Loaded to equal pressures (say 52,000 CUP), which round gives more velocity, 358 Win or 9X57?

Just pure speculation on my part, but since the 9x57 has a little more powder capacity, I'd say the 9x57 would probably be the winner.

In comparing similar bullet weights in both cartridges:

I believe the original Winchester ammo spec for the .358 Winchester was a 250 gr bullet at 2250 fps. According to a reprint of a Mauser inter-war catalog that I have, the 9x57 was loaded with a 247 gr bullet at 2296 fps. (Some other sources say 2310 fps. Kynoch loaded a 245 gr bullet at 2150 fps.)

The 9x57 Mauser
http://www.african-hunter.com/9x57_mauser.htm

-Bob F.

In my rifles, the 9x57 is clearly more powerful than the .358 Winchester when handloaded to everyday working max. As already mentioned, the 9x57 has more case capacity. Same size case head*, same size bullet*, 51 m/m long case for the .358, 57 m/m long case for the 9x57.

(* At least within a couple of thousandths of an inch.)

Or,better yet, you can load to the same performance at lower pressures, in the 9x57.

quote:

Just pure speculation on my part, but since the 9x57 has a little more powder capacity, I'd say the 9x57 would probably be the winner.

Yes, of course! The same difference that exists between the 7X57mm and the 7mm/'08, the 6mm Rem and the .243 Win., etc., etc. The 57mm case wins every time, albeit by a very narrow margin!

And I'll add that the 9x57 has a little more class than the 358 Winnie, albeit, but a slim margin...

Jason, Jason! Have you ever looked hard at the Savage 99? I can say there are guns with equal class. But not many that outclass the 99. Certainly none in the lever guns I have handles, not even the 1886 Winchester. Just a pet peeve of mine. I have however handled a Euro made gun in .358, Double set triggers, butterknife bolt handle, .... It was a case of buyers remorse there. I didn't buy it! And was remorseful. Still, it had no more class than my 99 brush gun in .358WCF.

Would it be unwise to build a 9x57 with a .358" bore/groove diameter rather than the original .356" bore. I don't see why not. Do you? Even if, for some odd reason, I had to use ammo with .356" bullets, I don't see why it wouldn't shoot. I would load my own anyway.

Matt I've pondered this question myself and the conclusion I came to was no.

There's only .002" difference and I can't seem to find a supply of .356" bullets anywhere. .358"'s however are plentiful and I doubt your reloading dies would notice the difference.

Were I to build a 9x57, I'd go with the commonly available .358"'s.

This is one instance where, if I were building a gun, I'd opt for the .358 winnie as components are much cheaper. That includes dies, cases, and reamers.

I agree that the .358 and a Savage 99 would be a super combo.

Tex21,
when i had my reamer ground for this cartridge i had it made with a removable pilot. i have a 35 cal barrel that i am making one for myself so i can use a larger assortment of bullets.
max

A pre-64 Winchester model 88 would have enough class for me as well. Ninety-nines are classy though.

I think that a lot of people, such as myself, appreciate historical rifles and cartridges, and like to see them revived. I think the 358 win is a great round, but the 9X57 was as well in it's day. A 9X57 (or most any classic pre-war cartridge) made up on an old DWM or Oberndorf action with classic mauser lines just makes my heart piter-pater. To me, the 358 Win belongs in a CRF model 70 or model 88. These have their own romance as well. To each his own.

quote:

This is one instance where, if I were building a gun, I'd opt for the .358 winnie as components are much cheaper. That includes dies, cases, and reamers.

I agree with ColoradoMatt. There's practicality and then there is the history, nostalgia and romance. I like the history, nostalgia and romance aspect also. A practical alternative to the 9x57 would be either the .358 Winchester or the .35 Whelen. I already own a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62 so I would really have no need for a 9x57. But, there would just be something sweet about a nice little custom Mauser rifle chambered for the 9x57 Mauser cartridge. Yes, it's madness!!!

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
But, there would just be something sweet about a nice little custom Mauser rifle chambered for the 9x57 Mauser cartridge. Yes, it's madness!!!

-Bob F.

Like this one?

If I was building a short action, I'd go for the 358 win or 350 Rem mag, and in a long action I'd go for the whelen.

If however one has a fine X57 parent mauser, the 9X57 would be a neat round to load. Falling between the 358 win and 35 whelen isn't a bad place to be!

HP,

No thanks, I'll pass on that one. Too tacky.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
HP,

No thanks, I'll pass on that one. Too tacky.

-Bob F.

Bob, I am fairly uneducated on custom rifles, but I don't see where the rifle is tacky (other than the tablecloth it is on).

It is certainly not the classic American style, but it looks like it has all the ingredients of a classic German sporter: action panels, DST, small schnabel tip, butterknife bolt handle, RK pistol grip, hex/round barrel, matted full-length rib, drop leaf rear sight, nice oil finish, nice semi matte blue.

Is the German style something you don't like, or is there something actually incorrect about that rifle?

And what is that little metal tab sticking out of the forearm?

Only interested if it comes with the Elvis Stars 'n Bars...

For the record, I think the classic German style is cool and I am not ashamed to say it.

HP,

I have nothing against classic German styling. I just don't like the looks of that particular rifle. Just my personal opinion, nothing more or less. In general, I like the looks of a classic Type A or B Mauser rifle.

Something along these lines:



-Bob F.

I have a handful Mexican mauser actions and I think the 9x57 would be a perfect fit in one.

quote:

And what is that little metal tab sticking out of the forearm?

On the under side of the barrel there is a tab with a slot milled into it. A wedge goes thru the forearm side plates and the barrel tab, effectively pinning the barrel to the stock. A very meticulous way of "bedding" the barrel to the forearm. The wedge must be removed for disassembly.

It is a shame that particular rifle has been modified for a cheap scope mount, especially the bolt handle. I'm sure it was much nicer in its original shape, and can probably be restored.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
I agree with ColoradoMatt. There's practicality and then there is the history, nostalgia and romance. I like the history, nostalgia and romance aspect also. A practical alternative to the 9x57 would be either the .358 Winchester or the .35 Whelen. I already own a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62 so I would really have no need for a 9x57. But, there would just be something sweet about a nice little custom Mauser rifle chambered for the 9x57 Mauser cartridge. Yes, it's madness!!!

-Bob F.

I like history too, that's why i have this fine little rifle in 9.3x57:



Since I also have Mausers in 9.3x62, 8x60, 8x57, 7x57, 7.65x53, 6.5x55, and 8x68S. I feel I have enough rifles chambered in "exotic" cartridges thus requiring, for the most part "exotic" thus expensive components. Like I said, if I were building one in .35 caliber I'd opt for the .358 cuz sometimes it's nice to be able to feed the rifle inexpensively. I'd just tell everyone I have a 9x51mm and be done with it.

If I had the chance to pick up a nice "original" 9x57 I would but, I would not build one.