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Hello guys and gals. It's that time to get my daughter a rifle. She is 12 guaranteed a tag this year for elk and deer. Should I get her a long action or short action. She shoots her 22. I do reload so I was thinking of a gun to take a bull elk. Which cartridge? I was thinking of a 7mm08 or a 270. Just let me know what you think. | ||
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A Cushy recoil pad like a Hi-Vis is a must and lots of target practice no matter which caliber you choose. Use slower burn powders like H4831. Kick is less than faster powders. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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I would definitely consider the 7mm-08, with appropriate stock length of pull. | |||
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Hard to beat either of your choices. I have way more experience with the 270 Win so I'd lean that direction. Like idymay375 said, "with appropriate stock length". It makes all the difference in the world. Zeke | |||
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Short girl? Short action, short stock, short barrel. A .308 is much easier to find in a larger variety of guns. A Rem Mod 7 comes to mind but a number of manufacturers make "youth/female" size rifles. Do some warm weather practice with a 20 gauge shotgun using light skeet loads and she'll never notice the recoil of a .308. | |||
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My son brought the DIL a Ruger Ultra lite in 7mm-08. She brags that she wears the same clothes that she did in the 6th grade. Needless to say she is a small gal. So far she has killed several deer and a bear with her 7mm-08 and just loves it. I worked her up to a 139gr with a max load of 4350 | |||
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The 270 Win with either 150 grain bullets at 2850 or 140 grain billets at 2950 is not too far off from 30/06 in recoil. My wife started with the 7x57 ( factory loads 2600 FPS), then the 7mm/08 loaded to 2770 FPS. She has since moved to the 308 Win. She is also small stature at 5’3, short actions and single shots work best. | |||
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Short actions and singleshots, Is that to keep OAL short for a smaller sized shooter? | |||
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7mm-08. I am not a fan of the 308 and 150s in youth guns with 20 inch barrels. Muzzle blast and perceived recoil can be large. While only marginally less actual recoil, a 22 inch 7mm-08 with 140s is a lot less perceived recoil than the 308 described above in my experience with 3 young/small shooters. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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this is actually a tough one. when my kids were younger I worked them up with a 308 but it was from around 1800 fps. and took a couple of years to get them up over 2600 fps. they could all handle 12ga. shotguns no problem so the issue was like noted above, gun weight and muzzle blast. just my opinion but a smaller statured person should have a rifle and cartridge they are competent and comfortable with. I have faith in the 7-08 cartridge since I have been shooting the 7x57 since I was about 10-11 years old,,, but anything approaching the 0-6 was to much for me, as was a 5lb. 308 no matter how many shot shells I shot every weekend. I'd look at the 6.5 creedmore for someone that weighs 80lbs. looking to tackle an Elk. | |||
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7mm08 with 120gr TTSX would do 3100 fps easy and if it groups well, it would work as well as a 270 and be easier to shoot accurately. If she can handle it in a Kimber Montna, she will probably want to keep the rifle for the rest of her life. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I started my boys and grandsons out on single shot rifles. Ruger # 1 and TC Encore etc. Several inches shorter than a bolt rifle. A single shot is good for them. "Make the first shot count." Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Slow powders don’t have less recoil than fast powders. In fact with equal velocity it is just the opposite. Let me be the first to say a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 Remington would be great as well. 140 Nosler partition at 2600-2700 is just great as would be a Barnes 120 or 130 tsx. Using 36-37 grains of Varget or 42-45 of h414 or 4350 speed powders results in good soft shooting loads. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Yes sir and the manipulation of the action. A long action is awkward for her. | |||
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It all depends on how much recoil she can handle; like men I know, some can't handle a 308 and some can handle a 458. That is what matters most; if she can't shoot it, then the cartridge is moot. 270s kick. | |||
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I really like the 7mm-08 cartridge. Like the .308 Winchester as well. Great calibers "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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Having helped a couple smaller girls lately, the short action that was easy to operate both lifting and feeding turned out to be important. Light weight 7mm-08 is about right 20-22 inch barrel. Another thing not paid much attention to is grip.I had to thin and remove some off top of wrist so one could reach trigger correctly. Low mounts if useing scope. | |||
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Hi, with much respect for you guys. I want a rifle/cartridge that she will use and say her dad bought it for her. Maybe something in the range of 300 yards. I like the 7x57. I do got mauser action but that's my dream. There's great cartridges out there that'll do it. We hunt elk deer and antelope so a 1 gun will probably be her only gun. | |||
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The much hated on ar but much loved by consumers 6.5 creedmoor. Mike | |||
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Another option is the short mags, loaded down until she can handle more recioil. | |||
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Are suppressors legal for you? Nothing removes recoil like a suppressor. Thereafter take your pick of cartridges. I love my 270 but would choose a 7mm08 in your case. | |||
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I hate to say it, but yes, this is an option. After struggling with the same question last fall for my very small 11-year old, we ended up with a Browning Micro Midas (one of the few left-handed rifles available for small people) in 6.5 Creedmoor. It is a great little rifle. We snagged a few boxes of HSM's reduced recoil loads with 140 grain Sierras and are off and running. She killed her first head of big game with the rifle last October - a nice pronghorn. I would recommend the rifle and cartridge. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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Suppressors are highly regulated here, costs $200 for the registration, and no one uses them for hunting. I think a 6.5 Creedmoor is what she needs. That is what I would do for my daughter. But she is already 30 and doesn't want to hunt any more. That is what happens so let her do it now. Now the question is, what to you want to spend. $6000 for a higher end titanium and kevlar, or $1000 for something more down to earth? | |||
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My kids elk rifle was a 250-3000 and it worked great, my first elk rifle was a 25-35 Win,and it worked very good, My brother used a 30-30..Its important to keep the range under a 100 yards..For deer my kids and grandkids all used the 222 Remington...Ive never shot a Creedmore but it sounds like the way to go these days..again keep the range short, wounding an animal is the best way I know to turn anyone away from hunting and its an unnecessary event for the most part, again keep the range short. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Creedmoor 6.5 is your old 250 Savage necked up to 6.5mm. Straightened a bit. Throated long so you can use heavy bullets. | |||
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7mm-08 of those two choices. Load it with 139gr or 145gr LRX's and slay some game. Or a 6.5 Creedmoor. | |||
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No need to go past the 7mm-08, It'll shoot any animal you want on your continent and do it with accuracy and less felt recoil of most any cartridge shooting a 140gr bullet. Nice light short action rifle, a Marlin XS would be perfect but nothing wrong with any of the other makes with a plastic stock and 22" barrel. Pity you guys have so many restrictions on suppressors. With one of these on a 7mm-08 it is just so nice a cartridge to shoot. It is almost an exception here that someone is not using a suppressor. I and my 3 adult sons all use the 7mm-08, 2 Marlin XS, 1 Weatherby Vanguard and 1 Remington SPS, I'm the only one not using a suppressor, yet! 45.0grs Varget with 120gr Sierra and 43.0grs Varget with 139gr Hornady SST are tack drivers, the 120gr load would be perfect for a beginner. | |||
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 I got my daughter a first rifle. She is 5’ and petite. I bought a Weatherby Camilla designed for women. Fits her and has no discernible recoil in 6.5 Creedmore. She can hunt anything up to Eland with it and loves the rifle. She is going to Zim with me in August.USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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look forward to hearing how it works and what your daughter shoots in Zim. i may take my k95 in 6.5 next time. Mike | |||
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Quite a few people use them, especially for hunting hogs and the like. It's a small percentage though because of the regulations. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I hesitated on a browning micro midas left hand in 6.5 creedmoor and now you can't find them. I think that would have been about perfect for my daughter though she did kill her first buck with my 6.5 prc this past season. I put the brake on it for her and it was fine but the rifle is too big. I will probably go with the 7-08 for her in the LH micro midas. If I can find one... | |||
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When looking for a rifle for a beginner many place all the emphasis on calibre. A youth or even many women are smaller in stature and have difficulty handling bigger longer rifles. Longer rifles put too much weight out on the forearm and a small person has trouble handling it. A shorter lighter rifle is far more manageable. So if a bolt action is the choice stay with a shorter lighter rifle in a short action cal. 260, 6.5 creed,7-08 in a short rifle would all work.A single shot is also good if a shorter barrel is used | |||
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My daughter killed her first deer when she was 8 with my 6.5 Creedmoor. My kids and I have killed about 30 or so deer with it so far and as much hate mail as it gets here, my experience with it has been nothing but positive. I would have no qualms about using it on elk and moose either and probably will in the near future. All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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Ruger makes or made a Hawkeye Compact in 308 and 7-08 that would be nice with manged recoil loads. LOP and weight are important. Winchester used to make a Classic Compact too but I don't know how hard they are to find. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I built my son a walnut stocked Mauser 98 in 6.5x55 that weighs just under 7lbs with scope. I load 90 grain bullets with H4895 and get about 2600fps. It’s really easy to shoot and he can shoot bug hole groups with it to build his confidence. He shot his first deer this year with a 125 nosler partition going 2550fps. Plenty for a 100-lb doe and he didn’t even feel the recoil. When he is comfortable with a bit more recoil, I can load him some 140-160 grain bullets to full speed and he will do ok up to elk-sized game. RC Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice, practice, practice. | |||
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In today’s world...I would go 6.5 Creedmoor. A .260 Rem or 6.5 X 55 Swede would be just as good. It is just that factory ammo variety and rifle choices are much more plentiful with the Creedmoor. Recoil is noticeably less and the cartridge just as capable as well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Built my kid a 6.5 CM, put a muzzle brake on it. She has zero problem with it, and can shoot gongs to 1000 yards if I set her up. She's 9. | |||
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I would recommend not using a muzzle brake for a kid. The blast and noise can be brutal, especially for young ears. Use loads producing less recoil and if you have one, use a suppressor. Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice, practice, practice. | |||
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I could check and see if any of your current hunting rifles have reduced recoil ammunition available for them. If so, I would pick up a box to determine what amount of recoil your daughter is comfortable with. The next decision point would be the number of hunting rifles you expect your to have. If it's only one, I would opt for the most versatile cartridge and see what the reduced recoil ammunition options are. John in Oregon | |||
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Daddys beware, its easy to pick a caliber you like, as opposed to little sisters needs..Keep caliber small to start with and for elk the creedmore sounds like the ticket, but only if you keep shots under a 100 yards and standing broadside IMO..stupid guides and dumb daddys have ruined many a kid from ever wanting to hunt. Ive seen it time and time again.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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