In getting ready for a new hunting season and starting early like a good reloader should, I need some opinions.

I'm trying to pick a all-round bullet for my .300 Win Mag that I can use on Deer and Elk. I shoot Barnes all ready but I saw some penetration tests my buddy did with the Swifts and all I could say was WOW!
They held together EXTREMELY WELL and the leaves on the mushroom were really wide which I would think is a good property for killing power, far better than the Accubonds and Interlocks we tried before, which made me question my Barnes XLC's.


(Please stick to these bullets for opinions and suggestions, thanks)

Which ever one YOUR rifle shoots the best.

For an all around bullet, I think the 180grNP is a good bet. The Swift may prove to be a but hard for deer size game. The nose on the partition is always going to expand, the base is always going to penetrate.

either is a great elk bullet, but if you are going to shoot deer as well, then you will need something that opens up fast. the scirroco might do it, but a nosler partition would probably be a better bet.

in the end, the most accurate bullet is going to probably be the one you want to use,

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum61:

I'm trying to pick a all-round bullet for my .300 Win Mag that I can use on Deer and Elk. I shoot Barnes all ready but I saw some penetration tests my buddy did with the Swifts and all I could say was WOW!
They held together EXTREMELY WELL and the leaves on the mushroom were really wide which I would think is a good property for killing power, far better than the Accubonds and Interlocks we tried before, which made me question my Barnes XLC's.


(Please stick to these bullets for opinions and suggestions, thanks)

Some information, particularly the graphs

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html#solids

I've tried the Swift Scirroccos and could not get the accuracy. They are supposed to be made with that Juenke Machine to have better concentricity but haven't been able to get them to shoot well in 3 different rifles. They are supposed to open wide but this actually retards penetration.

The Accubonds are supposed to open wide and shed some of the front and the petals are supposed to fold back against the shaft and continue penetrating. That's why some think that if you have a small hole going in and a small hole going out then you didn't get mushrooming - not true (according to Nosler). The Accubonds are the second most accurate bullet IMHO.

The Interlocks, I don't know about, but they are not considered a "premium" bullet and are not bonded and should expand readily and penetrate less than others.

If you have been shooting the XLC's, then you should try the TSX's. I gave up on XLC's before the TSX's came out. Could not make them shoot.

My opinion, if you can make the Accubonds shoot well, that's the best. They should shoot better than the Scirroccos.

The Scirroccos would certainly be a good bullet, if they'll shoot.

The Barnes TSX's will be accurate and do the job. Just aim for the shoulders on close/high velocity shots and heart/lung on long/low velocity shots.


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

I'm curious about the results of the penetration tests your buddy did. Like Woods said...what I've seen of the scirrocco it expands so much that it usually doesn't penetrate real good. And I also couldn't get the scirrocco's to shoot in a couple different guns. I have had good luck with the swift a-frame though and it is one tough deep penetrating bullet. Tell us what your buddy came up with please.

The Scirocco, even though it lost a lot of its lead it held a nice mushroom. I really like the idea of these companies trying to make something of these plastic tipped bullets and their accuracy with adding penetration traits, FINALLY!

The Swift blew the doors down in toughness but from seeing what others have done with the Interlocs and the Accubonds, they all kill well.

I've always been leery of the Nosler bullets, even though I've seen some awesome one shot kills with them, I just don't like how they come apart so easy in the front but I'm a newbie so my opinion doesn't hold much ground.

I would like the Barnes to work but the dilemma now is whether the 168gr TSX will be enough if an elk or bear pops up at some distance.

I just like it that my 180 gr. Barnes load is iching 3200fps and its under an inch but I've been told that they wont open up and I need to go lighter in the weight.

HEY .300 WIN MAG GUYS, HELP ME OUT?!?!!? please...

quote:

I just don't like how they come apart so easy in the front

could you elaborate? my understanding is that by design, the nosler partition is SUPPOSED to wipe away all the way down to the partition. that's the part (the front) where it expands, so naturally, you aren't going to find much up front after it goes through an elk.

the back part (behind the partition) is the part that is supposed to carry the rest of the bullet (including the expanded front half of the jacket) through. once the front has expanded, it is pretty much gone, wiped all over the wound channel. as far as i know, this is exactly what they are supposed to do.

I would feel comfortable with that 168 to as far as I am capable of shooting. It's a little heavier than needed, but it'll do. JMO, Dutch.

I'm not trying to knock the Nosler bullets by any means but like everyone else, I was just stating my opinion also.

To elaborate, I just like the idea that barnes has with the wide sharp pettles churning as they pass through. Where most bullets just punch a hole. Even on gel tests this is shown, the Barnes just flat does more damage internally than most lead bullets. But the Scirocco kind of has this idea going for itself with how wide and tough the pettles are compared to Accubonds and Interbonds.

Barnes X article with Gel photo

That is the site to the photo's of the Barnes in the Gels. The bullet just chews up the first 10".

For any 30 Mag a 180-200 grain Nosler partition is the gold standard. There are more expensive bullets, there are more accurate bullets, but for terminal performance on game small to big ( not dangerous game ) they simply perform.

Not all rifles like the Noslers and working with loads could be warranted. I use 200 gr Noslers almost exclusivly in my 30 mags and it is the right bullet for all game the rifle is suitable for. No it isn't neccesary on deer, but if an elk or moose is a combo on your tag it doesn't get much better than that.

The downside to the Swift A-frames is double the cost of the Noslers, and that is a big factor when practice rounds are figured into the equation. I would look at Swifts and super premium bullets in other calibers more suited to danderous game, but for the 7mm and 30 bore in regards to hunting there simply is no reason to experiment except I want to fiddle on the reloading bench.

I think they'd be awesome on deer but I'm still undecided about trying them on elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum61:
In getting ready for a new hunting season and starting early like a good reloader should, I need some opinions.

I'm trying to pick a all-round bullet for my .300 Win Mag that I can use on Deer and Elk. I shoot Barnes all ready but I saw some penetration tests my buddy did with the Swifts and all I could say was WOW!
They held together EXTREMELY WELL and the leaves on the mushroom were really wide which I would think is a good property for killing power, far better than the Accubonds and Interlocks we tried before, which made me question my Barnes XLC's.


(Please stick to these bullets for opinions and suggestions, thanks)

I don't think much of the Scirocco, or Swift for that matter. I've tried them in 7m/m and I didn't think they were any better than Nosler's (then new) bonded bullet. For the price I'd choose something different.

Having loaded the 300Win mag, not shooting it, the guys I loaded for let me decide on the bullet, the most recent was the 180 Hornady Interlock, figured this would be just fine for deer and if he ever wanted to hunt elk, it'd work great for that, too. He was quite impressed by the accuracy compared with the factory rounds he'd used previously(just a bit over an inch, if I remember) and he admits, he's not the best shot in the world. At any rate, he knocked down 2 nice bucks with it last fall. But, after loading some 165 Interbonds for a guys 7600 30-06 in which he put down 4 elk in as many shots, I was as impressed as the guy I loaded for when he said "them bullets you loaded for me are awesome" all bullets went through and through, and knocked em' down in their tracks. That being said, My vote is for the 180 Interbond, cheaper than any of the other "Premium" bullets. And I'm confident they'll do as well as any bullet you've mentioned. Jay

quote:

I just like it that my 180 gr. Barnes load is iching 3200fps and its under an inch but I've been told that they wont open up and I need to go lighter in the weight.

Horsehockey! 180 grain Barnes will open up on deer as well as larger game. Stick with them.

Thanks for the comment but do you mind backing that up with how you know that so I can quit bugging everyone on this website and get to shooting...

Thanks

Here is a 180 grain Scirocco I took a 300 pound mule deer buck with last year.

The deer was facing me head on and the impact was just to the right of centre of the deer's chest. The bullet traveled the length of the deer and was recovered under the hide of the rear quarter.

The rifle was chambered in 30-06 and the shot was taken from about ~300 yards. The bullet retained ~80% of it's mass. Muzzle velocity was just over 2800 fps The Sciroccos shoot sub-moa in my rifle.

I am quite pleased with the bullet.

One vote for Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. All three of my 300s love them, they are not as slow expanding as the Swifts and work like magic on deer and elk. I've used the 180 grain for more than 75 animals up to and including Eland and have had great reults. I really like the Swifts but my 300s don't. I like Swifts in my 416 for buff. Actually the best "premium" bullet is the one that is most accurate in your gun. Todays premium bullets are all excellent! Good luck!

My vote goes for the Barnes XLC or TSX...I have experience with the 168 XLC out of a .308 Warbird at +3500 fps MV, so there was definite dramatic expansion and exits on Antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk. Impact velocities ranged from -2500fps, to ~3000fps and I was pleased with all results. The only bullet I recovered passed through more than 2.5 feet of elk after shearing off its petals and coming to rest on the far side of the animal just under the hide.
After I sold my Warbird, I bought a 300 RUM (just couldn't stay away from the magnums) and opted to use the factory 180gr Swift Scirocco loads. The only animal I shot with it was a young mule deer buck at about 100yds. He was lying down, looking at me, so I shot him at the juncture of the neck and body. Impact velocity at 2900-3000 fps, and the bullet penetrated just to the hide on rear side of his neck just above the spine. No exit, but penetrated close to 12 inches through pure muscle and bone. Bullet recovered, flattened to the base, with most of the lead gone, with probably about 40% weight retention. Will not use them or any other bonded polymer tip bullet again. They just open up TOO much, whereas the Barnes opens up, sheers it's petals (which consequently turn into 4 rather large chunks of shrapnel for larger wound channel) and the shank continues to plow through with enough punch to break offside shoulders or traverse lengthwise through a body cavity. Barnes bullets are first choice for me everytime, and if none are available, gimme some Nosler Partitions!

quote:

Originally posted by Cariboo:
Here is a 180 grain Scirocco I took a 300 pound mule deer buck with last year.

The deer was facing me head on and the impact was just to the right of centre of the deer's chest. The bullet traveled the length of the deer and was recovered under the hide of the rear quarter.

The rifle was chambered in 30-06 and the shot was taken from about ~300 yards. The bullet retained ~80% of it's mass. Muzzle velocity was just over 2800 fps The Sciroccos shoot sub-moa in my rifle.

I am quite pleased with the bullet.

That Scirocco looks just like the 165INTERBOND my buddy pulled from an elk after it went through the one in front of it, and it retained 87% of it's original weight, like I said, I'll take the Interbond, much less expensive. Jay

I am shooting the TXS's in 30-06,300 Win,338 Win, 300 RUM, 338 RUM and I have found them to be extremely accurate and the terminal performance secound to none

I would use the Barnes and Swift to shoot rocks and go hunting with North Fork. www.northforkbullets.com

I'm not a fan of the Nosler Partition and solely because of it's propensity to shed the lead in it's front cavity.

Having said that there is probably no other bullet so widely used and with absolute confidence than that bullet. Users are overwhelmingly satisfied with them. This says a lot about any product.

My favorite bullet to date is the A-Frame and like 500 Grains I think the Northfork is a superb bullet as well.

Okay, now I need someone with experiance to answer this in detail if they can.

180gr. or 168gr. Barnes?...for a Deer/Elk bullet

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum61:
Okay, now I need someone with experiance to answer this in detail if they can.

180gr. or 168gr. Barnes?...for a Deer/Elk bullet

Either one will work the TXS will penetrate plenty. The 168 can be pushed a little faster and the 180 has a better B.C. I am shooting the 168's in my 30-06 and the 180's in the 300 win and 300 RUM either bullet should give complete pass through penetration on deer or elk

How can 12 grains of bullet weight make much difference?

That's as detailed as I get.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum61:
Okay, now I need someone with experiance to answer this in detail if they can.

180gr. or 168gr. Barnes?...for a Deer/Elk bullet

For deer, definitely the lighter bullet. For elk, definitely the heavir bullet. As for Barnes, too many fouled barrels and inaccurate groups caused me to give up on them long ago.

Okay, I get it now, I just wanted to see if there was going to be any large difference in any one persons experience but it sounds like the both weights are going to the range and whoever shoots better, goes to the field.

Some people may swear by one weight or the other but I just upgraded from a 7/08 tack driver to a Rem 300 SAUM and my long time gunsmith said if wanted accuracy in the 300 go with the 180. I found the 180TSX to be very accurate with H4350EXT. I did not want to burn up a lot of money target shooting with Barnes so after a little browsing on ballistic tables I decided to try the Sierra 165 Gameking HPBT for plinking. I get the same accuracy with the 165 so the 168 gr Barnes TSX may get a try in my rifle this summer. All I gain is a little speed and the deer don't give a flip about speed. They just flip.

I have been shooting the factory Winchester Supreme line in 180 grains: Failsafes, then Partition Golds, and now the Accubonds CT. All performed awesome on everything from big mulies and whitetails, to elk and moose.

I an now in the pocess of reloading 18ogr, 200gr, 150 gr. in the Accubonds and Barnes TSX.

This past hunting season my fiance using a new Tikka T3 LS 270WSM with 140gr. Accubonds Winchester Supreme Ammuntion shot her mulie, and cow elk with perfect bullet performance.

So now I bought the same rifle and reloading using 140gr Accubonds and 150 Barnes TSX, using Retumbo powder, federal 215 primers.

So far