Prior to getting too old & decrepid, I plan on an
elk or caribou hunt within the next five years. The
caliber of choice is 7mm. Having reloaded since the
mid '60's, I don't care to reload belted cases, and
am interested in the SAUM or WSM.

My choice is to load all rounds, rather than using
factory loadings.

Please, only those who are experienced in one or
both of the rounds listed respond:

Referencing Hornady 7th Addition Reloading
Manual, the SAUM is 200fps slower than the WSM
with most weight bullets.

Which is generally more accurate?

There are very few rifles available for either
round, but the Rem 700 can be had for the SAUM
less expensively than the WSM can be had from
Browning. Has anyone used either of these rifles
for either round; which is more accurate?

The WSM seems to pack more of a punch than the
7mm Rem Magnum........but at how much more
recoil?

What would be the perfect rifle for either
round? (I haven't ruled out Montana Rifle or
Savage. The Browning A Bolt in stainless can be
had for about the same price as the Montana
with MB receiver and stainless barrel. The
stock would be extra. The Savage would be less
than half of either, but I have heard stories of
horrific recoil in Savage models.)

Any replies are welcome. Thank-you.

The 7mm short mags will not give more power than a 7mm Rem mag no matter how you slice it. If you reload then the 7mm Rem is even better yet, easily outperforming both of the short mags. I know, you don't like belted cases. Which one of the shorties is better...the WSM of course. The SAUM is already on its way out and is the underperformer.

quote:

The 7mm short mags will not give more power than a 7mm Rem mag no matter how you slice it. If you reload then the 7mm Rem is even better yet, easily outperforming both of the short mags.

How do you work that out ?

Both cases have the same capacity, so no matter how you slice it, you should get a very simular performance level. As a matter of fact, i've seem some data that places the WSM 50 to 80FPS ahead of the rem mag.

quote:

Which is generally more accurate?

Neither is more acurate than the other. Accuracy is dependant on rifle quality.

If you are refering to factory rifles, it's a gamble.

The 7WSM is probably the wiser choice, It will nearly match the 7RM in ballistic performance. If you want 7SAUM performance, it'd probably be better to buy a 280. 7SAUM components will most likely be hard to find in the near future.

Sako 85 will probably be your best bet at getting an off the shelf accurate factory rifle in the 7WSM.

Good Luck

Reloader

I own a Ruger 77 in 7 SAUM and like the rifle and caliber quite well. That said, if I hadn't bought the rifle very right, I'd probably have chosen the 7mm WSM.

Actually, I think you are better off with either a .270 WSM or a .300 WSM than either of the 7mm choices. Both are more popular and will undoubtedly do in any elk or caribou with decent shooting.

All that said, I've ordered a Remington M7 in .300 SAUM; go figure.

I'd be thinking long term brass availability on either as my first thoughts!

Hello all, When using strictly factory loaded ammo and depending on which brand/loading, the 7 WSM has just the slightest edge on the 7 RM (not much thought). The poster stated his intended game is elk or caribou.

I have a Brwoning Comp Stalker in 7 WSM with a 23 inch barrel. Last fall when I was developing some hand loads I had the opportunity to chronograph a buddy of mine Browning Comp Stalker in 7 RM with a 26 inch barrel. My pet load for the 7 WSM is using Nosler's posted max charge of H4831 and 140gr Nosler Accubonds @ 3175 fps. I bought a box of the Federal Premium 140gr Accubond (P7WSMA2 no longer availiable) for comparison.

The Federals came in @ 3190. (Factory specs 3225 with 24 inch barrel). My buddy was shooting Federal Premium 140 Accubonds (P7RA2) in his 7RM. With a 26 inch barrel he was getting 3150 fps (Factory specs 3110). So there was a 40 fps advantage to the 7 WSM on that day with those particular loads.

I was using a PACT 1XP chrono, ambient temperature 50 degrees @ 300 ft elevation wind 5mph at 10'oclock, 25 percent humidity.

I didn't have a camera with me that day but both shot under an inch. I do have some photos of some groups shot previously with both my hand loads and the factory loads. For Elk you would need to move up to the 160 gr bullet. I can't speak for the performance of those weight in long or short Mags.

Here is the links to my loads vs the Federal factory load.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1222529/FederalFactoryAccubond1.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1222529/140grAccubond2.JPG

Tumbo,

The WSM is loaded hot from the factory and is difficult to best with handloads, while the 7mm Rem is not factory loaded to its potential and can be much improved with handloads. It makes me want to puke when people give the shorties more credit than they deserve. The 7WSM is already a failure, with the 270 and 300 shorties barely hanging on themselves. When you really dig into it, none of the shorties are really better than the regular sized magnums. Most people buy them to shave a few ounces off of the rifle...hell today you can get a lot of lightweights in the regular sized actions easily without breaking the bank, so tell me what are you gaining? Again, the Remmy will outperform the shorties if you handload and compete favorably if not.

I have a Model 70 in 7WSM and am really happy with it. Very accurate without much recoil and drops whitetails right now. As to the long term availability of brass -- Grafs and Midway have ample supplies at the present time at very reasonable prices. Stock up and don't worry about it. I don't see it as a problem in the future in any event.

When both rounds are loaded to equal pressures (either expressed as psi or cup) the traditional magnums are capable of higher velocities. The short mag hype is predicated on higher pressures. In the end there is no magic just physics.

I have a 7mm SAUM in a Rem model 7 SS synthetic.

I really enjoy having a short action rifle that is light and compact yet still has the ability to reach out to the same yardage as a 7mm Rem Mag, but is nearly 6 inches shorter and almost a pound lighter.

A 7mm short will not kill elk or deer better than a standard action 7mm, but for certain individuals it is a great choice.

As for rifle types I would only look at rifles that are light and compact to make the most out of the concept.
Rem model 7 has worked great for me, very accurate and a pleasure to carry.
The Kimber Montana however would be one that I would seriously consider.

As for which 7mm short.... who cares.

If you want brass for either down the road you will be able to find it. Maybe not on the shelf at every gun store, but it will be out there.

I've got a 7mm RM and a 7 WSM and reload for both.

With the 140 grainers, my 7 WSM shoots 75 fps faster than my 7 RM, despite having a barrel 2 inches shorter and using 1 less grain of identical powder. Sure, may just be a difference in barrels, one a little 'faster' and one a little 'slower' than average, but the difference in mine is quite significant.

Now move up to the 160 and 175 grainers, and the 7 RM will most likely outperform due to the longer bullet taking up a significant amount of the case capacity in the WSM to fit in the magazine.

i have heard great things about a reminton titanium in 7mm SAUM. many have said how great they have got them to shoot.

down here in NZ id think that the 270WSM was the most popular and its probably a similar popularity between the 300 and 7mm WSMs. SAUMs seem to be less common

quote:

When both rounds are loaded to equal pressures (either expressed as psi or cup) the traditional magnums are capable of higher velocities. The short mag hype is predicated on higher pressures. In the end there is no magic just physics.

I think you will find that both cartridges opperate at simular pressure levels. Both cartridges use simular levels of powder to achieve results. There is not enough in it to tell any difference on game, nor is there enough difference to allow detection of differend pressure levels between the 2 cartridges.

Have a look at the SAMMI specks chart below, it indicates that the 7mm-08 and the 7mm rem mag can both operate at 61,000 psi. If your theory is correct, then why cant my 7mm-08 match 7mm mag velocities ?

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

http://stevespages.com/crusher.html

quote:

Now move up to the 160 and 175 grainers, and the 7 RM will most likely outperform due to the longer bullet taking up a significant amount of the case capacity in the WSM to fit in the magazine.

I think you will find that those long bullets will take up just as much space in the Rem Mag case, as they do in the WSM case. Atleast they used to in my 7mm Rem Mag.

I could never get my 7mm Rem mag to perform to factory specs. And that was with 3 different rifles in that caliber.

Having said that I have never had a 7mmWSM.

If I was to buy another 7mm it would be a 7x64. That round breathes down the neck of both the 7mm Rem and the WSM.

quote:

I think you will find that those long bullets will take up just as much space in the Rem Mag case, as they do in the WSM case. Atleast they used to in my 7mm Rem Mag.

Not in my experience thus far. Every SM I've loaded for had a ridiculously short mag length forcing a very short OAL thus, long bullets take up a considerable amount of powder capacity. OTOH, many of the 7RMs have a longer mag length and allow for more capacity.

7RMs can commonly be loaded to 3100 fps with 160s and 3300 fps with 140s. The 7WSM will nearly match with the 140s but it will be hard to get close with 160s. Of course there will be a few fast tubes and a few slow tubes in either causing the results to vary a bit. Both great cartridges.

Reloader

How about the solid 280Rem, this would be the way I would go these days. I do see the attraction with the 7mmWSM though.

But I'm sure if you could use both(280Rem & 7mmWSM) in exactly the same rigs, you would choose the 280.
I've had 270WSM's & 300WSM, recoil is sharp IMO. 270 & 30-06 cases are more of a push than a sharp hit.
I also couldn't see any difference in field performance with a warm 280 round put into the kill zone.

If you lusting over a 7mm short action, just go the 7mmWSM, you wont go wrong. You can always just trade/sell until you find your pet, it worked for me. ha ha ha had plenty of fun in the process.

Thanks, guys.

I'm leaning toward the 7mm WSM more all the time.
It pretty much equals the 7mm Rem Mag and I believe
it can shoot nicely with Rel 22.

Sorry, after further study, have found that
Montana Rifle offers a receiver in stainless with
a stainless barrel, not just molybium. Montana
apparently has a longer magazine than others and
they are willing to set the throat depth to the
preference of the customer.

As for availablity of rounds, one could order
500-1000 cases (the bullets will always be
around, as long as hunting in the U.S. is
legal) and expect to have enough for the life
time of the barrel in either round.

I just hope I'm making the correct choice in
the accuracy department. I'm one of those who
can be satisfied with 1/4" groups, while being
disappointed with 3/4" groups.

Thanks again.

I don't think I'd pick either one of these. The short mags just don't seem to serve a viable purpose, IMO. If you need a 7mm, pick a 280 Rem. If you need more power, pick one of the 7mm mags (Rem, Wby, STW). That way, you'll always have ammo availablilty and you can get the performace you need.

Danno, here is a link to some 7 WSM brass. I ordered a 500 pack when th 7 WSM became availiable. So far no problems with the brass.

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...*652***670***9013***

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
I don't think I'd pick either one of these. The short mags just don't seem to serve a viable purpose, IMO. If you need a 7mm, pick a 280 Rem. If you need more power, pick one of the 7mm mags (Rem, Wby, STW). That way, you'll always have ammo availablilty and you can get the performace you need.

You just gave the best reason to buy a 7mm short mag.

With a 7mm short mag you can have the compact, lightweight rifle like a 280, but you also have the power of the 7mm Rem Mag in one rifle.

As far as ammo availability ask yourselves how many rifles do I currently own that I cant find ammo or brass for?

Like I said earlier 7mm short mag ammo will be out there, not on the shelf at every gun store but it will be out there.

KC: good point. In fact I am still happily using my 225 Win. And brass is still available.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunny Rob:
Danno, here is a link to some 7 WSM brass. I ordered a 500 pack when th 7 WSM became availiable. So far no problems with the brass.

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...*652***670***9013***

Thanks......just got their flyer that listed both
the SAUM & WSM cases in 500 & 1000 lots.

I don't have much experience in reloading but wanted to point out that most reply's are interchanging the RUM and SAUM as the same round. The WSM, RUM and SAUM are 3 different rounds with different characteristics and benefits. I understand that they can be loaded to yeald similar results but are offered for different styles of rifles and needs. I wanted a short versatile rifle in a magnum caliber. I ended up with a Rem 673 Guide Gun and took the 300 SAUM caliber. I'd recommend picking the type and make rifle you want and then seeing what calibers it's offered in. Since you are reloading, the performance I'm sure will be negligable. Good luck.