The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The Saga of the Ruger guide gun continuesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The Saga of the Ruger guide gun continues | Login/Join |
| one of us |
. | ||
|
| One of Us |
Alf Have you checked the torque on all of the bedding screws yet? The front angled screw should be torqued to 95 in/lbs, then the 2 trigger guard screws should be tightened "tight", then the front trigger guard screw should be backed off approx. 1/8 of a turn. Guns and hunting | |||
|
One of Us |
What is that a 1.5 inch group? Did you do an OCW load development work-up? I would also use a high power scope when doing load development work. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you dont shoot squirrels with it whats several minutes of moose. | |||
|
one of us |
ALF try those loads with the brake OFF. Muzzle brakes do not inhance accuracy.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
|
| one of us |
So what is wrong with that group. It is plenty to take big game out to 500 yards. Don't like ship it me I well gladly put in the safe and use it to kill big game. I would bet that if you but a higher powered scope on it you would shrink that group. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That looks like a solid, real world 5 shot group to me. What would you shoot with a 338 WM that, that group would not kill. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hard to shoot MOA or better with a 1.5-5 scope....at least for me. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't see anything wrong with that group at all. I only use Leupold scopes and have never had a turret cap come off or get loose. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I had to replace my Leupold 1.5-5x with a 4-12x on my 338/06 to get decent groups. When I was 40 years younger it would not have been a problem. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would be satisfied with those groups considering it is a factory 338 WM, and it is normally necessary to re-build your shooting position after every shot. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The OCW method works fine @ 100 meters. One could say it is designed to work at 100 yards/meters where the Audette ladder is better suited for 200 yards/meters. In a 338 Win Mag you would want to use at least .6 grain increments. Not sure what is difficult about comparing POI and group size for say 8 different loads relative to the aiming point. Load 1 is 1.75 inches, 2 inches low and 1 inch right Load 2 is 1.5 inches, 1.75 inches low and 3/4 right and so on You should find 2 to 3 loads with similar POI and similar group size. Pick the mid point between those loads. Also, 60 grains is relatively light load for the 250 TSX. Barnes Manual #4 states 59-64.5. In many rifles the more accurate loads are in the upper end of the range. You may find better accuracy in the 63-64 grain range. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| one of us |
My 338wm shoots the best with the a max load of IMR4831 | |||
|
| one of us |
If you are interested in trying a proven load for accuracy using Barnes 225 grain bullets, here's one that has shot submoa for me in five 338 Win Mags. If it doesn't shoot well in your rifle, there is definitely a problem. This is a max load from the Barnes Manual Number 4. 67.5 grains IMR 4350, Winchester case, CCI 250 or Fed 215 Gold Medal Match primer. Seat the 225 TTSX 50 thousandths from the lands of your rifle. A few years back when Winchester brass dried up, I switched to Norma brass and had to increase the powder charge 1 full grain to get the same velocity. If you are concerned about dropping down to a 225 grain bullet as opposed to the 250 grain in 338 Win Mag, years ago, when I started loading Barnes bullets, I called their lab and talked to a gentleman about the difference between the 250 and the 225 X bullet. He told me the 250 grain would give me about two inches more penetration and 100 ft lbs of energy. I told him I wanted one bullet for all Alaskan hunting and he recommended the 225 grain bullet. I've killed all the typical big game in Alaska (except sheep) with Barnes 225 grain Xbullets and TTSXs. I've stuck em in 6 brown bears, one by myself and 5 backing up friends and they have performed well for me. From my seat on the bus, it is a one load solution to all the Alaskan hunting problems. | |||
|
| One of Us |
that's about twice as good as the last Remington I bought. and your groups are nice and round. | |||
|
| One of Us |
ya - sure - indeed-- bite tongue---no i won't - it's to easy | |||
|
One of Us |
Yes. There are many philosophies of hand loading. It is instructive that the 338WM was originally issued with factory loads 250grain at 2700fps. They can still do that. However, Barnes "5th" online 2017 lists 67.7grain Hunter, compressed, for 2637fps. That seems anemic to me and suggests that a slightly faster powder would be better, maybe Reloder 17, although the same manual lists only 61.9gn R-17 for 2608. I would expect something around 65 grains to produce 2700fps and probably excellent accuracy. Much depends on the chamber, too. If there is significant growth with this light load, above say .513" in front of the belt, then the chamber is large and may need a grain or two over book entries. Barnes 4th lists IMR 4350 at 65.5 grains for 2615fps with the 250TSX. Yet they only list 64.5grains of the slower IMR4831, meaning there was some anomaly in the set-up or results. Barnes 3rd lists 68 grains of IMR4831 for 2593fps with the earlier bullets without grooves, meaning more bearing surface and higher pressures. the same manual lists 71grains Rel-19 (often close to IMR4831) for 2687 with those 250 grain bullets. That seems to be more of what I expect from the 338WM. The bottom line, of course, is which load and level is the most accurate in your rifle. Enjoy. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That group, depending on what the dispersion per shot is...is the beginning of a bugholer IF you just benchrest process the brass and bullets. What I mean by dispersion...and I KNOW most of you will get all wired up over the very thought of benchrest processing ANY big game hunting rifle/bullet...is HOW/WHERE the bullets hits per round... If the first round hit high, the next hit and the third hit the right outside and the rest just filled in the nice slightly round group then I see a rifle with potential...Weight sort and Ogive sort the bullet...weigh sort the brass...turn the necks about 80% and I'll bet you can half that group. Benchresters that understand variation and that measure EVERYTHING also know just how variable a box of bullets or a lot of brass can be...and if you want small groups you have to WORK for it. WHAT the heck are you shooting 5 round groups for...with a rifle/cartridge this large 3 shot groups will suffice for powder/bullet combo testing. Three shots in one hole goes a LONG way in knowing you can placing that first shot in the right place and the next two right on top...discounting all the waving around that comes with field shooting. A slight amount of bedding and barrel channel checking might provide dividends....pillar/epoxy bedding might help bedding, but if you use a MB then test WITH the brake because by taking it off you change the vibration of the barrel whitch also affects the group when you put it back on...sometimes but not always. TOO MANY think that "ladder" testing is the end all and be all, but it isn't worth spit if you dont treat the rifle like a system and address ALL the components in individually and as parts of a group. You want ladder testing illustrations go to AR's shooting section...it is FULL of illustrations on just about every rifle/caliber available...then think about it and dissect all the data. Your rifle, your decision....my 338-06 puts 5 into one hole slightly smaller than a quarter...ALL TOUCHING...BUT ONLY WITH the 225 Hornady SP...every other bullet I've tried produces groups like yours...PLENTY good for hunting anything from sage rats to T-Rex out to 300 yds...yours might like another brand of bullet also. Good Hunting   | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a Guide Gun in .416 Ruger and only have about 100 rds. through it due to lousy winter weather BUTT the groups are ever improving as I load the rounds hotter and hotter (still not max though) ! I have only shot it at 50 yds so far and when I do my part the groups are one hole. Hip | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't know in what order those shots were fired and that makes a difference..you have two small groups there separated by about a half inch...I suspect some bedding would pull them together, with another load or maybe just glass bedding..Im pretty sure I could make that rascal shoot tiny groups. But for hunting its good enough for the average Joe I suspect, so my advise is suck it up buttercup and make it shoot nickel size groups. whining won't fix it.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would not even glass bed at this point. I would put a scope on that is 8 power at a minimum (10 or 12 is even better) and then I would load three rounds at: 60.6, 61.2, 61.8, 62.4, 63.0, 63.6, and 64.2 and see what I kinda groups I get. Firing each at a different aiming point and firing 1 round of each load first, low to high and the reverse the order letting the barrel cool between each shot. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Alf all my rifles shoot one hole groups in a blizzard. I consider it foolish to stay out in that kind of weather to take more than one shot. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ruger's guide guns are unimpressive. All The Best ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thats a very mild load! I'd call it a low-pressure load. That could be most of the problem, if there is one. IMR4831 is an excellent powder for the .338. In one of my son's rifles we used 73 grs behind the 250gr Hornady for a moose hunt. My 9.3 x 62 will shoot three 250gr AccuBonds at over 2700 into 0.44" using RL-17. Killed a fine bl. bear with that load at 85 yards. Haven't owned a .338 WM since owning the 9.3. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
| one of us |
My impression of all Rugers. | |||
|
One of Us |
I would be pleased with a group of 5 shots such as yours. I can not shoot a group that good without a bench rest, so your rifle is shooting better than I can hold. | |||
|
One of Us |
I feel for ya on the scope problem. I went to tactical scopes and that solved my problems . Leupolds aren't a scope I would pay a penny for. I don't find it hard to shoot .5- .75 moa groups with a scope set on 4 power. How many rounds do you have down the bore? . I've had rifles that didn't ( shoot in ).until I had over 200 rounds down the barrel . And some really got shooting great after 300. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The Saga of the Ruger guide gun continues
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
