.358 Norma
Not sure why it didn't take off better in North America, but if I had to pick an all-around, the Norma would be my choice.
I like my .375's, although they seem overkill on a lot of game, and I have 4 or five 30-06 rifles and I would say they can handle the bulk of anything we have to hunt here. However, I also own 2 rifles in the 358 Norma, and if there was ever a rifle to reach out and touch something with a bit more authority, this would be my vote for an all-around "go-to" gun.

You could use a .25ACP for everything if Blaser made it.

It really is just a 350 Rigby +p+. Which, even with light-ish 225 Gr bullets had no flies on it. The 358 Norma is just more of that good thing I think.

WOW; I am not the only one....

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I'm in the middle of building me a 416 Rem.
Why, you ask....because I can and I didn't have one until now.

It's going to be a thing of beauty with the Turkish walnut stock once done (shootable art). I'm in the middle of inletting as we speak.

Do I need one? Oh hell no but I don't NEED 7/8 of the guns I have now!

I'm an unapologetic gun whore.

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy j:
.358 norma mag. THE most overlooked for coverage on anything in North America. I would step it up for global hunting to either a .375 or maybe the 416 rigby.

I can honestly say after shooting a number of animals with the 358 norma Magnum that if one loaded the 285-310grn premium softs and solids I'd be comfortable hunting anything on Earth with it short of elephant and Rino!

I would hunt elephant and Rhino with 358 Norma or any magnum velocity rifle with proper bullets..I consider them the full equal of a 375 H&H or Ruger..

The .338 Win. Mag. killed any chance the .358 Norma Mag. might have had.

Same with the .300 Win. Mag. vs. the .308 Norma Mag.

A good case can be made that the Normas are better in both cases.

But IMHO, they are just not enough better to win the ballistics (or marketing) battles.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I load my 416 Rigby with 350gr TSX bullets at 2,700fps. It's the hammer of Thor!!

Seems like Todd speaks with authority and experience with this .416 Rigby load with the Barnes TSX bullets. I followed up with several top DGR builders who have been building DGR rifles for 25 years for clients that use them extensively , along with several PH’s who are actually gun people. The consensus has been they like the .416’s more than the .375’s and the Barnes TSX is the Bullet of choice.
4WD

The 358 Norma and 358 STA would get my vote as well for being very much ‘overlooked’. Of course the problem has normally been ammo availability in the US.

But as long as ammo availability is not in question so far on this thread, I’ll add my 2 cents worth and offer up the medium bore I’m taking on my next African hunt: 9.3x66 or 370 Sako Magnum if you prefer.

I had one made on a CZ 550 by AHR in their #3 package. Wayne did an outstanding job on it. Beautiful and super accurate with all (4) loads Federal offered; SAF, NP, TSX, BBS. It’s a 286 gr. @ 2,550fps (on ave.). Like a 9.3x62, the round has a small head, and usually can hold 1 or 2 more in the magazine than some bigger cartridges. My wife’s 9.3x62 Sako AIV holds (6) in the magazine!

The drawback is, if you lose your ammo arriving in Africa, no one will have any spare to help you out. But of course, that is the same for the 358 Norma, 358 STA, 35 Whelen, 338-06, etc. Take the caliber you like to Africa, but have a backup plan as well. Usually, a PH will have a camp rifle in that case. My solution is traveling with a hunting partner who has a backup rifle I can use. Luckily, my hunting partner is a friend of mine who has bought all of his rifles from me (!), so I am familiar with them. All bases covered.

Mated with my 404 Jeffery shooting 430 NF softs & solids, I have my dream 2-rifle battery for Africa. And I like two rifles for Africa (sorry Saeed), a medium and a large bore. But that’s just me.

I do not agree with Ray enough. I promised myself this year I would agree with him more. I also happen to own a 416 Rem so of course the OP is, was, and for ever shall be correct the 416 Rem is The most overlooked all around caliber.

Wow! You guys sure have a different definition of "all-around rifle chambering" than the vast majority of North American hunters!

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:
Wow! You guys sure have a different definition of "all-around rifle chambering" than the vast majority of North American hunters!

Yep! For NA, I’d think the 30-06 would be the ‘all-around rifle chambering’. 303 in Canada?

For me, as I hunt both NA and Africa, that rifle has to be ‘good’ for both continents. I chose the 9.3x66 for both (among a whole host of others that would work just fine) and it will kill everything in NA I’m going to hunt, plus Africa of course.

When hunting DG and PG in Africa as I do, I personally want a 9.3 something or higher in my hands most of the time, even when hunting PG, because I sometimes run into DG while hunting the PG. I have on a couple of occasions, carried a 338WM, but now prefer the 35 plus bores.

Kindred spirits!

There are brother among us, from near and far flung regions, who have the same addiction!

It's wonderful!

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
WOW; I am not the only one....

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I'm in the middle of building me a 416 Rem.
Why, you ask....because I can and I didn't have one until now.

It's going to be a thing of beauty with the Turkish walnut stock once done (shootable art). I'm in the middle of inletting as we speak.

Do I need one? Oh hell no but I don't NEED 7/8 of the guns I have now!

I'm an unapologetic gun whore.

Zeke

7x57 or 275 Rigby, however you want to call it. Will shoot long for calibre high BC bullets and in a modern strong action the original 140 High Velocity at 3,000 fps is achievable, so flat enough for any big game.

Minimal recoil yet has been used to any game on the planet.

30-06 / 308 (with modern loading not a lot tp choose between) are the other contenders, but for many it will have just a bit too much recoil. But ammo is everywhere.

And legalities of min calibres not withstanding there is a lot to be said for a little 223 scaled to size bolt action like the little CZ. With a decent monolithic bullet they will pretty much take any deer type animal, but you need to grt close enough and put bullet in the correct place. For smaller stuff - no issues whatsoever.

There is no right or wrong in this thread, everyone is correct. I thought this would be the "It is what it is thread," and so it was!

Speaking of "NEED", like "no one NEEDS more than a " (favorite cartridge and gun)", is basic prejudice based on that person's psyche and experiences. As I've aged, I rarely shoot my .458 Win Mag at max, but I do enjoy hunting with and shooting that rifle with .45-70 and BP level loads. It's very effective, at the ranges I hunt, using a 400gr FT at 1800 - 2000 fps. But I've literally developed a couple dozen loads for it from 500s at 2300 fps to 250s at 2700 fps.

But today (age 87) I mostly develop, shoot and hunt with my "mediums" in .35, .36 and .37 (.35 Whelen, 9.3 x 62 and .375 H&H). But do I REALLY NEED guns? NO! Few people actually need them, unless they plan on going to war! Or their mortal existence depends on it!

So whatever your prejudice is, go with it! I could, and have, made a tenable argument that the .458 Win Mag is the most versatile cartridge available for the handloader, considering the sheer number and variety of projectiles available off the shelf, and all the various and suitable molds to make your own! And, of course, that's largely due to the continued popularity of the still great .45-70.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

458 only,
I like your style brother!

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only: . . . But do I REALLY NEED guns? NO! Few people actually need them, unless they plan on going to war! Or their mortal existence depends on it!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Amen, Bro. "Need" is a word that expresses only ½ of the equation: I don't NEED a car if I'm willing to walk. I don't NEED medical care if I'm willing to suffer a long and lingering illness.

I don't NEED to eat if I'm willing to starve to death.

I have a first year model 7 in 6mm rem. I'm just starting to shoot it. I put a 6x42 leupold on it. So far it is gaining my interest.

I can’t say enough good about the 416 Rem for a flexible all around caliber. I have used it for everything from deer to (recently) Cape buffalo over the last 20 years. We had a very nice Duiker run right at us being chased by a troop of baboons while a tracker and I were out stalk hunting wildebeest. Since it was on my list, I took it with what I had in my hands, 416/400gr Swift A-frame. It worked

My second rifle on that hunt was a single shot 7x57r using 175gr swifts. What a joy to hunt with. I walked over 70 miles on my recent hunt carrying those two rifles and neither were an burden.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I load my 416 Rigby with 350gr TSX bullets at 2,700fps. It's the hammer of Thor!!

The Rigby will do even more, 2800-2850, should you want. Hammer has some 325 grainers now, too.

However, for more standard fare ---
I still haven't picked up a 416 Ruger, (African or Guide gun), the nice compact rifles that do what the 416 Rem does in a smaller action. Some day.

In the meantime for NA I picked up a 300 PRC (Christensen Arms Ridgeline). I like it a lot. It's my first gun with a muzzle break and it's nice for it to feel like a 270. Maybe I would be favorably inclined for a 416 Ruger African now.

This is the medium bore forum!

My vote goes to the .338 Win. Mag.

I'm with Mike on the all around medium. My guess is I've kill around 100 animals with a 338 WM or it's ilk. The 338s have never failed me.

Mark

For DG im not much to high velocity, thats a different gang! Id hunt DG with any caliber mentioned other than the ridiculas but whoops Ive done that too, 7x57, .338, and 30-06 on buffalo, back in the day, just curious, and they all 3 worked..backed up but not needed by a 470..Id call it a stunt more than anything else..

Needing to be overlooked means the winner of this silly game must be some obsolete chambering or wildcat in the .338-.375 area. I suppose the 375 Weatherby could be it, mainly because at a pinch you might use ammo for the H&H.

When it comes to hunting out-of-the-way places, there's a lot to be said for boringly common calibres. Depending on the continent, the 338WM, 9.3x62 and 375H&H all fit that category. Having the greatest choice of bullets for long and short ranges, the 338 Win wins in my book but, owing to Anglocentric legislation, the 375 H&H is Cock of the Walk in Africa.

If that ammo can also work in another, more powerful rifle, that rifle's calibre has some claim to fame.

If that is the case, I would opt for the .458 Lott!
You can shoot .257WM, .264 WM, 6.5 RM, .270WM, 7mmRM,7mmWM .308 NM, .300H&H, .300WM----out it!

Must I go On and On?

You may not hit anything but what the heck---It is still fun!

Hip

The Lott will definitely use 458 Win ammo but, since this is
the medium-bore forum, I call Out of bounds!

quote:

The .338 Win. Mag. killed any chance the .358 Norma Mag. might have had.

Same with the .300 Win. Mag. vs. the .308 Norma Mag.

This is undoubtedly true. But I split the difference with the 323 Hollis and am very impressed and the Lilja barrel on this rig might be the best in a long while. I'm partial to the 8mm.

While I’m with many regarding the .416 caliber, for me it would be my .416 Weatherby with which I’ve taken rabbits, whitetails, elk, African plains game and Cape buffalo.

But I am also partial to my 8mm Remington Magnum, which for the purposes of the Subject (most overlooked all around) and of this Category (Medium bore), probably fits better.

I to am an 8mm fan and I will posit that the 8mm RM is less overlooked than the 8x68S. At least in the States.

One has to take into consideration availability and that voids many mentioned wildcats and ammo availability world wide..

Finale for me: A 30-06 with 220 Nosler's and a 220 solids..recoil has gotten worse every year since yesterday Ive noticed!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
One has to take into consideration availability and that voids many mentioned wildcats and ammo availability world wide..

well, Ray, that's a condition for yourself

I believe the 358 win / 9x57 mauser are grossly overlooked

Me too zeke! Iusually pick the gun in question, caliber is second, most all of them work..

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I can't believe that no one has yet mentioned the 6.5 Creedmoor.



This is the Medium Bore Rifles forum, after all.

But seriously, I am a big fan of the .416, both the Rigby and the Remington.

For the best overall bullet to load, I rate the 370 grain North Fork bonded soft point as among the best, and one of my favorites.

6.5 NEEDmore….

There is really no such critter, but the 338 for No. America and a 416 Rem or 404 for Africa would work as well as anything....but sorta boring..I mean I loved my doubles and my lever guns..

7mm-08 or 270 wsm

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
The Lott will definitely use 458 Win ammo but, since this the medium-bore forum, I call Out of bounds!

Maybe not, I consider anything less than .500 a medium bore

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I can't believe that no one has yet mentioned the 6.5 Creedmoor.



This is the Medium Bore Rifles forum, after all.

But seriously, I am a big fan of the .416, both the Rigby and the Remington.

For the best overall bullet to load, I rate the 370 grain North Fork bonded soft point as among the best, and one of my favorites.

6.5 NEEDmore….

Some people hate the 6.5 Creedmore but cream in their pants over the 6.5x55-----Now who is Rattle Brained here???????

Hip

P.S. Have owned both.