BigBullet--My Ackley Whelen is also on a Springfield.
Jack-275's with a metal butt plate You d'man

Ray Alaska:

Yes I wanted to compare the 338 win mag to the 35 Whelen. Unfortunatly the 338-06, just won't drive the bullets fast enough to be a factor.

My point is, that 200 feet per second, really dosen't make much difference in trajectory, and if you are going to bang away with the 338 Win Mag at longer ranges the 35 Whelen will hang with it pretty good thru most reasonable ranges. Now I don't know what your personal "range limitations" are, but for me lets call it 300-350 yards.

I, by the way think the 338 is a very good cartridge, if you like lots of recoil, noise and want to burn a lot of powder. You can achieve this MONUMENTAL INCREASE

Ray Alaska:

Yes I wanted to compare the 338 win mag to the 35 Whelen. Unfortunatly the 338-06, just won't drive the bullets fast enough to be a factor.

My point is, that 200 feet per second, really dosen't make much difference in trajectory, and if you are going to bang away with the 338 Win Mag at longer ranges the 35 Whelen will hang with it pretty good thru most reasonable ranges. Now I don't know what your personal "range limitations" are, but for me lets call it 300-350 yards.

I, by the way think the 338 is a very good cartridge, if you like lots of recoil, noise and want to burn a lot of powder. You can achieve this MONUMENTAL INCREASE IN VELOCITY (200fps) by burning another 30 to 35 grains of powder.

Good Shooting

Jerry

Jerry: There is a huge difference in 200 fps, specially when not only is the bullet 200 fps faster, but with a greater sectional density. 200 fps greater provides greater energy from the same bullet.

You are comparing a 225-grain .35-caliber bullet to a .250-grain .33-caliber bullet. The SD of that .250 grainer equals .313.

Keep in mind that somewhere around 200 fps is a step up from the .30-06 to the .300WM, and even though the .30-06 kills just as dead as a .300WM with the same bullet, it is not as powerful as the later.

My .338WM when compared to a .375H&H does very well with bullet weights up to 300 grains, but the .375H&H can provide a tremendous punch with bullets from 300 grains and up, something that my .338WM can't do. Even though .33-caliber bullets have greater SD than .375 bullets, it is not possible for it to be as powerful as the .375H&H.

Now, one can compare a .30-06, .338-06, and a .35 Whelen to each other, because their powders capacity is about the same (same case).

[ 11-15-2003, 05:32: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

That's an ugly gun JBelk. What do you want for it???

Small fry a huntsmen is a variety of spider that is common in Australia they look rather threatening but are infact pretty harmless.

I was insinuating that the spider I was reffering to was actually virginal....pure in other words

All this talk about the .35 whelen I had better get one

Quite a thread!!

Although the 35 Whelen is not dead by any stretch, it will never get much healthier than it is at present. That by the way is not to shabby but it is never going to be as popular as many other rounds are.

Several have mentioned the 338 Win Mag already and I agree with that in part but would carry it a bit further. The 338 can be found in the lineup of just about every gun manufacture there is. The 35 Whelen never enjoyed this luxury. If Winchester and Savage had chambered it along with Ruger and Remington it may have stood a chance. That didn't happen and it is doubtful it ever will. Nowdays the 35 Whelen is basically a custom of some sort. Now, all here are not foreign to this idea but the general public wants something made by Remington, Ruger, Savage, or Winchester and ammo in the box from Federal, Remington, or Winchester. I don't recall anyone but Remington making 35 Whelen ammo on a regular basis. If a person looks at all new calibers that come out, most will be doomed to a mediocre life if only one company loads for them, and they will be further hampered if only one company furnishes firearms for them.

Most of the other wildcats Remington made factory rounds have enjoyed life in other companies rifles. Sadly the Whelen never enjoyed that luxury.

If it wasn't for the fact Griffin & Howe made a lot of 35 Whelen rifles on the 1903 Springfield action and I am a great lover of that 1903 action, I really doubt I would ever own another Whelen. I don't own one at the present time although I have in the past as well as an 8mm-06 and a 338-06. To me they were just something between the 30-06 and 375 H&H which I really didn't need. I confess to having a 338 Win Mag in that slot now, but I probably don't really need that either. But, for those who have a 35 Whelen, it seems to be a very popular round. Let us hope this continues because it was a pair of Americans who started it and both left their tracks on the early shooting world we enjoy today.

My- 35 Whelen is for sale. If interested E-Mail
me..MD

Hey 7-30 Waters,

One of the big reasons that the .35 Whelen hasn't taken off is because it is strictly a handloading proposition if you want the Whelen to perform at its best.

I don't know anyone, in their right, mind who would buy a .35 Whelen and shoot only factory, 200 gr., ammo. (I don't know if Remington is loading anything other than their 200 gr. bullet.) And that ammo is loaded at a reduced velocity. (There are many old rifles out there and for Remington to make ammo that is up to speed could put them in a bad legal position.)

I have a Whelen that was made to handle heavy bullets - over 250 gr. For a few reasons my rifle will push a 280 gr. Swift at 2,547 fps. I've shot over my Beta Master Chrony many times and that is a reliable, average velocity. In doing so, I get groups that are sub MOA.

For game the size of elk and up there is not other cartridge that will kill an elk, moose or bear more quickly than a 280 gr. Swift at 2,547 fps. But that is after careful hand loading and a rifle that is designed to shoot heavy bullets.

What average hunter would want to go through that? Although, the Whelen is a great cartridge with great abilities, you can get those results with a .375 H&H and buy the ammo over the counter. You can also get 286 gr. bullets in factory loaded 9.3x64 cartridges. I haven't mentioned the .338 because I don't consider that .338 in the same league as the .35 Whelen, 9.3x62 or the .375 H&H. (Yeah, the .338 shoots bullets fast but I've read about some really bad custom bullet failures with this cartridge and whatever benefit the velocity brings to the party it is lost with bullet failure.)

That is my opinion on the reason the Whelen isn't more popular.

Great question 7-30 Waters!

Good shooting,

Smoker

.35 Whelen Guys,

The .35 Whelen ain't dead. It 's not even sick!I've been playing with one for 4 years now and I have come to really respect the round. The load I've been using in my .35 Whelen Rem. 700 Classic (22" Barrel) is 58.5 grs RL 15 in Rem. brass with WLR primers and the 250 grain Nosler Partition. 2 elk and 2 moose have fallen to this combo. It gives 2,525 fps on my Chrony. I just switched to an old set of Kimber Double Lever Mounts because the places I've used this rifle are always wet! Plan on putting a Lyman 57 on as a backup. One of those moose was a lazered 280 yards. Does that sound like a "medium" range rifle? I just got back from the range. I sighted in the rifle and shot a 3/8" 3 shot group at 100 yds. You can cover it with a nickle!

Rich Elliott

[ 11-15-2003, 21:43: Message edited by: Rich Elliott ]

MADDOG, why are you selling ur 35whln! shame on you

When I bought my first deer rifle, I had the choice of the 760 Game master in 30/06, 270, I think the 6mm Rem Mag was also offered, and the 35 Whelen. My chioce for the all around 1st gun chambering was the 30/06.

I now own a 35 Whelen in a Rem Classic, and I simply cannot wait till I can shoot a deer or a bear with it. I love it. I really don't care that it is "overpowered" for Bambi, I want to see for myself.I still have the 30/06, but I have already shot numerous deer with it.

I might suggest that the 35 Whelen was left behind by it's parent cartridge, the 30/06!! Why, the 35 Whelen was abandoned at birth!!! While I do believe that the .338 WM did seal it's fate as a "Magnum" substitute, I think the popularity and versatility of the 30/06 still diverts more hunters from the .35 Whelen as their 1st choice.

The .35 Whelen has been around for eighty years and I expect it will still be with us long after some of the modern cartridges names have been forgotten.

My 35 Whelen is alive and doing quite well. It's targets are mostly dead or had the livin' shit scared out of 'em.

Smallfry; My Whelen sits all the time. Never been past the range. I am in Alaska 3 to 5 months out of the year and all I use is a .338 & a .375 H&H. The other time is spent in Nevada and the LONG range gear comes out then, .240 & 257 Weatherbys. I love the gun Because it shoots great, and spent good money building it up. But It just doesen't fit my hunting style. But I just had to have it.. Thanks MD

I haven't mentioned the .338 because I don't consider that .338 in the same league as the .35 Whelen, 9.3x62 or the .375 H&H. (Yeah, the .338 shoots bullets fast but I've read about some really bad custom bullet failures with this cartridge and whatever benefit the velocity brings to the party it is lost with bullet failure.)

From my experience I can't make a blanket statement such as this by any means. Speed in any round is controlled by how much powder is crammed in the case, not because it is a particular caliber. I also have not observed many "Custom Bullet" failures in any caliber, especially the 338. It has been said that the 340 Weatherby is one of the greatest rounds for hunting very large and dangerous North American big game there is and it is faster yet using the same bullets as the 338 Win Mag. If it doesn't suffer from bullet failure than I hesitate to believe the 338 Win Mag does either. Now I am not the greatest lover of the 338 Win Mag, but I certainly can't say I have observed any more bullet failures with it using even normal bullets than with other rounds either. In fact, it has actually been quite the opposite.

Before the reappearing of the Nosler Partition, and the appearing of the Swift A-Frame, the Trophy Bonded, and other premium bullets became available in 375 I would say I saw more bullet failures with the 375 on elk than I ever saw with the 338. At one time there was basically the 235 gr Speer, 250 gr Hornady, and the 300 gr Sierra bullets available for the 375. The only other bullets I saw much were a few 285 gr Speer Grand Slams and a very few bonded core bullets from Bill Stiegers of Lewiston, Idaho. I have seen some very disasterous results on elk with the 300 grain Sierra bullet. Ditto for the 235 gr Speer. The 270 gr Hornady seemed the best of the three to me. The Whelen was in the same boat when it first appeared. It is no wonder many folks still use the 250 gr Speer Hot Core bullet. When I had my 35 Whelen, before it became a factory round, that was pretty much the best bullet available. I actually switched to the 338-06 because of the premium bullets available. The 9.3 suffered from a lack of good premium bullets in the U.S. during those years also. From my recollection the 338 was the benefactor of good premium bullets sooner than the 358, 366, and 375 caliber rounds and they proved superior to standard bullets. This is no doubt one of the reasons why the 338 Win Mag became so popular so quick. It must work, and work well, if so many people still use it.

Nowdays we are blessed with wonderful bullets in most every caliber imaginable. I agree with what was said by Mr Atkinson in another thread. I think his statement says it all.

The truth is from the 06 to the 375 it is near impossible to tell any difference with simular shot placement......

This is the main reason I no longer have a 338-06 or 35 Whelen. The fact I have a 338 Win Mag is more due to the particular rifle rather than the caliber. I admit to not really using it that much. I further feel that the 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3X62, or 9.3X64 will never pose any great threat to the popularity of the 338 Win Mag or the 375 H&H, especially in North America. The latter two just enjoy to many advantages over the other four. That certainly doesn't mean the other four are suspect, perhaps quite the opposite. It is just a simple matter of popularity and availability of rifles making those two rounds "King of the hill".

I don't really care how popular the Whelen is; I know it works well.

By the way, I have rifles in .35/.284, .35 Whelen Improved, and very soon an MRC short action .35/.300 WSM.

I like the .35 caliber. Others are free to choose whatever they like. My brother shoots a .338 Win Mag and it does just fine also. We don't argue which is better. But neither of us worries excessively when hunting the thick stuff where its possible to encounter big brown hairy pawed beasts that growl.
Jerry/AK

When it was first cooked up, Americans used it instead of the .375 H&H, which was not yet being made by U.S. ompanies. However, for some reason, .35 cal rifles have never been particularly popular here, except for Remington's little woods cartridge. The .35 Whelen is a great cartridge, as is the .338/'06 and all improved versions of both of these!!

SURE AM GLAD I NEVER TAUGHT MY 35 WHELENS TO READ BECAUSE 1 SPENT A LONG WEEK END IN MY LAP,, JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS DEAD.. I AM A DEER HUNTER AND HAVE KILLED WELL OVER 100 DEER WITH A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CALABERS (250 SAVAGE TO 35 WHELEN) AND I THINK THE 35 WHELEN DROPS A DEER FASTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE I HAVE USED..

Yeah, I hate this round so much that I had Remington's shop put their last whelan barrel on my semi -06 carbine, and my vz rebarreled and chambered for it. IMHO, getting closer to the game is more important than being forced??? into sitting back and using all my gee-whiz tech info. If it's over 100 yds, I probably won't shoot.
R/Tom

Griffin and Howe cooked it up back in the post WW-I as an cost effective medium bore. Back then .375 H+H were pretty expensive. That all changed with Winchester in 1937 introduction of the Model 70. One of the cartridges chambered for that new rifle was the 375. So Americans got a reasonable priced 375 and a commercally loaded cartridge. The .35 Whelen when by the wayside. Till the 1980's when Remington adopted it and made both rife's and ammo. As a hunting cartridge, its fine, but it never was as popular with the general public as it was with the few hunter handloaders and general rifle loon's. Like 8mm's .35 cal rifles just don't do it for Americans in general. So the 35 Whelen goes back to being a semi wildcat, so what. Hunters that want one can have a smith rebarrel an .30-06 and be done with it.

There were several reasons why Whelen developed the .35 Whelen. To better understand the history may I suggest you read his introduction of the cartridge in the American Rifleman Sept 15, 1923. I have this scanned and would send a copy to those interested.

mjpetrov@acsalaska.net

[ 11-17-2003, 22:45: Message edited by: MP ]

For a dead cartridge the 35 Whelen certainly does a great job!

Good Hunting,

Some reasons that the Whelen will never die = Bullet availability, try to find a bullet mold in 9.3, or .338. Try to find a variety of bullet weights, the 35 wins hands down. See how many barrels Midway sells for 35 W vs 338-06. Finally try to find a used one in thick brush country. I had to build one after hearing gun shops say they think they saw one in the last 2 years. Gianni.

I took my Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelen to the range this past weekend. As usual, no adjustments were needed. It has been this way since I owned it. It does not know that it is supposed to be "dead" It is going bear hunting with me next week. Those 250 grain round nose bullets absolutely floored the last 2 bears I hit with it. Gotta love the Whelen!

[ 11-18-2003, 00:11: Message edited by: Iron Buck ]

[ 11-18-2003, 04:05: Message edited by: tom ga hunter ]

You guys are making me want to get a "poor mans magnum" .

.35 caliber cartridges have been plagued throughout history. Velocity fans will find the 8mm and .338 cartidges faster with the same bullet weight. Weight fans will find the 9.3 and .375 cartridges heavier with the same velocity.

The list of doomed cartridges has some pretty prestigious names attached to it.

9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer
9x57 Mauser
.35 Whelen
.358 Winchester
.358 Norma Magnum
.358 STW

Every one these will get the job done, but they are middle of the road (fish nor fowl theory) and mediocrity is not a good marketing tool. The only cartridge to make it commercially was the .35 Remington, but that was mainly due to the inexpensive rifles that were chambered in it.

I don't think a cartridge can be pronounced dead if it never was really given a chance to live.

Even here across the pond in the 9,3x62 land we see a 35 Whelen now and then . Mine is an Ruger MK II wich have got a Shilen barrel and is defenately alive and kicking !!

Hey Idared,

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I am an opinionated SOB but mine are only opinions - nothing more.

I am not able to travel all over the country and use the various cartridges available. Therefore, many of my opinions are the result of what I've read - and I've read a lot of articles that were written by highly respected hunters.

Since I have put more than a couple thousand $s into my Whelen, I guess I have a need to defend my choice of calibers.

However, the ballistics I have gathered is not ego talk. This rifle really thumps and does it without much recoil. The .338 may be able to do the same and more, but the fact is, I have a Whelen and wouldn't trade it for the world.

Sorry again Idared, I really didn't want to insult anyone's rifle.

Good shooting,

Smoker

Smoker

You have to get a lot more opinionated than that to insult me. My hide is thick and has been chewed on a lot over the years so it is tough!!

I have no problem whatsoever with folks liking their personal rifles whatever caliber they are. After all, I wouldn't want to own something I didn't care for either. And I also don't mind people championing their 35 Whelen for whatever reason. I like to see people who are not sheep and buy what everyone else does. But by the same token I am also a bit opinionated and when I see something I don't agree with I have the bad habit of speaking up.

Perhaps a better phrase would have been "Why isn't the 35 Whelen more popular" because we all know it isn't dead and likely never will be. I am glad that there is enough interest to keep it alive and kicking even if it will never become the most popular medium bore cartridge in the United States. It obviously serves many people well and deserves to live for that reason alone. It is too bad that more people didn't embrace it when it first appeared as a factory round because more rifles and ammo might have become available if that had been the case.

Your rifle sounds like a good one and I am very happy for you. Few things in the shooting and hunting world are as satisfying as having a rifle that you made or had made for you that performs like you hoped it would. I also own a couple I feel that way about. The caliber is a lot less important to me than the rifle itself. If you have confidence in what you are armed with you have the largest ingredient for success as I see it. I also believe a person doesn't have to travel a lot to appreciate a fine rifle, so I hope you continue to enjoy yours wherever the hunting or shooting takes you.

BTW, Elmer Keith convinced me that the 338 Win Mag was also a good thumper!! I have seen it used for everything from antelope to moose out in the west and it works very well indeed. No doubt you Whelen would do the same, its just that more folks who don't follow these forums wouldn't know what it was.

That certainly shouldn't put a negative reflection on it and doesn't with me. There's an old saying "Don't make fun of a man's rifle or his dog. Both may turn on you if you do!!"

After reading all that has been posted here, I am very suprised at the number of folks who enjoy their 35 Whelens!!! I thought I was unique, but now I am just one of many . Maybe the 35 Whelen is one of those "best kept secrets"!!

MP. IO tried E-mailing you for a copy of the article on the .35 Whelen, but it got kicked back.
Woul;d you please send a copy to:
phrogge1@aol.com
Thanks.
Paul B.

It would seem to me that for lack of a better description, anything in 35 calibre is a "black sheep". Tell that to my buddy who owns a 358 STA....kills moose DEAD. The 35 Whelen may not be flashy, but then again it doesn't use 108 grains of powder in a case the size of a Coke bottle....but IT WORKS nonetheless.

MP,
I'd like a copy of that article. From your email address it appears you may be nearby. Let's meet.
Jerry/AK
jwatkins@customcpu.com

Email Hornady and Federal and ask them to load light mag and high energy rounds for the 35 Whelen. It falls right in the heart of the case to bore and velocity range that work best with this technology. This will easily put it over 4000 FPE and match the 338 velocities and trajectories.

35W dead? Well then, my safe must be a mass grave! Who comes up with this stuff?

WN

7-30,

I don't think the Whelen is dead, just under appreciated. Those that have used it on game know that it kills way out of proportion to its size or paper ballistics. A lot of the "classic" cartidges are like that, I find the same thing with my .257 Roberts. Not flashy, but effective. I have taken animals from deer up to moose and eland with the .35 Whelen and none have required a second shot. Several of these were taken at 225-250 yards and the moose at a lazered 410 yards. Now, shots in the 400 yard range are not my preference with any cartridge, but in the last couple of hours on the last day of the hunt, you have to take what you can get. There was complete penetration with a 225 grain TBBC at that range. I have settled on the 225 grain weight as a good "all-around" weight for the Whelen. Sort of like the 165 grain slug in the '06. I don't handload, so of the available factory loads, the Federal load is the best. Every couple of months I email Hornady and Federal to ask for a Light Magnum or High Energy load with a 250 grain bullet, but so far, no luck.