slide on the tang, the system uses a lever on the side, which can cock the hammer silently with the left hand while the right trigger finger remains on the trigger using the means outlined above. The rifle barrel can be uncocked just as silently, and the safety remains where I think it should be, on the tang, as on any break action hammerless shotgun.

My Krieghoff Neptun drilling, 16/16/8X65R showing the cocking lever.