I have gotten a good start on collection of parts on my next custom rifle, barrel is next on the list and I after much brainstorming and reading I am still stuck.



What I have is a 1950 model 70 winchester, I am also going to use my Control rings and mounts.



What I am going to get this finished in will be a very good grade of English Walnut, and very small engraving accents. All of that stuff is the easy part, caliber is bugging me.



My thoughts are either a 338-06 or a 9.3x62. I don't want to open it up the action and go to a big magnum, I have those there different rifles, I want to stay on a 06 case or similar.



My problem is I have never shot either of these cartridges (which makes it all the harder), and recoil has me concerned. What I want to do with this is hunt deer/antelope class animals with a occasional opportunity at elk or black bear, maybe a moose in a couple of years.



I am not very recoil shy, but neither of my boys shot my heavy recoil rifles well, and any gun I buy or build anymore is eventually going to them. I do admit I like rifles with lesser recoil better, and shoot them more. But I really want a larger frontal section bullet, and want to test the theory of less meat loss. I also know different rifles and calibers have a differnent felt recoil, my light 30-338 makes my 375 H&H look like a maiden.



So the question presented am I worrying about nothing, I didn't have a featherwieght planned for this anyway, or is this going to be an issue. A 30-06 level recoil is fine, my 30 Mags is too much for this rifle.



I had around 9lbs figured on the wieght on this rifle. And I would rather ask the silly questions now than have a ton of money tied up in a mistake.



Any comments on these two cartridges? I think the 9.3x62 is a little heavy for a whitetail rifle I admit, but on a combo hunt with an elk tag its a very good choice I think.



Target shooting is not in this equation, strickly a hunting rifle, recoil and performance on game are my only concerns.

The 338-06 is a good round, the 9,3x62 is a great round. IMHO the 9,3 is far more versitile with superb bullets available from 232grs to 286grs. In a pinch in will work on heavy game such as Cape Buffalo. The 338-06 will do alot of the same but with less comfort room on the top end.
In a 9lb rifle recoil isn't too bad, I've had rifles in both. Available Lapua brass is superb quality and far cheaper than Weatherby 338-06 brass though admittedly not as cheap as remformed -06.
If you ever plan on Africa the 9,3 is the very best choice. If you hunt 95% deer maybe the 338-06........DJ

I think Africa is just a dream, Alaska again maybe, but realistically it would Canada on any exotic hunt ( anything not in my own back yard as classified by my wife ).

So deer is a for sure and the odd elk is the mix. If I ever do get an exotic hunt, it might go as a backup rifle. I quess my ideal hunt would be a combo moose/sheep hunt, maybe a caribou. The 9.3 would be a fair choice on barren ground grizzly though.

The top end wasn't a big concern I have a 375 H&H, and have 404 Jeff figured into the mix in the next couple of years. I usually have two custom gun projects going concurrently as they take so long to get done right, and after whats on my plate the Jeff is next.

I will check out the brass angle but I was figuring on 35 Whelen brass, and do some recoil figures on the light wieght bullets in the 9.3. I'm sure that will help. What kind of performance could I expect on a elk with these though, I thought the 286 was "the" bullet choice in this caliber. I was planning on Nosler Partitions in either caliber.

Thanks

9.3x62 for sure !!

Lapua Brass and woodleigh bullets from 250 gr through to 320 gr soft and solids

schromf, I have both now and from my perspective (and based on bullet weight/recoil issues you named) the .338 has better deer bullets; the 9.3 better heavy game bullets. For medium game its a draw.

I have never hunted with a 9.3x62 and cannot comment on it. I have used a .338-06 for a while now and find it to be a very nice cartridge. It shoots as flat as a .30-06 but hits much harder. Most .338 bullets are tough too. I shoot 210 grain partitions in mine at about 2700 fps. The recoil is not bad either, and my gun weighs 1 1/2 pounds less than what you are planning. It positively slams deer sized game. I loaned the rifle to a friend this year for bear season, and he took a black bear that weighed 442 field dressed with it--one shot--dead. Penetration was complete. He was very pleased with the performance.

My 9.3 x 62 has performed very well with 250 grain Barnes X bullets... I haven't shot an elk with it, but it worked well for moose, bull caribou and whitetails.. My rifle also shoots very well with the 250 Nosler BT but I've never used the bullet on game...I suspect in that caliber it would be an excellent elk bullet, as I'm sure the Barnes X would be if it groups well in your rifle...BTW..I get 1/2" three shot groups with the Barnes X in my rifle...

Unless you're going to Alaska or Africa the 338-06 will do anything you want and I have a friend in Alaska and he's never felt undergunned with the 338-06. It is much easier to find loading components than the 9.3 and the 338-06 has a little better range. Loaded with 225 grain bullets it makes a one gun does all for what you want. I have the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen and I usually reach for the 338-06 most times.

Both are good calibers,I've used the 9.3x64 on moose up here in the Yukon and it is devastating.I'd go with the 9.3x62,you can use 30/06 brass if you handload and speer makes a great 270gr bullet for lighter game and they are not expensive.You also have the 286gr noslers for big stuff at 2350fps.Both calibers are 250yd-300yd rifles anyway so trajectory is not so different.A 9lb rifle in either caliber would be a pussey cat to shoot,so recoil isn't a factor.The 9.3x62 just has so much class and history!

The previous owner of my favorite 9.3x62 took it to Africa and made 22 one shot kills on game up to the size of Eland with the Barnes 250 gr X bullet at just over 2600fps. This bullet shoots as well in mine as the other posters. I think on shots out to 200-300yds the 250 X is the perfect 9,3 bullet on anything short of Buffalo and would probably work on them just fine.......DJ

Boys get bigger. If they�re shooting within their recoil tolerance now, growing into a 9-lb. 338-06, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 will be easy. All are superb choices and I�d bet neither shooter nor game can tell the difference between them.

I�ve had two 338-06�s and two 35 Whelens, but have not taken game with one of them yet. I shot a little hog and several feral cattle in the 450-700# range with a 9.3x62 and was amazed at how hard it hit them. Simply amazed.

As posters here have point out, it really boils down to bullets. For hunting, the .338� answer is the Nosler Partition. 210 for deer, 225 for elk, bear & boar, 250 for moose and Africa. Use Hornady�s in the same weight for practice.

The 286 is the classic 9.3x62 slug, but the classic 9.3x62 shot was pretty close. I think of the 9.3x62/286 the same way I think of the 30-06/220. A 250-gr. slug makes more sense at the slightly greater ranges you�re likely to encounter � think of it like 30-06/180. Also, Nosler says the 286 Partition won�t open below 2,000 fps impact velocity. Do the math and see how much range that gives you.

I use the 270 Speer for practice, as my limited experience says it�s too soft on game. When the search function comes back, read Ray Atkinson�s posts on it. He has a strong opinion, and I agree. Having said that, I�d bet we�ll see more cup-and-core 9.3mm bullets on the market soon, hopefully from Hornady.

Finally, there are a couple of other ways to skin this cat. Try a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 for $600 and sell it if you don�t like it. For a bit more money, convert a surplus Mauser to a switch-barrel rig and compare the two side by side.

Just don�t be surprised if you still can�t pick between them.

Hope this helps, Okie John.

I think the 9.3x62 Mauser is one of the finest of game getters. No other standard size cartridge has demonstrated such proficiency when used on medium-large game animals. The 338-06AS is also an excellent chamber. If It were me, I would decide on how I wanted my rifle set up.



If I were setting a 9.3x62 Mauser up, I would make it a bruiser with 21-inch barrel, tapered to 0.700-inch. Somewhat in the tradition of a stout 358 Win, 35 Whelen or 350 Rem Mag for roaming Alaska, however, the 9.3x62 would show more attitude than those previously mentioned due to some heavy projectiles. But this may not be to the specifications of a deer/pronghorn shooter.



The 338-06 would be more of a traditional western rifle set-up for me. 23-24 inch barrel turned to a 0.615-inch contour. Used in the open more with 180 grain ballistic tips and 210 grain bullets, offering enough steam to roll 250 grainers on a fairly flat trajectory towards big, heavy game.



I don't know which to suggest, except to say, I may have just talked myself into a 9.3x62 Mauser rifle project.



Take Care,

rossi

I've an 8.5 lb. FN Mauser in .338-06. My wife shoots the 210 gr. Partition at 2800 fps with no problem and she is not a big girl. I've shot a friend's 9.3x62 286 at around 2450 in a CZ Lux and I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Flip a coin and then build it.

BBBruce,

Sound and sage advice I admit, but I need another 30 cal like I need a hole in my head, I have several very nice 30 calibers and I am not going to build yet another, half my rifle rack is 30 cal rifles ( 30-06, 308, 30-338 Mags ). And truth is this model 70 is currently an 30-06, simple would be restock it.

Canada is not very far away for me either, the country I hunt I pay attention that I don't drop across the border, into Canada or this year Montana. No fences, no roads, many times I have hunted it but I usually try to stay 2 miles south. BC isn't really exotic to me and less than 2 1/2 hours would put me back on the US side of the border on my doorstep. Your point is well taken though, but in honesty if I am traveling to hunt, Montana is so close, I know the county, the only thing that would get me motivated north is moose or sheep. Another consideration is I drive to where I hunt or base camp, airplanes are not part of any of my vacations or hunts ( 20+ years of extensive overseas work gives me real opinions of my ass and an airplane seats ). So the odds are 95% I packed my ammo, and the ammo for my spare rifle also, and if I am so dumb to forget to pack it I deserve the pain for being a moron.

I hunt with 7mm's and 30's almost exclusively, I have 375 H&H but its too heavy for most mountain hunts. I want a hunting rifle with a bigger frontal section on the bullet, that doesn't dog stomp me on the bench ( I never hunt with rifles I don't shot during the summer, even my tried and true blue get test fired before the hunt ). Truth be know I'm and old wildcatter, but I have a no proliferation rule on this, there probably won't be many more for me, otherwise a 375-06 would be in this mix also, but as I age I agree with Ray Atchinson on this item, and hunting rifles are prefered if they are not wildcats.

One last comment is this will be a 22" tube, me, adler thickets and long barreled rifles don't get along. A 26" barrel to me is a leave in the truck rifle most times, they are great for plains and sage/aspen country but suck the big one in alder. And I know me, anything longer will get left behind and I'll take my old favorite, every time I spot alder in the county. High level concept envision a 1950's sheep mt rifle, not one of the new today ultralights.

Do the .338 or a .35 Whelen . Both much easier for an American to get brass and bullets than the 9.3, excellent tho it may be.....



An 8.5 lb Whelen is easy on the shoulder and on the ears .

Why not go with the 9.3x64? I did my 1952 M70 in this caliber and it is a peach, serving me well in Africa this year. Brass used to be a problem, but Natchez carries RWS brass in 9.3x64. I had a bunch of HDS brass and last week loaded up on enough of the RWS stuff to last me a lifetime.
I use 72 gr of H4350 and a 286gr partition. Sweet shootin' rifle.

schromf

Hey buddy..! if you decide to go with a 9.3 ? drop me a line
or PM me i will send you a bag full of .366 Nosler 286's
It's on me buddy i think there's about 200 in the bag.
I don't shoot Nosler anymore but there a good bullet..

that should atleast start you reloading


Pottsy

Martin,
If he decides against the 9.3, I would be glad to buy the 286's from you as it is my bullet of choice. Bob

Yep, Want not need for sure

As you already have the .375, the 9.3 becomes an overlap whereas the .338/06 is a step lighter . . . a very small step. You are no doubt already aware that the .338/06 is the third generation of a noble family that starts with the venerable .318 WR, a caliber long praised and storied among the cognoscenti of Olde Africa. I have heard from some knowledgeable gunsmiths who rebore that said .318 is also considered the absolute bee's knees among a cohort of fanatic Canadian moose hunters so it won't be the slightest bit too light for that kind of game, or even for annoying grizzlies. I think that you will get just a bit better longer range capacity with the 210 gr. .338's but don't have any ballistic data to back up my beliefs. Still, as has been pointed out, no animal on the receiving end will be able to tell the difference.

Bingo. For deer-sized game its really hard to beat the combination of low recoil/trajectory/energy of the .338 200 gr Ballitic Tip or the 225 Hornady Interlocks. My 338-06 AI shoots 200 grainers just under 2900 with Reloader 19. I don't care for the 180s only because I can't get a load my gun likes.
I know that if you get lucky and get an X bullet to shoot well or a Partition there is a technical advantage but for whitetails my experience has been that it is not an essential advantage. For elk or a high dollar guided deer hunt I might want the extra confidence but it is largely just that: mental advantage.

VFR -

A good point, your comment about the 9.3 x64.

For his described uses, I think he'd be a lot better off with the .338-06. But, if he is gonna go on up the scale, then I think he might as well go all the way to the 9.3x64 if he's gonna go odd-ball sized bullets anyway.

I've got (sorta got) a couple of 9.3's...a 9.3x62 which I've had for 30 years, and a 9.3 WSM being built. I use both 250 gr. Nosler Partitions and Norma 286 gr. bullets in mine, and the 9.3x62 IS a great round. So, I am not against the 9.3x62. I just don't see any need for the potential bullet-hassle and slight added recoil for the uses he describes.

Best wishes,

Alberta Canuck

I have a 9.3x62 and reload extensively for it. Believe me when I tell you there is no, repeat, no problem in getting any components for it. There are bullets available made in the USA 250BT and 286 Partitions from Nosler, 270 soft point from Speer, and 286 solids and 250 X bullets from Barnes. In addition, I have been able to get Lapua, Woodleigh and now Privi bullets for my rifle.

I have taken a number of animals with my rifle in the size of the animals you mention, and it is a flat killer with the 250BT or heavier bullets.

I am currently preparing for a hunt in Africa with this rifle, and it is a delight to reload and shoot. My rifle is slightly heavier than 9lbs with scope and mounts, and recoil with full house loads and heavier bullets is stout; however, recoil is less than a 375HH and probably on a par with a 300WM with a heavier, 180 or 200 gr, bullet.

Loaded to published data, the recoil would be within the range of a 7mm RM or 30-06 with 180 grain bullet at max. Because of the bullets' incredible ballistic coefficient, they will penetrate like you would not believe at modest velocities. Therefore, if you will not be shooting at ranges over 200 yards, you can keep velocities and resultant recoil down and just enjoy this wonderful old cartridge. It will kill well without much meat damage. Further, anywhere, but in the USA, you can probably find factory loads for it.

Best of luck, have a wonderful holiday, and a prosperous new year. Ku-dude

Well , I have to take it back . Happened by Mitchell today , so whipped into Cabelas. Lo and behold , in the Bargain Cave there was 1 !! box of 9.3 mm bullets; Woodleigh 286 gr full metal jackets ! "Reduced" in price from $60 to $55 ! Ha!



As far as Whelen or .338/06 factory load compatibility goes , they have the same headspace dimentions as the parent 30/06 , and the correct measurement is hardly a big mystery anymore. Matter of fact , my Whelen was chambered with an old Clymer reamer rented from one of the AR members , and I have not had one bit of trouble using factory loads or the Remington factory cases . Remington Whelen ammo is fairly common in these parts , and you can get the Federal loads in Sioux Falls . Also no problem reloading with standard Hornaday Whelen dies .



But I'll grant you any of these cartridges are at their best when reloaded.......

While there may not be a big difficulty getting 9.3 bullets mail order , I have yet to see a single box of .366 bullets or any 9.3 brass or factory loads on a retail shelf anywheres within 200 miles of here , and that includes some pretty fair shops like Cabelas and Sportsman's Warehouse .

Yet .35 Whelen factory loads are common and I have even seen the Weatherby .338/06 loads.

For the American shooter , I'd still take the easy availablility of the .338 or .35 caliber components.......9.3 ain't quite here yet.......

Those 35 Whelen and 338-06 loads you saw may fit some rifles chambered in either of those formerly wildcat cartridges. Whether they will fit "your" rifle is anybodies guess unless you buy a factory rifle, and then who knows?

The 9.3x62 was and is a factory round with factory specs. When you order a reamer, it ought to be within the specs for the factory cartridge. If it isn't, it is a good reason to send the reamer and/or barrel back and asked for you money back.

I have not had occassion to use factory ammo, but in a modern action, factory ammo significantly reduces the capabilities of the round. For a person who reloads, it is really an incredible package. Ku-dude

My Jury is still out on this, I have had my nose on line, in my library, and been hunting down odd bits of information. I see advantages to both at this point. In the 9.3x62 favor I see Norma brass is a little cheaper in the 9.3. It is an old established round and all the little details have long since been rung out like barrel twist etc. Bullets seem to be a little more difficult to find, but this is a moderate inconvience more than a problem, Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Norma are all making bullets and a phone call and a credit card fix that.

I got to give bullet selection to the 338 though, there is a lot of stuff available in this bore. One detail I have flagged right now and need to sort out is barrel twist, I was only looking at either a Krieger or a Walther barrel on this rifle and I see only one twist rate 10-1 in the .338 bore and I am concerned that with the lighter bullets that isn't the ideal twist rate. I need to do some further research on this point, I have run across at least one source that was having keyhole issues with this. I plan on doing some homework on this just haven't had the time.

Another minor disadvantage on the 338-06 is only Weatherby has a rifle or ammo for this right now. It is just a half step out of wildcat status in my mind, if Weatherby bails on this it could be just a sizzle and a fart and its gone. Its a real easy cat to feed I admit, and I don't see 35 Whelen brass disappearing anytime soon, and resized 30-06 brass is always going to be an option.

I am headed up to see my smith later this week, and details on this rifle are on the agenda. I will update if I have something to add after that conversation.

schromf,

I just wanted to mention this in case you weren't aware of it:
Graf's has Graf brand 9.3x62 brass for a very reasonable price. $33.99 per 100. Also, they are carrying the Prvi Partizan 285 gr 9.3 bullets. $18.99 per 100. I've been using the Prvi bullets for practice and I have been very pleased with their accuracy. For the price, they make a great practice load. I'm also happy with the Graf brass. ( http://www.grafs.com/ )

-Bob F.

schromf -

Have recently gone through what you are going through and finally settled on one. I have a pre-war Model 70 30-06 that I'm collecting parts to make into a 338-06. It just came down to keeping the '06 theme in a classic sporter. I will, in the future, also have a 9.3x62 but it will be in a Mauser action, in keeping with my theme.

The responses you have received are similar, pick one, you won't be sorry.

If you do have a 375 H&H, I'd definitely go with the 338-06.

Good luck in your decision.

I just went over to the local Blacksheep, and they had loaded ammo, and brass for the 338-06. Plus the usual great selection of 338 bullets. What they didn't have is anything in 9.3, zip.

I think the advice on sticking with a 338-06 on this rifle makes some sense, and it gives me a reason or excuse to buy a CZ or build a mauser chambered in the 9.3.

Lucky man,
in Europe is the opposite.
If I have to give a suggestion to a friend, here in Europe, I should say that .338 works on the light side and .366 on the heavy one, or that 9.3 starts (232grs -> 320grs bullets) where .338 finish (max 250grs I found)
A wide choice of components exists for 9.3 in Italy, I do not remember the same for .338.

Having hunted a good deal with both, I have to say the 9.3x62 is the better killer of game IMO...It beats the 338-06 and 35 Whelen on the larger game, with no sugnificance different on smaller stuff..that said the 338 Win. is the better of the three...

Today I shoot the 9.3x62 and the 338 Win. and I am satisfied with these calibers. I have killed Cape Buffalo with both using heavy Woodleigh bullets, and with satisfaction, but neither would be my first choice for the black bulls..The 338 with a 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2400 FPS is a devastating killer of big game and a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS will give any 300 a run for the money...The 9.3 x 62 with a 320 gr. bullet at 2350 FPS and a 250 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS is also a force to contend with.

I quit the 338-06 when I got my first 338 Win. Like Elmer Keith, I found out it just did a better job when pushed from a belted case and with no significant increase in recoil, regardless of what some claim in the recoil dept...

Another looked over caliber that will equal any of them is the 9.3x64, it rivals the 338 Win. and the 375 H&H, may just be the best all around caliber in the world today and can be built on a standard length action with very little modification of the action...and today brass is readily available.