Looking to build a rifle using one of these calibers. Looking for suggestions. Which would you choose and why? Also thinking about doing something on the line of a .350-375 Weatherby, has anyone heard of doing this? Maybe a .350-375 H&H AI? If you can supply data to back up your views. Lawdog

350-375 H & H AI is pretty much a 358 STA. 35-378 is a pretty cool caliber, 250 gr bullets at 3200-3300 fps. 35-404 Jeffrey Improved is also a good choice (35 Rock express). The 358 norma is a good caliber, 250 gr bullets at 2800 or thereabouts, I think the Rigby can shade that by a small amount (Paul probably has a whole lot more info on that). 358 Norma and 35-378 would probably be easier to get brass for, although a 35-375 RUM Improved would let you use the cheaper Remington brass, and get you a little more speed then the 358 STA. Big 35's are fun, but they all kick a fair bit. - Dan

What's the intended use?
Do you want something original, unique, maybe one-of-a-kind? A barn-burner mid-bore for taking scary NA game? A "brush-buster?"
If you already have an action, then some of your decision is made for you.
If I had a standard-length action, then I wouldn't attempt a Rigby or H&H-based cartridge, since that would require some serious, serious work on the action.
Instead, I'd go with the 2.5" 404-based case, ala Dakota's line. Just neck down the 375 Dakota brass and go. There's actually more capacity in this case than in the 350 Rigby or even the fully blown-out H&H case (358 STA).
If I didn't want to deal with custom reamer/dies, etc, then the 358-404 SChofield is virtually the same thing, in a semi-custom wildcat. With that, there's at least a chance you might find someone who already had the reamer, and someone to sell you the dies.
Only after these would I take the Norma. Benefits would be, standard boltface, easily obtainable brass (especially if you chambered instead for the 358-338 WM, which is ballistically identical, but only requires a neck-job on plentiful 338 cases), has a belt, so its pants won't fall down. Ballistically, everything we like about the 338 WM, but just a little more drop, a little lower SD (in same bullet weight, but you can do nasty things with a 310-gr .358-cal) and a little bigger hole.

If I had a long action to start with, then I might do the STA, since it's so much more available. It would definitely be cheaper to run.
If you're just looking for a light-speed .35 consider necking up the 338 Lapua.
Or, if you like your barrel, maybe the 358-404 would give you a little *less insane* velocities, and a better barrel life.

I think my pick would still be the short Jeffery/Dakota type, since it would give way more performance than I'd ever want (300gr at close to 2700 fps maybe?), prolly not too hard to download for cast loads (less powder room than the monster magnum-length jobs), no belt, and just a sharp looking round to me.
And then if I managed to burn the throat out, I'd have a great excuse to chamber the 35 Rock Express or 360 Canadian (same thing) or even a necked-up 338 Excaliber! That's your 358-378 Weatherby, but fits magnum-length (3.6 vs 3.75), and no belt!

Dan, Bwana
Can you direct me to more info on the 358-404, 358-404 Schofield? Also hows reamer availability for those and the 358 Dakota (you mentioned that the schofield was semi domesticated.) Thanks a ton

For my next rifle (1999)action,360 Imperial (360 Canadian)This a 404 necked down to 358 the case is the same as the Rem ultra cases.
I found a die set and to get the brass just run 338 or 375 Rem Ultra's true the die.
Bill Leeper (on gunsmithing forum )found the reamer so it's just a matter of time now.
Regards Martin

My mistake, I should have stated that I already have the action. A Weatherby Mark V Deluxe that started out life as a .340 but the guy that owned it had the barrel removed then died. I bought it off the gunsmith. Already have a .340 and a .375 Weatherby just looking for suggestions for a project for the up coming year. Lawdog

Snowcat, as Martin says, there are 'smiths in BC that do this cartridge, and if Bill Leeper has the reamer, he's probably the guy to talk with. He posts here, so you should be able to find one of his posts and send him a PM. Also, do a search on NASS rifles and the Imperial Magnum Cartridge line. The 35 Rock Express is another version of this round, Premier here in town has the reamer for that one (and I'm sure others do as well) but they are closing up shop, so I'm afraid they won't be of any help. FWIW - Dan

Excuse my ignorance here but isn't the Ultra case blown out with a turned down (slightly rebated) rim? It would be great if the Imperial etc line was based off the Ultra case for availability purposes.

Dan--Any idea what Premier plans to do with that reamer? Is it FS? Thanks

[ 05-02-2003, 07:09: Message edited by: snowcat ]

Yes, it's blown out, off the top of my head I think it'd .01" bigger than Jeffery/Imperial/Canadian/Dakota. And (again, OTTOMH) Dr Ken Howell says not to swage a case down more than .005 for fear of working the brass too much, messing with the temper of the head (must stay HARD.)
No reason to do this with 404 brass or 416 Dakota brass.
Of course, it's more expensive, but how much are you sending on a custom chamber/dies?
Get yourself 1-300 proper cases, treat them properly, and you'll be happier.

Snowcat, I don't know anything about the Schofield, except what it is, which is the same thing as the Dakota, but a bit less "Improved" - maybe 4 grains less powder; Howell did the same thing I think, 360 Howell.
The Canadian/Imperial (whatever) line had a full-length 404 case necked down, i.e., a 2.8" case instead of 2.5". You'd probably get more velocity than you need with that one.
A real screamer, aka barrel burner.

If you want a thumper 35, with easily formed brass, the 358 STA is the way to go. It is a fairly std wildcat, with dies easily obtained, and many smiths have reamers for it. It'll drive 250's to an honest 3000 fps, something the 340 wetherby doesn't, and some folks report launching 270 gr pills out at 2900 fps.

As I posted on the other thread, the 350 Rigby is a fine round in its own right, but difficult to set up a rifle properly for it, and not worth the difficulty and exspense of brass over the 358 Norma, IMHO.

Snowcat, I'll ask them next week when I'm in. I already have dibs on a couple of their reamers, and I can just add this one to the list. - Dan

I shoot a couple of .358 STA's. Both are Winchester Model 70 actions, one with a Winchester barrel the other with a "Lilja" barrel. Both are equipped with a muzzle brake, and will recoil about like an unbraked .300 Win mag with a mild load. The "Lilja" is consistently 50 to 100 fps faster than the Winchester barrel. I always load the same loads to try the next shooting session. I can get phenomenal speed with these rifles, if I revealed all my tested loads and speeds, you all would think I was nuts, or extremely windy at best. This past weekend I shot the same load and got an average speed of 2914 fps from the Winchester barrel with a near one hole group, two in one, the third shot with only a sliver of paper away from them. The "Lilja" shot the same load, 270 grain North Forks and 90 grains of RL-22 with Fed 215M primer, an average of 2964 fps. This was a group almost identical to the Winchester, if I knew how, I would post them. I use an Oehler 35P chronograph on 99% of my shots, practising off hand shooting just prior to hunts. I have killed a Bull Elk with each of these rifles, plan to use one in Alaska this fall and dream of Africa in 2004. I bought my original brass from Superior in Sturgis South Dakota, and after fireforming can get 1-2.5 grains more powder in the cases. North Forks are my most accurate bullets, I have fired many Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frames, Barnes, Sierra Gamekings, Kodiaks. For what it is worth, this is my experience with a great cartridge, the .358 STA, that has come into it's own with the offering of some terrific .358 bullets lately. Good shooting.

[ 05-03-2003, 00:24: Message edited by: phurley ]

my smith has a reamer for the 358/378. he showed me a dummy round. good grief!!! it looked like a big block chevy in a ford fiesta....... what a pop this thing must make. he said his customer who he built it for took a few in the eyebrow when he decided to see what it was like shooting without the break. knocked him on his ass right over backwards off the bench. 8.5 lb gun. what a maroon.........
anyway, i dont know velocities on it but if you want a 358 elephant stopper i cant imagine needing more.
enjoy......
woofer

Gents, as far as the 360 Imp and the Rem ultras:
In my cart.collection I have several Ultras and the Imp line of cartridges the actual measurements reveal the Ultras to be .004" bigger at the cart. head something the sizer die will take care of no problem I think.

I picked this round because like Lawdog I have 340's and 375's the 358 STA is not that common and has a belt,Dakota is to expensive and Rem. brass is cheap.

Dan: it true that Premier is closing the shop if so that is to bad I aways liked to visit there.
Always like to talk to Bill.
Do you know what they are going to do now,I hope they stay in the gun business we cant aford to loose eny more.

Regards Martin

Thanks Dan--Let me know what they say. If they/you know of dies I'd appreciate the lead also. I may need to pull that Ultra action I have FS if Premier's reasonable on the reamer.

Snowcat, I'll let you know. Martin, Bill has decided to go farming. He's finishing everything in the shop, and then heading south of Calgary to manage a farm down there. Cam is looking for a smaller work property, but is staying open last I heard. - Dan

Dan,I don't go to the city that often so it's hard to keep track,so if and when you find out where Cam will end up let me know I can at least support him in his new endeaver as much as I can.God knows we don't want to loose anymore gunshops.
Also Dan we have met on this board several times and I would like to meet you someday when I am in the city,just to have a coffee and talk guns for some time let me know what you think.

Regards Martin
mdbeijs@telusplanet.net

Sounds fine to me Martin. I'll send you a PM. - Dan

Dan: PM

Martin

My great uncle sam built a .358 norma in the eighties.I was with him when he got a shot on a nice big bull moose.I have never seen an animal FLATTENED like that.It literally was blown off its feet and landed on its hump quite a few yards from where he was standing .at a little over 250 yards it sure impressed me.Have not seen anything like that since and that was in 1983..Not sure about the bigger .358's but the norma seemed like lots to me.