The Accurate Reloading Forums
Short Magnums are getting turboed
09 December 2010, 16:40
.366torqueShort Magnums are getting turboed
Hodgdon is starting to release the
Hornady Pixie Dust.09 December 2010, 21:34
rcamugliaThe Superformance looks interesting. I'm guessing they are taking the lead from Alliant and RL line of powders that produce high velocity. RL-17 as an example.
The "High Velocity" guys will be happy.
There's no "Free Lunch". With those higher velocities comes shorter barrel life!
09 December 2010, 22:51
MileHighShooterWow! It will be interesting to see what WSM loaders will be able to do with this powder, since it has a larger capacity then the SAUM and RCM offerings.
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
09 December 2010, 22:56
Bear in FairbanksHope they include data for the .270 WSM. I'm surprised to see what they get with a 150 gr. bullet in the .300 WSM. Looks interesting for sure.
Bear in Fairbanks
Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes.
I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have.
Gun control means using two hands.
10 December 2010, 01:01
Docquote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
There's no "Free Lunch". With those higher velocities comes shorter barrel life!
I agree. But all the reason for a new barrel!
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns
10 December 2010, 03:53
Antelope Sniperquote:
There's no "Free Lunch". With those higher velocities comes shorter barrel life!
The fact that it's a ball, and not a stick powder will have more effect on barrel life then the added velocity.
10 December 2010, 04:16
vapodogquote:
Originally posted by .366torque:
Hodgdon is starting to release the
Hornady Pixie Dust.
I'm taking a wait and see.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
10 December 2010, 06:18
NEJackAfter seeing some of the Superformance ammo in 30-06 and 25-06, I suspect it isn't quite as revolutionary as they claimed. The increase in velocity was there, but so was pressure signs.
10 December 2010, 06:48
RMillerInteresting. I was leaning towards a 180 for the 300 wsm though.
--------------------
THANOS WAS RIGHT!
10 December 2010, 07:00
Art S.From the 6mm Remington and 243 data, I may be able to nudge 4000 with a 6-284 or 240 weatherby.
10 December 2010, 07:01
bartscheOn another thread there was some disparaging remarks about old guys not appreciating what's new in rifling. Well while doing a little introspection I can see how this may be the case. Cause when I just asked myself what does this new and wonderful powder give to the hunting fraternity something it doesn't already have, the answer came back," nothing."
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
10 December 2010, 08:12
Fish30114Is it truly possible to get such increases in speed without relative increases in pressure?
Is it as simple as this powder is more efficient than current powders for these calibers?? It seems to be too broad of a cartridge range advertised to be this simple...
I just wonder what this new powder does that a current burn rate volume doesn't do--and perhaps that is the answer, there isn't a powder that burns at the rate this does at the same volume????
10 December 2010, 08:25
rcamugliaquote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
Is it truly possible to get such increases in speed without relative increases in pressure?
Is it as simple as this powder is more efficient than current powders for these calibers?? It seems to be too broad of a cartridge range advertised to be this simple...
I just wonder what this new powder does that a current burn rate volume doesn't do--and perhaps that is the answer, there isn't a powder that burns at the rate this does at the same volume????
Yes it is.
I have experienced it firsthand with RL-17 in the 6.5 Creedmoor. With H4350 and a 139 gr Lapua Scenar about 2750 to 2800 is expected and obtained. With the RL-17 I was easily able to achieve 2900 to 3000 with no signs of pressure.
These new technology powders work as advertised, but cause excessive barrel wear IME. Upon scoping my Creedmoor barrel after about 1500 rounds of RL-17 propelled bullets, unusually accellerated wear was noticed.
10 December 2010, 08:35
RaySenderoquote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
The Superformance looks interesting. I'm guessing they are taking the lead from Alliant and RL line of powders that produce high velocity. RL-17 as an example.
The "High Velocity" guys will be happy.
There's no "Free Lunch". With those higher velocities comes shorter barrel life!
WOW, Just imagine if it will do this for short mags - Think what it'll do for:
The real over bores!
AND think what it'll do for the GS profession to keep puting on all those new barrels!!!
________
Ray
11 December 2010, 01:16
Fish30114RC, very interesting...my questioin to you would be that do you feel that the quicker barrel degradation is due to the powder burning hotter or at higher pressure?
I guess I'm just so used to the principal of no 'free lunch' so to speak....I would sure try some if there was not increase in pressure or temps and you get better velocities...it seems I need to buy a book or study up on powders more!
11 December 2010, 02:05
rcamugliaquote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
RC, very interesting...my questioin to you would be that do you feel that the quicker barrel degradation is due to the powder burning hotter or at higher pressure?
I guess I'm just so used to the principal of no 'free lunch' so to speak....I would sure try some if there was not increase in pressure or temps and you get better velocities...it seems I need to buy a book or study up on powders more!
On the Alliant site, I think it describes the kernels as having some kind of layering causing the powder to have some kind of graduated burning down the barrel.
I think for a hunting gun where you may want top velocity for some reason, it may be fine since your barrel will usually last a lifetime. I used to be impressed with velocity and tried to max it out. Since I've been shooting a lot of target rifles, I've changed. Most target rifles shoot great at around 2900 and even less.
11 December 2010, 02:31
Antelope SniperImagine it this way:
Your powder kernels are cake.
In the old days the only way to retard the burn rate was to put some frosting on the cake. This would retard the burn rate of the top layer of the cake, but once the frosting was gone, the center of the cake would burn at it's original rate.
With the new powder, the retardants are like milk. The milk soaks into the cake and changes the burn rate of the entire kernal, not just the top layer (in reality they just penetrate deeper, they still don't penetrate all the way to the center).
This enables the powder makers to have greater control of the burn characteristics over a greater portion of the burn time.
The old addage that you can't get something for nothing is only valid if technology never improves. These new powdera are an improvement in technology.
11 December 2010, 05:20
.366torquequote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Imagine it this way:
Your powder kernels are cake.
In the old days the only way to retard the burn rate was to put some frosting on the cake. This would retard the burn rate of the top layer of the cake, but once the frosting was gone, the center of the cake would burn at it's original rate.
With the new powder, the retardants are like milk. The milk soaks into the cake and changes the burn rate of the entire kernal, not just the top layer (in reality they just penetrate deeper, they still don't penetrate all the way to the center).
This enables the powder makers to have greater control of the burn characteristics over a greater portion of the burn time.
The old addage that you can't get something for nothing is only valid if technology never improves. These new powdera are an improvement in technology.
That's a handy piece of information, great way to simplify the process. Thanks for the info.
11 December 2010, 05:25
ztrehDoes this new powder kill them deader than what existing powder we now have??????? And if so, how??
11 December 2010, 06:07
D HumbargerLOok at the pressures they are running. All the modern rounds are in the 60,000 psi ramge.
Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73.
Yankee Station
Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo.
11 December 2010, 07:53
MileHighShooterHoly crap!!! Some of those WSM numbers are NOT all that far away from date I'm finding for the 300 Wby...and thats in 26" barrels. Yes, some are faster, but dang the WSM is getting a lot closer then you'd expect. Hmm....maybe its about time to start looking for another 300wsm!
You know, I wonder about this powder in bigger cases...something tells me Hornady was using different powders for the larger cases in the Superformance line.
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
12 December 2010, 05:45
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by .366torque:
Hodgdon is starting to release the
Hornady Pixie Dust.
first folks bitch that the powder isn't available.. and now its avaialble, its hard on barrels .. you'd kick if they hung you with a new rope.
62,500 PSI is really close to the ole "low pressure" 375 hh - 55kCUP
12 December 2010, 06:03
vapodogquote:
Originally posted by D Humbarger:
LOok at the pressures they are running. All the modern rounds are in the 60,000 psi ramge.
Yup....I makes it very difficult for the "AI" folks to improve on them!
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
12 December 2010, 07:13
Fish30114quote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Imagine it this way:
Your powder kernels are cake.
In the old days the only way to retard the burn rate was to put some frosting on the cake. This would retard the burn rate of the top layer of the cake, but once the frosting was gone, the center of the cake would burn at it's original rate.
With the new powder, the retardants are like milk. The milk soaks into the cake and changes the burn rate of the entire kernal, not just the top layer (in reality they just penetrate deeper, they still don't penetrate all the way to the center).
This enables the powder makers to have greater control of the burn characteristics over a greater portion of the burn time.
The old addage that you can't get something for nothing is only valid if technology never improves. These new powdera are an improvement in technology.
Sniper, that is damn helpful, and yeah, I do understand the technology changing thing! Thanks a lot for explaining it in a way I can get my admittedly 'powder knowledge limited' mind around it!