I am having a flyweight rifle built for back pack sheep and caribou hunts. It will be on a short Mod. 700 or a model 7. The barrel length will be 22" My gunsmith will look after all the other stuff. The rifle is expected to be under 6 pounds.

Cartridges that I have been considering are:

7mm-08AI with a 150gr. bullet.
270WSM with a 140 gr. bullet.

What cartrige/bullet weight would you recomend and why for this set up?

Thanks,

Daryl

I have a 7-08AI in a Rem TI. I'm really happy with it so far. I think it delivers plenty of power and shoots flat enough for my shooting ability. I've used 140gr bullets mostly so far. Used a 140gr Nosler for my sheep last year and was happy with the performance (235yds) I'm going to give the 120gr Barnes TSX a try this year as they are a little bit flatter shooting and I like the performance of the TSX. The 120gr should be plenty for sheep and caribou. My experiece has been that neither species is that hard to kill. My rifle is right a 6lbs with scope BTW.

I was never a big Weatherby fan but a few years ago I ended up with a Wby Ultra Lt Wt in .280 Rem. It has slowly but surely kicked quite a few of my traditional rifles to the back of the gunsafe. It is VERY accurate. That may be a fluke as I have read of others having problems getting theirs to shoot.
I have std steel Leupold rings and 2 piece bases and a 2.5-8X scope. A lt wt nylon sling and 3 rds of ammo and it weighs exactly 6 pounds 15 ounces.

I have found that the 2 pound difference (or more with a few of the big mags) between it and a few of my other rifles makes me grab it over a few of the others. The level of accuracy helps too.

Nothing wrong with a light rifle. One can go TOO light though. As far as caliber. Bullets right now are so good , they hold together so well that one can get away with a .270 win or .280 Rem on large game with proper placement.
Talking elk, sheep and the like.

If your set on a true short action the 7mm-08 AI would be cool. I tend to favor the 7mm's as there are so many good bullets available and I HAVE easily killed a mess of game with a pair of .280's and 150 NP's.

Take any and all of the above with a grain of salt. Your OWN mileage MAY vary.

FN in MT

When I lived in Alaska I built a mauser Mark X in 7x57 (could just as easily be a 7mm-08 or 6.5x55) with a 2-7x Leupold compact and a Bell Carlson stock and a double set trigger. It was able to kill Sheep, goats, deer, caribou and black bear with one shot each. That was my wife's rifle....I used a .280 in a Rem Mtn rifle in a walnut stock and the same scope. Non magnum 7mm rifles are awesome!!!! They don't hurt you , but kill very well!!!

Thanks for the replies, Finlay and FN.

I have a lightweight rifle chambered in a 30-338 that weighs 6 lbs. 12 oz. with scope and talley mounts. This is by far the best rifle I have ever owned. It is also the most accurate rifle I have ever owned.

A friend of mine who built this rifle builds some real lightweights that shoot. Plus, the area I want to hunt, I have to hoof it for a considerable distance , so it justifies the need. Every single aspect of my gear has to be gone over. I plan on killing some good animals in the next couple of years and I am going to suffer a bit for it. I have considered using a peep site to cut back the weight. If I can't access the area, I can't hunt it, plain and simple.

Flat trajectory is relative to me. To hit a small object at 500 yds or less is just as easy with a .308 Win as it is with a 300 Mag. Actually easier with the .308 IMO.

I like bullets on the heavier side for caliber for several reasons. One, is that if I see a dandy grizzly and assuming that the range is reasonble and the conditions are favorable at the time, I would take him too. The 7mm-08 and 150 gr. bullet will do just fine.
I wanted to see what my options are and I know this is the place to come to get good info.

the 7-08AI seems like it will be the proper tool to do the job.

Daryl

If you are thinking of using a 7mm-08 AI you may also want to consider a .284 Win in its standard or improved form, both will better the performance of the '08 improved.

Like Frank, my own lt.wt. is a .280. It's built on a M70, Leup. 3-9comp. slim wood stock. It weighs in just over 7 1/4# w/ a 23"bbl. You can shave abit of weight going to 22" bbl. & short action, maybe another 1/2#. I like the .280 in ths light a rifle, recoil is soft, even w/o recoil pad.
If you have to have the SA, a 7-08AI makes a lot of sense. Another round to think about would be a 7SAUM. I think the SAUM is a better fit than the WSM in true SA. It would also give you a bit more smack w/ 160grNPs if you are intent on spankin a mt. grizz. You could just get a M700Ti in 7SAUM & call it good.

Either cartridge or a 7mm SAUM or 284, for that matter.

My flyweight is a 280 throated for 150 NP in a Remington TI with a LW synthetic stock. I asked for a 24" #3 contour for a little weight out front (.610@muzzle). Its predecessor has a #1 contour and waved all over when I was winded up in the hills...which was quite often...

With a Lupy 6x36 in Weaver detactable mounts it comes to 6# even.

If I did it all over again I would use a SA Rem TI, (if there is such a thing) and save a half an ounce or so....but this one is just fine.

What about a 260rem? Or, as you are happy with wildcats, a 270/08 seems designed for your purpose...

I'd be happy with either one but if I had to chose I'd go for the 270 WSM. I have a 300 Win Colt Light Rifle with Mel Forbes' NULA stock and it has pushed a bunch of my other rigs to the back of the safe too. 6.6 lbs with Leupold 3x9 and not hard to shoot. I think his stock is the best light gun stock I've ever held or shot.

I recently picked up a lightweight barrel for a Sako in 300 Win Mag. I'll find an old Sako Magnum action and have some lightening cuts made. Not the lightest rifle available, but good for anything out there.

LD

tigger,
I have heard good things about the NULA stock. Did Mel fit it to your action?

It wasn't necessary. It's a drop-in he makes for the Colt guns. But I did have to relieve it a little around the safety.

He keeps a few in stock in basic black with the same 13.5 LOP. I ordered mine with a camo paint job and 14.5" LOP, no extra charge just a little wait. I can't say enough good things about it. Wonderful design and execution.

I have a browning micro mediallion in 7-08 with a 22" krieger barrel. Other than my guide gun, in 45-70 its my go to gun when I need something fast and light.
gwb

Thanks again for the input.

I have always liked the 284 but the info I am getting that it is not really ideal in a SA.

The 260 is a reasonable choice and I though about it but I have a shit load of 284 bullets.

The 7mm saum, I have not considered. I will look into it. In the titanium action would be nice. It would be ideal for when I am guiding sheep hunts.

Anouther thing I should check into is those TSX bullets that I have been hearing lots about. I know nothing about them yet. I have been shooting everything with Nosler's Accubonds. They have been very good to me.


Daryl

Might want to look at Kimber's rifles. Some short action,long action and wsm calibers.Montana series are really light. Just a thought. "straight shootin to ya"

Oh, weatherby ultra light in standard long action's like 280 @ 53/4 lbs.Picked one up the other day felt good to me. If the fibermark I just bought does good might look into gettin an ultra light after the colorado trip!

The .280 Rem would be my #1 choice... It's amazingly flat-shooting (only a teeny bit less flat than a 7mm Rem Mag) and far more pleasant to shoot.

Pick the rifle that suits your fancy, but the .280 Rem is a fantastic round.

What about a 6.5x284?

You get Lapua brass for it.. #1 choice in 1000 yard benchrest. 130 grain Sirrico with a bc of .571 should do a nice job at whatever ranges you want, and light recoil. Or 6.5x55

Personally Ive been thinking of building a little manlicher in 7X57 on a Mauser action. That is the one to go with if you want an AI. But if your going with a remington action I would take a hard look at the 7mm SAUM, the WSM's really stole their thunder but I think the SAUM's would be every bit as good if not better, perfect case capacity IMHO. That is assuming that you reload, if not then I reccomend the 7-08. I would never bother making an AI chambering from any 308 based cartridge. Not enough returns to justify it. Love my 257 AI though. The AI improvment generally works best on cases with a lot of taper.

I have been looking at your ideas. They all look good. I definately want to stay with a SA.
I do not know why I have totally ignored Remington's SAUM's. This is the way I am starting to lean.
I agree that AI the 308 based cartriges is splitting hairs.

All things considered, what does it really matter for the amount game that I will actually kill with it at longer ranges. If I happen to run into a nice bear that is to good to refuse, he is not going to notice the difference wether it is a 7mm-08 or a 280 at 100 yards.
I guess what is most important is that it is lite. I will deal with the stability issues for the amount I will use it. It is like my 45-70 GG. It has been everywhere and is well worn. Yet it has killed only a few head of game.
I think it will be neet to have a lite little rifle that I will hardly notice, especially on the way out.

Daryl

.260 AI or standard which is probably better/easier to deal with. Drive the 130 Swift Sirroco, or the Nosler Partitions, or the Hornady InterBonded... Before deciding run a ballistic program for drop, energy and wind resistance/deflection.

I would use a Rem Mod 7 action in 308.
In fact a factory mod 7 SS would be hard to beat. There is little or no difference in field performance between a 20 and a 22 inch bbl in 308.

I think you have made severel good choices.
I am not sure you would gain much with AI ing a 308 class round, but its kind of fun I guess.
A .7mm08 A .308 or a .260, all would be great rounds, all are more or less equal in regards to trajectory , some will disagree ,but all are 300 to 350 yard cartridges for most of us, a little more if you are reall good.
A custom model 7 would be a great pack rifle, I would go 22 inch, probably a .260, McMillan stock 2.5X8 leupold , prety hard combo to beat...tj3006

Not sure what a 'flyweight' is but if it's a four pound rifle it's going to jump out of your hands in 270 WSM. I would find a way to make the 308 based rounds work.

I have Kimber Montana's in 7mm-08, 308 and 270 WSM and the 308 is 6.1 lbs with a scope. That rifle could weigh less and still not kick much what with the Decelerator pad and shooting 150's.

FWIW, I favor the 57mm case, 257 Roberts & 7X57 in particular. If you like plain jane vanilla, go for the 308.

quote:

If your set on a true short action the 7mm-08 AI would be cool. I tend to favor the 7mm's as there are so many good bullets available

Yes, the 7mm-08 is a great cartridge but also consider the 7mm WSM and 284 winchester as both of these cartridges are suitable for a short action.

I too tend to favour the 7 MM caliber and the excellent range of bullets avaliable for it, I guess it all depends on the amount of performance you want and the levels of recoil you can tolerate.

Dont rule out the Tikkas for a lightweight and super accurate rifle at 6 1/4 lb for a non-magnum caliber you wont find a more accurate rifle out of the box, and then you wont need your gunsmith. 7mm-08, 25-06, 270Win, 6.5 they will all work.

Since you mentioned the 7-08 A.I. you obviously reload.

That being the case I would opt for the 7mm WSM as there is a vastly wider bullet selection in 7mm compared to .277.

No one has mentioned the issue of barrel length and I think you need to consider that in relationship to your cartridge choice. With a 7-08 Improved or a .284 or anything larger, you won't want less than a 22" barrel. Otherwise, you really are defeating the purpose of having that extra case capacity.

However, if you stay with a factory .308 based cartridge such as .260 Rem. or 7mm-08, then you can go to a 20" barrel length and not have to worry about blowing much unburned or partially burned powder out the muzzle. With one of those cartridges, a 22" tube would be nice, but it is not terribly ineffcient not to have one.

I don't know how tall you are, but a bolt gun with a .20" barrel is a very handy package. You can carry it muzzle down at the wrsit/grip portion of the stock and not hit the ground. It is very handy.


Jordan

I have just the ticket for you. It's not nearly as sexy as a new Ti custom but fits your description pretty well. She's showing her age a bit though.
It's a Rem 600 in .308W with a 2.5x Weaver scope. If you can hold it steady, it shoot's just fine out to 300 yards. The barrel is even shorter than what your talking about. You don't loose enough in velocity to make a big difference inside of three hundred yards. Truth be told, more game is taken at much closer distances.
If I were to be shopping for somthing similar, I'd probably go with a 7-08 or .308, and go light and short. Probably no more than a 20" barrel. In fact a while back there was an article in one of the rags where they cut a barrel down a bit at a time, and I believe they were satisfied that 20" was nearly ideal for the .308.
The 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, or any of the short fat mags for that matter may be a bit much in as small a package as we're talking about. The 22" barrel and more scope would bring the weight up a little and may help the recoil enough to be feasible but I'd like to try one out before having one built.

Another option noone has mentioned that I saw anyway is the .338 Federal. Not flat shooting but if you are seriously considering bears it may be one to consider. Say a 22" bbl with a 210gr NP ? Nate

I agree with tigertate! I have (2) of Melvin Forbes rifles in 270 WSM & 300 WSM. Very well balanced, comfortable to shoot, VERY accurate, and under 7 lbs. (would be less, but have 4.5-14 scopes on both). Also have a Colt Light in 300 Win. with Lonewolf lightweight stock that goes under 7 lbs. with 3.5-10 Vari XIII. Also very accurate and can shoot all day long from bench (has Answer brake). Lots of good choices out there now in lightweights; good luck on your selection. By the way, the 270 WSM has moved to the front of the safe as my "go to" rifle!

Back in Sept of '82, I was at the Crossroads of the West gunshow in Salt Lake City. Since I was a single Buck sergeant in the Army with no bills to speak of, I had some money burning a hole in my pocket. I'd decided to have a custom light weight mountain rifle built. If memory serves, a small ring mauser built on a minimal walnut stock was the typical way to go. I had recently seen an article in a gun rag about fiberglass stocks, which at the time were just starting to come to the publics eye. It got my curiosity peaked. While at the gunshow, cruising for a 'smith to start my project, I ran across a 'smith out of Janesville, CA. He had on hand 1/2 dozen of his latest custom touches. They all wore fiberglass, had plenty of metal removed in places like the action, bolt and barrel, and most had camo paint jobs that realy tickled my fancy. After 1/2 return visits to his table to continue my queries, I finally ordered one.

-Rem 700, LA, factory 22" barrel turned down to a toothpick (.550" muzzle) with more turned off the cylinder, just forward of the reciever. Deep recessed crown.
-Leupy M8 4x set in 2 pc Conetrol bases and rings.
-Factory trigger set for 3 crisp pounds in an ADL trigger guard and blind ADL mag well.
-Receiver was blueprinted and trued up to the barrel. It also has lightening cuts around the mid portion as well as both sides of the rear reciever bridge. Bolt was swiss cheese drilled.
-Entire rifle, sans the bolt, safety and trigger, are painted in a durable (though is has earned some chips) paint in a "pinebough" finish.
-Stock was slings studs and a 1" black Deaccelerator pad.

Took delivery the Fall of '82. With proper 180 gr, 30-06 loads worked up it has been a sub to just plus MOA rifle with it's best running .337". Something I learned the first year with this rifle was the muzzle flip was excessive. The barrel would literally come up and off the front rest, landing on the bench if I didn't hold my left, non-firing hand lightly over the scope. Off to Mag-Na-Port to tame the jump. The porting has worked quite well. Recoil now comes straight back.

At 6 lbs 8 oz, I've become accustomed to the 180 gr recoil, even when I've found powders which would push the bullet to 2775 fps. I believe that's 35.2 lbs of recoil if my EXCEL program was put together correctly to run the recoil formula. Before I rebarrel this summer (over 2000 rounds with accuracy falling off)to 30-06AI, I plan on pushing some 200 gr Speers to see where my recoil level lies. The AI, if pushing 200 gr to about 2760, whould reach 38.1 lbs of free recoil.

Here are some pics.