Ok, heres my problem. I was out at the range trying to work up the "best" load for my 338WM. I was shooting 72 - 76 grains of I4350 pushing 200gr NBTs. 76 started showing some pressure signs just FYI. The gun I was shooting is light and after about 10 rounds it becomes increasingly less fun to shoot.

Anyway, I shot about 30 rounds in a couple hours and my shoulder is this pretty blue color now, which I dont mind, but my pinky finger and half of my ring finger on my right hand are numb now, have been for about 4 days or so. My wife, whos is a nurse, informed me that the the same nerve is responsible for both of those fingers.

Has this happened to anyone else? Did it eventually go away?

I'm no doctor but I have had nerve damage before, due to a head to face collision (baseball). The doc told me the feeling may or may not come back. It did after about 4 weeks. Hang in there w/ it, you'll be fine.
BTW, what kind of rifle are you shooting that's beating you up so bad? I have been putting 20-25 rounds per session out of my .404 jeffery w/o serious problem. I do use a Past pad for the bench work though, you might try that for extended time w/ your boomer.

Not surprising with a load thats 12000 to 15000 pounds over max pressure.

I backed off the 76 grain loads cuz the primers were starting to crater and I got a few shiny spots on the brass. I was trying to see how far I could go before I got some pressure signs. I shot about 10 rounds with 74 grains and didnt see any pressure signs out of that load and they were shooting fairly good groups, thats just 1 grain over max in the manual Im using which is fairly new = lawyer safe loads.

You have an Ulnar nerve radiculopathy. You need to see your doctor. He/she will likely start you on a tapering dose of corticosteroids (Medrol Dosepack). You likely have some swelling inside your shoulder putting pressure on the nerve roots that form the ulnar nerve further down in your arm. The nerve bundles in your shoulder are called the Brachial Plexus. The damage could also have occurred in your elbow where the ulnar nerve goes through a structure called the Cubital Tunnel.
If the Medrol and rest don't see things right in the next couple of weeks, you need to see a neurologist or neurosurgeon. Pain, numbness, and tingling are your body's way of telling you that a insult has occurred to your neural structures. If the symptoms continue too long the damage can be partially or totally permanent.
Good luck,
JCN

You have a neuropraxia of the ulnar division of the brachial plexus. This amounts to a contusion of the nerve sheath. This condition is generally self limited and rarely has any long term sequelae. I would pay close attention to how I am mounting my rifle to the shoulder while shooting at a bench. The .338 WM is a fairly stout kicker but you should not be having these types of problems if the gun is mounted correctly. Another caviot is that if you are going to be firing long strings from guns of this caliber or larger, do as I do and wear a shoulder pad. Nothing non macho about it, just makes good sense.

Geronimo

Hey Furor,
Now that everyone has finished marking their territory and taken a chill pill, here is a little more detail:
1. Nerves are like a girlfriend I once had for too long: quick to take offense, even when none was meant, and they never forget.
2. How people approach this problem is due in part to what tools they have at their disposal for treating the problem. My surgeon friends have the option of the scalpel if all else fails. I tend to initially look at neuro-muscular problems in terms of rest, pain relief, and early physical rehab. If we aren't making progress then it is time to order up some more in depth studies, and refer on, if appropriate. My chiropractic buddy Ed dotes on ice, manipulation, and time. If someone isn't coming along as well as he would like he sends them to me. Sometimes I can help a lot, other times I facilitate getting the patient seen sooner by the appropriate specialist. And yes, I have Ed crack my back every few weeks.
3. Up to a point, rest and waiting usually isn't a bad idea. How long to wait is the tricky part. Ice is always good for acute inflamation.
OK enough of the background stuff.
Pain in the pinky and ring finger is usually caused by pressure on a nerve or nerves in one of three places: the neck, the shoulder, or the elbow. A careful examination and history will usually reveal the exact site of the injury/insult/pinch/swelling.
On the surface it would seem logical that the problem is in the shoulder, but that isn't always the case. A slow motion film of your neck motion while firing a heavy recoiling rifle would look like a bullwhip going through its paces. That can cause a disc in your lower neck to squish out a bit and put pressure on the nerve root. That is what is called a radiculopathy.
Doc already went into detail about what goes on in the brachial plexus in your shoulder. Brachial plexus is just medicine talk for the nerve bundles in your shoulder that intertwine and then form the individual nerves that go down your arm to your hand.
Your ulnar nerve goes through a place in your elbow called the cubital tunnel. The concept is similar to the "carpal tunnel" in your wrist. Basically it is a tight place that the ulnar nerve goes through. If the ulnar nerve swells up because it spent Saturday getting beat to shit by, say, a rifle butt, it can swell up. After swelling up it may no longer be a good fit in the cubital tunnel. Kinda like Rosie O'Donnel trying to wear Paris Hilton's thong underwear.
Anyway, these possibilities are all treatable by time, therapy, medicine, or surgery, as appropriate. Go see a physician that you trust or who at least knows his/her job.
Shooting hard recoiling rifles is like drinking single malt scotch whiskey. It can be very enjoyable, but is best done in moderation.
JCN

Well, now I have a MEDICAL-Legal question...

Are both Geronomo and JohnCharlieNoak physicians of some sort?

Those are big words for a lay person. Just curious. It would seem that both of you have made a diagnosis and prognosis without examining a patient. Sure, 80-90% of the musculoskeletal and neuromuscular complaints can be differentially diagnosed without an exam but which of you is right? And why on earth would you suggest the immediate need of a corticosteroid right off the bat? Aren't there more conservative measures that could be taken before the admistering of a DOSE pak???

Why on earth would you send someone to a neurosurgeon for an acute semi-traumatic localized shoulder injury with a dx of ulnar nerve radiculopathy, which by the way, there is no such thing. Radiculopathy is a nerve root lesion, stemming from the cervical or lumbar nerve root.

NEUROPRAXIA???!! An injury common at birth??? An injury that occurs with local demyelination? A diagnosis where symptoms occur both distal to and PROXIMAL to the lesion. A diagnosis where THE MOST COMMON problem is motor not sensory...WOW! I'm impressed. Sorry, I disagree. IT doesn't fit.

I agree the poor guy has a semi-traumatic localized shoulder injury resulting in local inflammation which affected his ulnar nerve but STEROIDS right off the bat! CONSULT WITH NEUROLOGIST/NEUROSURGEON?!!

I hope you guys haven't scared the begeezus out of your patient.

Furor, here's something to try. Get a big ice pack (50/50 Ice Water mix), get a cold wet wash cloth, ring out all the water and lay it on your shoulder/trap muscle, put the ice pack on there for 20/45. 20 minutes on, 45 off, 5 times per day. Do some simple range of motion exercises with your neck, flexion/extension, lateral bend, and rotation, slowly and stay in a painfree range (if you have any pain at all). Stretch your brachial plexus (the nerve bundle between your neck and your shoulder) by turning your face to the left and reaching your entire right upper extremity up and as far back as you can SLOWLY, like you are reaching into the backseat of a car.

Do this for a week and see what happens. IF you are still symptomatic, maybe then you can consult your PCP. By the way, feel free to take OTC meds, like ADVIL.

Whatever you do, DO NOT PUT HEAT ON IT. I mean, no hot packs. You'll make it worse.

Good Luck and keep us doctors posted.

DOC.

wow, got some in depth responses, I appreciate it. My finger isnt numb like I cant feel it at all, but its definately lost some sensation, kind of like its asleep. I should have backed off the shooting when it really started to hurt, but I wanted to try out all the loads that I made instead of having to drive out to the range again, bad idea I guess. I really like that gun but I think its a little too light, maybe I should add some lead to the stock. Right now its under 8lbs scoped I think, 10-11 would probably be more comfortable. Towards the end I was kind of holding the gun a little funny to try to keep it from slamming my already aching shoulder. Thats probably why I got a nerve. There is no pain unless I touch or push on my shoulder but its nice and bruised looking. I already have a bad shoulder. I have never injured it per se but the tendons are too loose in it, always have been. Im flexible my nature but that particular shoulder will actually dislocate if I just hang my arm down and relax it sometimes. When its like that you can actually push your finger in between the bone and the socket. Normally my muscles are strong enough to keep it from bothering me too much, but when Im shooting that dern 338, after a while it will actually start to dislocate on each shot. I guess that is a good sign its time to put the gun away for the day. Like I said, I really appreciate the advice guys, I kind of figured it will go away once the bruising/swelling go down, even if it doesnt I guess its something that I can live with, only have 30 more years to go anyway, give or take a few.

Wow, I thought we were in a fucking shooting room. Next we'll hear some advice on who to sue because his finger hurts. geeeeeez.

Actually Doc both of us are physicians. What do you do?

Geronimo

Whoa, Doc,
Easy there. I was driving into work when I slapped my forehead and said duh, Radiculopathy, double duh. I mis-typed; it happens.
I recommended that he see his physician, and that if it didn't clear up in a couple weeks that he seek the attention of a specialist. Appropriate & conservative, eh?
Are you one of those nomenclature Nazi's? I knew one many years ago. No one, I mean no one wanted him to show up at their picnic.
Unless you have never mis-spoken, mis-typed, or mis-dictated in your entire life you should not be so harsh. It is not nice, it is not professional, it is ugly, it is beneath you.
JCN

No wonder you have a problem. Geez, up to 3 grs. over the max load in the Nosler book and 30 rounds from the bench to boot. Gotta admit, I have a problem giving sympathy on this one. Far as I'm concerned, yer lucky. FYI, the max load for a 200 gr. BT using IMR-4350 is 73.0 grs. I too would recommend a Past recoil pad & for God's sakes drop the powder charge. Bear in Fairbanks

Furor,

I can't make any comment about the load, or the medical stuff, but next time you hit he range, put a pad between the gun and your shoulder - I have a 270, which kicks the living daylights out of me off the bench (sore shoulder, 'whiplash' headaches, tingling fingers, etc,,,), but which doesn't bother me at all in 'field' situations, or, strangely enough, in rapid fire 'service' shooting matches.

If your gun hurts, you run the risk of developing a flinch, and as an ex-instructor, that can be VERY hard to eliminate!

It seems as though I've sparked a few responses. GOOD.

In terms of me ever having mis-spoken, of course, I'm human. However, when it comes to diagnosing a presenting condition, the term 'radiculopathy' can scare someone. If on the drive home you realized a mistake by 'mis-typing', then my next question would be, what did you mean to type?

I'm certainly not a nomenclature 'NAZI', Take a look at some of my other posts, I'm confident I've mispelled several words because I type fast and do not preview the post. And even though the guy asked a legitimate question, I disagree with throwing out conditions/diagnoses that may or may not be accurate without having a prior history.

To wallyw: if my response somehow made you think of some pre-med corpsman treating a 'dumb' marine, sorry. That is your problem. Some of my dearest friends are in the military, and a couple are marines, including some fellows from college. If you have had a bad taste in your mouth from some mistreatment by a physician, guess what, it happens, and it is unfortunate. Not all doctors are bad.

In today's world of MED-Legal issues, it is better to be thorough. I have patients in my practice by the hundreds that have had 'big' words thrown their way and it didn't set well with them. Let alone they were misdiagnosed, OR properly dx but it was not explained to the patient fully.

Now that I opened this can of worms, let me explain why I appeared 'ugly', 'not nice', unprofessional, and 'beneath me'.

Just yesterday, a dear friend and patient became a father for the first time. He and his wife had been trying for years. To make a very long story short, she was pregnant with twins, one boy, one girl. They knew for the last couple of months that something wasn't right with the girl. The OB docs decided to deliver at 33 weeks. They lost the girl. The emotional distress that the couple went through was disheartening becuase for so long, they wanted answers and no one could provide a satisfactory response, during the pregnancy and after delivery. That is a patients point of view.

NOW, this has absolutely nothing to do with Furors shoulder, but if you all had walked in my shoes for the last week, and you had a heart as big as mine, you may have had a response similar to my post. Forgive me for typing a cautionary response.


To JohnCharlieNoak: just some advice, and I mean this on a sincere basis, if you are a licensed treating physician, I hope you do not chart one thing but mean another. Defense attorneys love that.

Aww dangit...now you got me doing it too...I meant Plaintiff attorney

My sincere apology to the docs that replied.

I've had some sleep now and went back and read my first response...you'd think I was angry or something huh?

It's been a crappy week.

Good Shooting and Good Hunting.

Seems like docs have got you covered on what you probably did.

What is important is how not to do the same thing next time. I've been using a Past mag recoil pad for the last 7 or so years, and it has totatlly eliminated bruising. Even with the 458 Lott or 500 Jeffrey, no bruises, just a we bit of tenderness

Several years ago I had an accident while working on my garage door, in any event I was struck on the top of my head. After that I started to get "tingling in a couple of my left hand finger, this would happen when I would turn my head a certain way. I never made the connection until a friend told me to get my Dr to check it out. A long story short I herniated two of my discs in my lower neck the place where the nerves that go to the tingling fingers come out of my spine. I went thru a battery of tests to determine what was causing this since the corrective action would be neck surgery (fusion of the vertebrae) While going through these tests I had an incident wherein I lost partial use of my right arm, specificall my tricep. I went through therapy for that and while these test took several months I noticed the tingling sensation had dissappeared. I advised my neurosurgeon about this and he stated good, the disc healed itself, he explained to me that the disc impacted the nerve causing it to cause the tingling and also severe damage to ther nerve which resulted in the lost of tricep control. They tell me the nerve grows about as fast as your fingernails. The discs apparently retracted during the repair process causing no more nerve contact. I asked if this was so then why do people have the spinal surgery, for which he replied to reduce pain or to stop any further damage to the nerve. In my case the tingling was a warning that a problem was occurring, the loss of tricep was the damage which was the for lack of a better word "killing" of the nerve. This nerve will either regrow 100% or some lesser % or not at all, in my case it was 100%

My recomendation, stop what your doing so you do not further damage that nerve, get it diagnosed and do whatever they recomend before irrepairable damage ocurrs, in my case from onset to when it was all over was about 20 months, but the wait was worth it.