Mr. Atkinson,

So you are saying I should go with a .338 Win mag and load it up/down to suit my needs? I have considered the 9.3x62 Mauser as well but I don't know a lot about it. Does it have the ballistics to put elk down between 250-300 yds, which is about as far as I would want to shoot at game.

If you are planning on converting that .270 then the .338-06 is the no brainer. It is a simple rebarrel. And will easily handle Elk at the distances you inquired about. For that matter, so is the 9.3x62.

While the .338 WM is a little harder hitting and shoots a little flatter, there is more involved in converting your .270 to a magnum.

z1r,

If I go with the .338 win mag I would buy a new rifle rather than go through the trouble and expspense to convert the long action to magnum action.

I have been wanting to do a rebarrel project so I'm leaning towards the .338-06

You could pick up a new weatherby vanguard in 338win for not much more than a new barrel price, makes sense to me to go for the 338win.

cheers closs

Hi

I have built a lot of 338-06s for several customers in the last 20 years, and I used one myself on elk in the past. I used to have a 338 win mag, and it was a great gun. But the 338-06 killed every bit as well as the mag, weighs 1 1/4 pound less, has 2" less barrel, holds 2 more rounds, and I just like it better. On elk, black bear, deer and moose, I can't tell the difference (and neither can any of the men and the 2 women I have made them for)
As a matter of personal preference, I like the 338-06 better than the mags. If I want more power than I get with a 338-06 I would step up to a 375H&H or maybe a 416....but that's just me.

AD--with the 338/06's I've had and worked with they will run the 250's at 2600, you're saying that you can run a 250 out of your WM's at 2800-2850? That seems awfully quick to me but of all out there I do have trust for your word.

Also, I'd say if you want to play the old game of this one is a bit better (which I sort of agree with sort of that is) then I'd make a good play for just going to the 340. I love mine and I am on my 4th tube, I guess I feel about my 340 kind of like you do the 338.

I see it in this manner, in some terms you could make cases for on or another being a bit bettr than the other. Is there a clear winner and does one serve for all, nope. But then again that is what makes this fun.

It kind of sounds to me like the fella wants to rebarel his 270, from that stand point I'd say his original question of will it work and will it work for elk I'd answer yes on both questions and leave it at that.

Now if you wanted to go to a different action would a 338 be better yep by a bit. And would the 340 be better than the 338 once again I'd yep by a bit.

Just my comment and certainly not tossing darts at you AD, or anyone else for that matter!

Have a great weekend guys

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Newboarhunter, the .338-06 is not a wildcat anymore as Weatherby is making ammo for it now(I have seen the ammo in gunstores) and chambering their featherweight rifle for it. The weatherby ammo offers a 210 grain nosler-partition at over 2700 ft/sec and that is serious medicine for any thin skinned game. The only way the .338-06 can recoil as much as the .338 win. is if it is in a lighter rifle because it burns less powder and has less velocity. The changeover is a barrel job only; no bolt-face work or feed rail work.

I think the .338,06 is a great Idea !
I have a .338 win and am building a .35 whelen. If you are simply going to rebarrel the 270, to .338 06 you will be in great shape to shoot any thing from antilope through moose. The trajectory is almost as good as a 30,06. You can get very good performance from a 22 inch barrel. For your purpose I think the .338 o6 is a good choice. That 210 grain partition would be great, I may be wrong but if you choose a 24 inch tube you might get 2800 FPS. Also if you get a real good custom barrel you would most likly have a more accurate rifle than a factory .338 win.
...tj3006

Please note, this is the same cartridge as Elmer Keith's .333 OKH, except the bullets are .005" bigger around (and much better made than the ones Elmer had to use!!!)

He considered this round nearly the perfect cartridge for all North American game until the .338 Win. came out.

It is almost the ballistic equivalent of .338 Win. factory ammo, but of course, not up to what a handloader can get from a .338 Win.

I've pondered this question myself. What I have come up with is this. If you want a short action, go with the 358 Winchester. If you want a long action go with a 35 Whelan. Both ate somewhat avaliable factory rounds at reasonable prices, and can be reloaded with light pistol bullets for practice. capt david

If I want more power than a 338-06, I'll just take my 9.3x62. The way I see it, if more recoil is on the menu, I'd rather shoot a heavier, wider bullet, than the same bullet a few hundred fps faster. Any trajectory differences are a non-issue at 300 yds or less. JMO...

Mark, most .338-06s I've chronographed provide 2700-2750 fps. with 210 gr. Nosler Partitions, and 2500-2550 fps. or thereabouts with 250s.

Most .338 Win. Mags. that I've had give somewhere between 2900-3000 fps. with 210s and 2700-2750 with 250s. My current .338 Winchester gives 2735 fps. in a walk with 250 gr. Partitions, Winchester cases, and Reloader 19 in Winchested cases. Pressures are absolutely OK at all temperatures.

To say that a .338-06 will do all that a .338 Win. Mag. will do is like saying that a .300 Savage will do all that a .30-06 will do. On the lighter tasks it probably can and probably will, but not the bigger jobs. The same versatility just isn't there, and the ballistic figures can lead us to no other conclusion.

To me, the .340 WBY. is a great and worthwhile cartridge, but it's not as widely-available as the .338 Win. Mag.

AD

Allan Day said:

Quote:

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Mark, ...To say that a .338-06 will do all that a .338 Win. Mag. will do is like saying that a .300 Savage will do all that a .30-06 will do. On the lighter tasks it probably can and probably will, but not the bigger jobs. The same versatility just isn't there, and the ballistic figures can lead us to no other conclusion. AD

---

And he's absolutely right as far as the conclusions we reach from looking at ballistics tables!! However, the conclusions one reaches from looking at ballistics tables and the conclusions one reaches observing results on actual game annimals and examining wound channels can be a lot different from those reached by reading something in a book. The old timers often concluded that a par5icular cartridge was good or bad by observing actual performance. For example, Elmer Keith thought the .30/'06 was not as good a cartridge as the .30/40 Krag, but he was wrong! The problem was he was shooting .30/40 Krag-technology bullwets at .30/'06 velocities, and they just didn't hold up to the additional strain. Had old Elmer been able to use Nosler Partition Jacket bullets in those early '06 loads, I can practically guarantee he would have thought the '06 was more than just a jackrabbit rifle!

I think its all arguing about various degrees of excellence. Pick any of the suggestions here and you won't do a bad thing.

As for performance on elk. I wouldn't waste my time with a .338/06. Chances are,you won't notice a bit of differance between the .270 and .338/06 on elk. Keith liked the .338 and heavier,because he didn't have access to premium bullets in those days. They had the partition since 1949,but most still used what ever remchester was providing,or speer and sierra. None of them were really good bullets. To make up for this,keith and others used heavier bullets with more lead to compensate for weight loss and poor bullet design. Premiums have largely leveled the playing field.

I've shot a good number of elk and been in on alot of elk being killed and have yet to see a differance in killing power between the 30 cals on up to .375 on elk. A friend uses a 416rem. more as a joke then anything else and its the largest caliber I've witnessed used on elk. Its the most consistantly decisive calibers I've seen used.

There is alot of discussions on use of caliber and how well they kill. What I find interesting,is the findings of what alot of guides have concluded on calibers. Many experienced hunters will openly conclude that there isn't an ounce of differance in killing power from the 30/06 using a good 180-200 grain bullet up to the .338. I have to agree. For every quick kill with the .338 on elk,I've seen just as many 30/06 kills that were just as spectacular. Most of these guys agree that the first noticeable increase in killing power starts with the .375 and increases significantly after .40cal.

This debate has been going on for years. I recently came across a 1950's National Riflemans magazine,with an article on killing elk. The article dealt with a park ranger in yellowstone,who used both a .375 and 30/06 with factory winchester ammo to cull elk. He shot something like 35 elk a piece with both calibers and compared notes. In the end,the differance between the two calibers on elk,was the .375 provided a bigger blood trail due to larger wound channels.

AD-I surely have a world of respect for your time with the 338, so I will end my input on this with the following.

From the time I have in with the 2 rounds(338/06 and the 338). I personally believe there is on average 150 fps difference between them when using the heavy weights (which to me is what I personally like to use in a 33).

Now is the 150 fps gonna make a field difference, yeah there may be a time or a place where 150 fps is gonna make a filed difference. Not very darn often IMO but there could be a time and a place where it could. And that is part of the reason why I like the 340 the best of the 33's. It will do for the 33's what the 338 will do over the 338/06. It will rarely if ever make a field difference, but I do like to have it in my corner should I need it.

Now if are talking about international travel rounds (and not USA elky rounds)I would go 338 (actually preferably my 375) over the 338/06 every time. And I would say about the same thing about the 338 over the 340 (meaning I'd gravitate to the 338 as well).

I believe the 3 rounds are fantastic rounds and I do feel for what the fella is looking at doing (retubing his 270) then I'd be all for him going 338/06. Now, if he wanted a new rifle I'd say 340 and then a 338.

Have a great day gents and take whatever 33 to the hill for elk that turns your crank!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

I am a serious .338 Win. Mag. fan and have been shooting and loading this superb round for 36+ yrs. I currently own and use five rifles so chambered and prefer a Nosler Pt. @ 2700+ MV. If, limited to only one cartridge for N.A. hunting, this would be it.

BUT, I just turned 58 this weekend and I prefer to backpack hunt the rugged alpine country here in B.C. I also have NO intention of having a terminal encounter with a Grizzly or of giving up my Elk quarter and expensive hunting pack, ergo, I want more oomph than an '.06 or .270 can provide and I have those rounds, too.

Now, here is where Elmer's adaptation of the original Westley Richards .33 really comes into play. I have a Husqvarna 4100 and a Brno 721, both small ring Mauser type actions that are becoming .338-06 rifles. With the custom mods I have in the works they will hold five rounds, have 23" bbls. and weigh about 7.25 lbs. ready to rock.

This is a full 2 lbs. less than my .338 Win. Mags. and the measurable ballistics are about 7% less, thus I consider this round ideal for a mountain packing rifle, especially for the resident meathunter-bushworker who doesn't have horses to pack his gear and game.

The recoil is not a big issue to me, but, rifle weight and over-all feasibilty of a given action with a given cartridge most definitely are; I do not consider a small ring Mauser totally suited to the H&H case and do not want to pay for such a conversion, anyway.

I have shot the .340 Wea. and in that rifle weight-recoil class, I prefer my .375s; I will not shoot at long range as I have no access to an area to practice this skill, 300 yds. is my absolute max.

While I will still prefer/use my .338 Win. rifles for most BIG game hunting, I do consider the lighter, crf actioned .338-06 pieces to be a very sound concept for mountain hunting; there is no advantage and even a slight disadvantage to them for standard weight actions, though, as the Mag in regular rifles kicks about the same as the Std. in lightweights, at least to me.

Instead of the 338-06 why not get the maximum from that basic '06 case length and have your 270 rebarreled to the 338 hawk/scoville cartridge. It pushes the shoulder forward so you don't end up with such a long neck length as in the 338-06 or what I have--the 338-06Ackley Improved version. The barrel and chambering won't cost any more than the 338-06, However you cannot use the Weatherby factory ammo--strictly a handloading proposition. Z-hat custom/ Fred Zeglin has the chambering reamers for all the hawk/scoville line of cartridges. Reloading die sets, also.

I've owned 2 rifles in 338/06 and one 9.3x62. My second 35 Whelen will arrive any day now. I've only taken game with the 9.3, and I got to test it against a 30-06 at the same time. The sample was pretty small (4-5 feral cattle with each), but I felt the bigger bore was somewhat more effective, especially when I hit bone.

These cartridges offer both a combination and a compromise. You get most of the punch of the belted magnums (from heavier, larger-diameter bullets) with a little less range than a light rifle. You also get this in a lighter, shorter package with a 5-shot magazine. If you can keep your shots to reasonable distances and don't mind not being able to buy ammo at your corner store, picking between them is like picking between a 270, a 280 and a 30-06. For practice bullets, you have more options with some than with others, but you can get Nosler Partitions for all, and that's what really matters.

As for reloading problems, I can't think of any. Dies for the 9.3 were expensive when I bought them, but are probably cheaper now. Just work up a good load with one bullet, then buy a bunch of them and you're set. Hope this helps, Okie John.

I've been shooting & hunting w/ my .338-06 for about ten years now. It's basically a .338wm giving up 50 yds or so in range. You are going to give up 150fps or so in vel. for any bullet weight, but you get a lighter rifle & can carry (5) rds. instead of three. For most of all NA game, it's a great cart. I may not have as much exp. as some, more than others but a 210gr bullet @ 2750fps definetly hits big game harder than a 130gr bullet @ 3000fps. Especially on bigger animals like elk in close, a 250gr bullet @ 2550fps is a thumper.
Ray is just numb to recoil, it does kick less in comparable weight rifles. If you back off a 1-1 1/2# then recoil will be about the same. If you decide to go this route a 23" #2 is about perfect. Ammo is available & brass as well. Also you can turn any .270/06 brass into .338-06, good bullets, what's not to like?

Let me give you some more info about why I want to rebarrel this rifle.

1. I want a medium bore rifle.
2. I have a .308 win and a 7mm STW, which basically fills the same spot as the .270
3. This rifle is scoped already so I won't have to buy another one.
4. I am looking for better accuracy than most factory rifles can offer.

The rifle is a Ruger M77 MKII stainless action and barrel with the inletted synthetic stock. The plan is to have Harry McGowen rebarrel it. I was thinking of a #4or#3 contour 24" barrel. He said it will cost around $400.00.

The money saved from not having to buy a 2 new rifles and scopes can be put towards a .375 H&H, then add a scope later on.

If you don't mind handloading, the 338 Ackley Improved (mentioned above)will fit perfectly, and closes the gap with the 338 Win. The 9.3X62 is very intresting, as it is a real thumper with a great reputation. If you went that way, you could always rechamber to 9.3X64 later, as it only requires the bolt face to open to .496 from .473 and that would have everyone drooling.

NBH, don't go heavier than a #3, mine has a 22 1/2"#3 & weighs 8.25# scoped in it's laminated stock. At 24" you will be able to get close to 2800fps w/ the exc. 210grNP & 2600fps w/ any good 250gr bullet. Your thinking is sound, if you already have a light weight .308 & a 7mmSTW for the really long shots, a .338-06 would be a great middle ground. I've shot Duiker to elk & zebra w/ the 210grNP, only ever recovered one bullet. The only time I would switch to the 250gr is timber hunting where I want a bigger thump & don't expect to shoot over 200yds.
McGowen did mine way back when. Nothing against their work, but I would go w/ a PacNor bbl. today.

I went with the 338-06 AI in my rifle, and it has been great. Built on a VZ-24 action, it's got a 24" bbl and Hogue stock. It's a bit heavy, but recoil is not an issue at all with this setup. I can run 210 Noslers all day at the bench with much less recoil than my buddy's 338 WinMag (Weatherby factory). Great velocity and superb accuracy to boot. There is a difference in recoil, and my rifle will do everything his will. On the other hand, finding 338 WinMag ammo is easy and I have to handload everything. Not that I mind, as I load for all my guns, but it's something to consider if you are not so equipped.

The 338-06 in all forms is a medium bore rifle. You could go bigger in your action with a minimum of work by going to the 9.3x64 Brenneke (now there's one that pushes my swing!), but again, ammo availability is the thing. But, the 338-06 is a truly simple gunsmith conversion for your 270: add a new barrel, go shoot. It is a good idea, you'll like it. maxman