I always used Hopes #9 for years but the other day I was cleaning one of my heavy fouling barrels and it seemed I'd never get all the copper out. I'm thinking of CR-10 as I'd like to have something a little more agressive/faster for the copper. Any thoughts?

My favorite cleaner is Shooters Choice. For really heavy copper fouling I use Sweet's.

If you will do a search on cleaning, you will find countless threads on the subject. Everybody seems to use a different method and a different solvent. There are a lot of snake oil cleaners on the market so be careful what you use. Here are the basics:

The obvious goal of cleaning is to stip the powder and jacket fouling in your bore with as little scrubbing as possible. You can quite literally scrub your barrel to an early grave. More bores are worn through improper cleaning than by shooting them out. To avoid cleaning damage, you need a bore guide, one piece coated rod (opinions vary), patches, jags, bronze brushes, solvents, and oils.

Solvents are very strong so avoid prolonged skin and vapor contact. Never mix solvents. Always patch out one solvent before moving onto another. When finished cleaning, use a flood of oil to remove any trace of cleaner from your barrel before storage.

Fouling is made up of layers of copper jacket and powder fouling. You need a solvent which will attack both. Unfortunately, Hoppe�s #9 is great on powder, but very weak on copper. In order to remove copper you need a solvent which contains some percentage of ammonia. The more ammonia the solvent possesses, the quicker it works.

The down side to ammonia is it�s hygroscopic (attracts moisture) and can cause problems if left in the bore for extended periods. Some solvents like Sweets and CR-10 should not be left in the bore for more than 15 minutes at a time. When using ammonia based solvents, you should always finish with several liberal applications of oil and clean patches. You should use a non-Teflon based oil in the bore for storage and push a clean patch through the bore prior to shooting.

Here is a solvent list from weak to strong

Kroil
BreakFree CLP
Hoppe�s #9
Hoppe�s Bench Rest
Shooters Choice
Shooter Choice Copper Remover
Bore Tech
Butch�s Bore Shine
Sweets
Montana X-Treme
CR-10

For factory barrels here is what I do:

Slow method - Push 3 patches of Butch�s Bore Shine one way down the bore - do not scrub back-and-forth. Make 10 to 15 passes up and down the bore with a bronze brush and solvent. Push another solvent patch down the bore and let sit for 30 minutes. Then push another solvent patch down the bore. You should see plenty of green (blue for Sweets, Montana, and CR-10) on your patch. If I still see lots of powder fouling I make another 10 passes with the brush and a few more solvent patches. I let the bore sit as long as overnight then hit it with a few more solvent patches the next day. Go to the Butch�s site for more cleaning advice - http://www.bbsindustries.com/index.html

Quick method - Using Sweets, CR-10, or now my favorite Montana X-Treme on a �nylon� brush, I make 10 or so passes up and down the bore to fully work the solvent into the fouling. (Never use a bronze brush with these solvents.) If you are using Sweets or CR-10, do not let the solvent sit for more than 15 minutes. Push a clean patch through the bore. Apply a second round of solvent and patch out. If you are still seeing an indication of fouling, use again. Make sure you use lots of oil patches to remove every trace of these solvents. Corrosion can set in quickly if any ammonia remains in an unprotected barrel.

With Montana X-Treme, I apply as described and let it sit for an hour or more. It generally only takes two applications and a few patches. Once finished, I use a flood of Kroil and then push it out with clean patches to ensure that I have removed all solvent from the bore. I finish with Butch�s Gun Oil and store the rifle muzzle down for a day or so to ensure that the oil does not migrate back into the action or magazine.

Premium Barrel Considerations - With premium barrels, I never use a bronze brush. A few patch applications of Butch�s Bore Shine is all it takes. And I finish with Butch�s gun oil.

Other cleaning ideas - Many also use JB bore past to cut heavy copper fouling. It is a very mild non-embedding abrasive cleaner specifically designed for use in gun barrels. It quickly and safely removes layered fouling. There is an electrolysis method that I would strongly advise against - if used improperly, you can quickly pit a bore. There is relatively new product called WipeOut which claims no scrubbing and almost instantaneous (magical) cleaning, and there are many other mystical foams and miracle cures out there.

The bottom line is to use quality tools and solvents to clean. To be safe, use time proven methods and products. Be lazy and not aggressive with the cleaning rod. Let the solvents do their thing and you will have a happy bore with a long life.

NBHunter
I have a Remington Sendreo in 25-06 that used to collect copper. I'd thoght that mabe I could mine the copper and make pennies or new bullet jackets.
I got a barrel lapping kit from Midway and lapped the barrel as step one. Then I bought a quart of Montana Extreme to keep the barrel pristine.
I clean the barrel at the range with the Montana during and after my shooting then I swab out the barrel real good and clean it with Shooters choice. I leave the barrel with Shooters Choice in it until I go to the range again, then I clean it out prior to shooting.
\Jim

Ditto what waxman said.

I've had good luck with several varieties of "wipe-out"....very easy to use and quick.

Nice summary by Zero Drift. I know because I've tried just about everything he mentioned.

Montana Extreme, I just tried this past weekend for the first time. It seems to work about as well as CR-10 but won't knock you unconscious indoors.

The system I like at the moment for a quick "zero clean" with minimal use of brushing or harsh chemicals is a patch of two or Kroil for the loose powder, a patch or two of J-B thinned a bit with Kroil for the bulk of the copper, and a quick session with Montana Extreme or CR-10 (outdoors only) to finish. Flush with a few Kroil patches and dry it out.

But before I settle on any one system I've got a lot of half-bottles of chemicals to use up.

John

Just get Sweets and be done with it. I haven't tried the Wipe Out yet so I can't comment on that. I have tried Hoppes, Butch's, and Forrest and Sweets beats them hand down. It's messy, gooy and smells and it gets the job done. Just follow the directions on the bottle. I know that is difficult for some, but it works for me!

I have better things to do than wait on my bore cleaner to work.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

[ 01-29-2003, 18:23: Message edited by: Rusty ]

The new Shooters Choice Extreme bore cleaner is a very good product and cleans fast

Shooters Choice Extreme label says to not leave in the bore overnight or longer. It is ammonia free and as I said before it cleans copper and fouling pretty fast. I use it then switch to regular Shooters Choice for the final cleaning, followed by dry patches and finally an oiled patch with Break Free.

The very very best I have ever tried is Forrest. It is a foam that introduced fron the muzzle end expands to fill in the barrel.
It works by itself with no scrubbing. It does no harm to the bore and maybe left over night to work. A few paper patches to properly dry the bore is all it takes. It works so well I no longer use Sweets and JB.
(I do not have a borescope so I call a barrel clean when no traces of copper can be seen from the muzzle end).
I believe it is made in Finland but I don't think it is available in the US. Otherwise I would hear about it from you, mu US coleagues.
montero

You can improve the effectiveness of whatever bore cleaner you use if you mix in some KROIL. This was a tip I picked up from the benchrest crowd. It really does work.
swab and scrub bore normally swab again. let sit 10 minutes patch till patches come out clean.
Kroil is a penetrating/cutting oil that actually gets under the fouling and brings the bore cleaner in with it.
A shotgunner I know only uses Kroil and Kerosene mixed to clean his Kreighoff.

I do a lot of shooting with every chambering out there. I clean with Butch's Bore Shine most of the time. When encountered with a real tough cleaning job, I go to Barnes CR-10 and always get the job done. I normaly don't go over 30 round between cleaning, each barrel will tell you how often it needs cleaning. Good shooting.

Zero Drift,

Thanks for that list! Any idea about Eezox? I've always had good luck with it and would bet it's pretty close to Kroil but I don't know for sure.

I'm going with the Barns CR-10. Couldn't find any around though so I had to order some. I understand that it is great for copper removal, should I keep some Hoppes #9 on hand for the powder fouling.

Forrest is one of the BEST bore solvents in the world. I am told it will be imported into the US as a Break Free product this year. I have a stash of it here but my comsumption is limited due to this fact. I like the Pro Shot copper solvent and JB's. I use Sweets too, I am really not to fond of Accubore. I have used M Pro 7's copper gel with mixed results. The most important fact with all of these cleaners is to neutralize the solvent before the gun is to be stored. I clean the barrel with No 9 or M pro 7 then spray the barrel out with a de greaser solvent and oil my bore with a really good gun grade lubricant.

Aleko

I had a post similar in another site and the information was basically the same.. The question I have is where in heck do y ou get nylon bore brushes. Not one gun shop in this metro area has them and a few catalogs I lokked at did not have them either?????

We have just had an extensive field test done in the leading gun magazine in the U.K on Wipeout,
The results were outstanding!!
It removed copper with ease, powder fouling, and lead.
Its easy to use and you get approx 100 applications per can.

This is a single application with no need for other solvents or cleaners after use.

Griff

Sinclair International - http://www.sinclairintl.com/

They have all the good stuff...

Cochran,
try using the neck brushes from your reloading set, mine are all nylon (rcbs).

Griff

Here is a link to some good in-depth cleaning/break-in procedures from a benchrest shooter's forum http://www.benchrest.com/sgybreakin.htm

The author of the article is a benchrest shooter and top-notch gunsmith. Much of this isn't too dissimilar to some of the other suggestions above. Like many have said - everyone has a different opinion. This technique must have some credibility though since it is the only one described in the approved answers to FAQ at this benchrest forum.

In any case, I found the part about not running the rod/jag all the way out the end of the barrel interesting (oops! ). I also saw this same comment on one of the "matchgrade" barrel makers cleaning suggestions (Kreiger, Lilja or Hart (forgot)). May not matter quite as much to a "normal" hunting rifle, but worth thinking about for an accurized or custom gun.

I use Butches Bore shine as he describes. I shoot no more than 10 to 15 rounds then clean. If I have stuburn fouling I use Rem clean Its like a liquid form of JB and it works great, I use the rem clean in replace of brushes. When finished I put a wet patch of EZox for storage. This methoed works the best for me. The ezox lubricant seems to give me more velocity sometimes 50fps.

Sweets works very well for me

Sweets or Iosso paste

I went to Kenny Jarrett's seminar on barrel cleaning two years ago, and I have been using his method since. He recommends initial cleaning with Shooters Choice for the "gunk", followed by Sweets for the copper. As noted above the fouling is deposited in layers of different composition. This method works, and is not too tedious.

I still would rather use and smell Hoppe's #9!

I would like to try Wipe Out, but I haven't encountered any yet.

jim dodd

Looking for Wip-Out try www.sharpshootr.com/.

I have/used/tried/ every cleaner available commercially and a few I made up myself. Comparing Wipe-Out to most other cleaners is like comparing the accuracy of a benchrest champion rifle to a worn out military POS. Wipe-out will take out ALL the copper fouling, powder fouling and rust there is in the bore clear down to CLEAN METAL and WON'T HURT THE STEEL, INCLUDING the copper stripes. Just READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. Call Paul at 785-883-4444. 11 bucks a can.

It takes 1-2 seconds for a 26" .22 barrel and 5-6 seconds for a 24" .416 barrel for starters. I take my wood stocked rifles out of the stocks just to keep the extra foam off the wood and the synthetics I just open the floor plate and hose out any residue with brake cleaner.

I use Wipe-Out every 50-100 rounds, depending on the caliber, on a smooth barrel and during the break-in period for a new barrel, or whenever the stripes get to bothering me. I also use/used USP, Osso, Flitz, JB, BBS, Sweets, CR-10, Montana, Pro-something, Kroil by the gallon, nylon brushes, WD-40 and any good gun oil. Listen to the Benchresters and what Paul has to say about his product. IT WORKS although 100 cleanings per can is way optimistic.

I took me two cans to clean my fast movers, some of them 7 overnighters. I had been using the smelly stuff all the time and I though the barrels were clean. NOT. My thumpers got the same treatment but took less time, I don't put a thousand rounds a season through them, but they still get cleaned well after one or a dozen rounds.

This is 2003, we now have Wipe Out, squirt it in, leave it for 20 minutes and wipe it out, repeat if necessary, probably won't be....CR-10 is about the same but slower to use...wipe dry with care and oil bore...

I've ruined more than one barrel by cleaning it too much. Now days, I use wipeout and a bore snake. No metal goes down the barrel (except for the brushes on the snake), and wipeout won't hurt the metal.

Count me as a new convert to Wipe-out, as well! One squirt fits all... Gotta love the stuff. No smell, no jags, no brushes, no patches, no bore guides. Especially when Sportman's Warehouse has it in the bargain bin! JMO, Dutch.

Can't find Wipe-out locally. Sinclair doesn't carry it. who does? thanks

I had a rough time finding wipeout (Sportsmans Warehouse wouldn't even order it for me). I finally just called and ordered it from:
www.sharpshootr.com
Glad I did. The guy I talked to was probably the most knowledgeable guy I have ever talked to when it comes to cleaning a barrel. It was more expensive that way, but the information I received made it worth every penny.

Finding wipe out locally can be trying. Next time I need some more, I'll probably order direct from the Wipe Out site again. Mr. Paul's link should be < http:www.paulcousa.com/wipeout.htm > BreakFree's CLP,the Boresnake, and Wipe-Out seems like the best system I got going. Wipe out will clean as good as any one's best cleaning system and will clean better than almost all other systems. One shot of wipe out will show how most cleaned rifles still have lots of stuff still in their barrels. The mechanical cleaning action of wipe out is a couple of patches pushed through. No scrubbing/brushing/pushing/pulling multiple tips through the bore 10, 100, or 1000 times. One application, let set a few minutes or hours as needed, then two patches stroked through the bore. Followed with some CLP and oil. I still like Hoppes#9 for the smell!!

Here's another link for Wipe out on line:
http://24hourcampfire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2HO&Category_Code=WO
best,
bhtr

I like Sweets,CR-10,Shooter Choice and JB Bore Cleaner.

Thanks for the Tip on the Kroil,whoever posted it.
Will have to try it.I read somewhere else that it was real good to use frist when cleaning after Moly Coated Bullets.

Chochran;
You can find extreamly well made nylon bore brushes made by Pro-Shot for sale at Cabelas, Natchez Shooters Suplies, Midsouth, and lastly from Pro-Shot themselves.

Pro-Shots website is: www.proshotproducts.com

Thay make what are my favorite and IMHO, among the best patches and bore brushes (both nylon and PH/BRNZ) out there. Unfortunately, thay only make nylon brushes up to .30 caliber. For nylon brushes for calibers larger than .30 like my .338wm, I can strongly recammend the nylon brushes made by Hoppes for .36 caliber BP firearms. I use them for my .338wm and thay work perfectly.

What ever you do, dont buy any nylon brushes (or any type of brush or bore mop for that matter) whos end has been cut off (leaving a sharp end as a result) as apposed to a nice rounded off tristed end like a Pro-Shot or similar quality product.
I absolutely refuse to run eithor a nylon or PH/BRNZ brush through my bore that has a sharp, jagged bore scrathing end on it. The brushes that are made like this that I know of, are the ones for sale by Outers, and the case cleaning brushes made by RCBS.

As a matter of fact, I use phosfores/bronz brushes a little, and I do mean as little a possible in cleaning any of my rifles or hand guns. I will usually only run a PH/BRNZ brush down my rifle barrel no more than 20 times durring the first stages of cleaning to remove powder fowling, I then swith over to nylon for 100% of the rest of my cleaning.

It is an 100% absolute truth that the VAST, VAST, majority of barells are ruined by inproper claning techniques, and flat out over cleaning with PH/BRNZ brushes.

Hope this helped.

[ 02-16-2003, 23:44: Message edited by: BigFoot 15-4E ]

I made a gallon of Ed's Red for:

1 quart synthetic Amsoil transmission oil $9.00
1 quart turpentine $4.95
1 quart deoderized kerosene $4.95
1 quart acetone $5.95
~6 ounces anhydrous lanoline $3.00

Total = $27.85

How much is Shooter's Choice? $32.00 per quart? Heavy duty ammonia cleaning solution available anywhere there is a janitorial supplu house. It is around $10.00 per gallon. I am still using the bottle of Sweet's I bought a couple years ago.

The copper comes out so much quicker after a douche and scrub with Ed's.

[ 02-17-2003, 04:32: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

The best way that I know to remove copper is to clean normally, then plug the chamber and fill the barrel with household ammonia. Leave it for a few hours then check the bore with a flashlight. When the copper is gone drain the barrel and dry it with patches, then apply oil (I like Ballistol) to prevent rust. Don't get ammonia in the action because it will react with lubricants.

Leo.

Many shooters have been using Kroil added to their regular solvent to enhance its cleaning abilities. I am told that WD-40 can be used instead of Kroil with similar results. WD-40 can be purchased by the gallon at Home Depot and is rather inexpensive.
Just my 2 cents.
VH