Am lucky, or do I not ask enough? I own a 30-06, FN '51 Mauser and a 308 Mark X Whitworth. Both of these will shoot most factory and reloads sub 1.5" groups, and some reloads around an inch. I also own a308 and 7-08 VLS. These will shoot most factory around an inch and most reloads at .75" or better. All I have done is a little trigger work and floated the VLSs. BTW these were bought used and I paid less than $350 for the Mausers and less than $500 for the VLSs. Am I lucky or are most guns this good? capt david

While I have never had a "bad" shooter, I think you are definetly leaning towards the charmed side of gun life! I think most factory rifles will shoot some loads under 1 1/2" but few will break 1". I have a M700VS in .308 that likes anyones match load, usually breaking 1" & handloads will half that. All I ever did was adjust the trigger on that one. My Ruger #1S in 7mag never produced a group much bigger than 1 1/2" w/ factory loads. It's now a 7mm Dakota & only gets handloads. Other than a trigger job, that rifle was never "tweeked". Count your blessings my friend.

They all shot that good at 25FT. captdavid. Move the target out a little. roger

Consider yourself blessed my friend. My last three new rifles, two of them Remingtons, have required glass bedding, barrel floating and trigger work to get them to shoot well. I'm not thrilled at shelling out $200. extra on new firearms to make them perform acurately. I'm starting to look harder at the used rifle racks lately. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I won't own a rifle that won't shoot 3-shot, 0.5 MOA; lightweight "mountain" rifles included. I've had to do some sorting, and quite a bit of load development in some cases, but I get what I want.

I free flaot (myself) first; if that doesn't work, then I glass bed it (myself), if that doesn't work, I sell it. I have no trouble whatsoever selling a rifle that shoots 0.75-1MOA - I can do better than that.

Nowadays, most of my rifles (or I should say actions) are on there second, third, and in some cases, fourth barrel, so I only rarely pick up factory rifles anymore. My most recent factory rifle purchase was a 700 BDL in 280 that shoots 0.25ish MOA w/ Federal 150 Factory load - this is without a doubt the most accurate factory rifle / factory ammo combo I have ever come across.

I've owned a number of other 700s, 721s, and 722s that would do almost as well, though not with factory ammo. Actually, one 721 (a 30-06) would shoot about 0.5-0.6MOA with the Win 180 power-point round nose factory load - not too bad either.

Can't say I've ever owned a Mauser, Winchester, Ruger, Sako, or Weatherby that would even come close to this type of accuracy, though that may just be bad luck of the draw - I'm sure they are plenty of super-accurate ones out there.

I've owned some custom barrel jobs on some pushfeed model 70 actions, and they shoot as good as the 700s. Just my experience...

9.3, if I bought a rifle off the rack that shot in the 2's I'd be off to buy a lottery ticket.

If you read the gun tests, some are crap by the way, what I've seen over the past couple of years is "almost" every factory rifle is shooting 1 1/4" to 1 3/4" with most factory loads. They had a recent test on one of the special 700's, can't remember which caliber, and I think most of the loads were in the 2.5-3" range.

I'd like a rifle to shoot under 1", but my little Ruger RSI only shoots 1" to 1 1/4" with most factory loads. Never the less it's a fine rifle. I keep taking it hunting and it keeps killing deer.

I own 1 rifle at the moment, a howa 1500 S/S in 30-06. It shoots the cheap remington express 180 grains into about 1" or less groups. I have never tweaked the rifle or modified it in any way. I bought it brand new, mounted a burris fullfield II scope on it, broke it in and sighted the scope, haven't touched it since. The rifle is a tack driver and couldn't be happier with it, does everything I ask of it. I wish they came in CRF, then I would get one in 416 rem mag.

Sevens

I tell you, the best way to get a super accurate lightweight deer rifle these days, almost for certain, is to score a cheap old model 722 ($250 say), send it to pac-nor for a SS barrel in a 700 "mountain rifle" contour. Pick any standard round in the 243-264 arena - 257 Roberts would be a perfect example. I've got a handful of these little numbers, and they all shoot 0.5MOA or better without bedding.

Pac-nor will lap the lugs, true the action, and screw on a bead-blasted matte SS barrel for $390. Thus, for about $640 (about the price of new Remington BDL) you can have a nice light rifle that will shoot so well it will bring a tear to your eye.

Pac-nor has its quirks, some of which annoy me, but the fact remains that EVERY pac-nor barrel I own, ranging from 24 caliber through to 366 caliber, makes for extremely accurate sporter-weight rifles.

9.3x62, That's great accuracy. Iv'e considered doing that and may still. In fact, both mausers were bought with that possobility in mind, but both have shot sub MOA. I practice with Milsurp that shoots sub1.5" groups and that's good enough for me. I've never shot any big game animal over 250yds and my self limit is 300yds so it isn't needed for my purposes. I've got around $700 in both Mausers and I guess I'd rather have two 1.25" than one 1/2". "You pays your money, you takes your choice." capt david

The top-drawer factory rifles are out there, but it does take some sorting and often times a fair amount load development.

As for super accurate factory rifles, your single best bet is the model 722 in 222. This is, arguably, the single most accurate, mass produced rifle ever made. They can be had for $350-$400 dollars for one is decent shape and they do shoot, at least in my experience.

I've owned a number of 700 243s that were quite accurate as well, one an ADL, another a Classic, and one a left-handed BDL (long story).

I've also heard that the 722s in 244 were capable of excellent accuracy with lighter bullets, thought I've not (yet) owned one, it's on my list though...

Anyway, shooting less than 300 yds, 0.5 MOA is not necessary, it is just my obsession as I love shooting as much as I love hunting, and shooting nice tight groups makes range time very rewarding...

It appears that you have the right frame of mind because you seem to be enjoying yourself with what you have and what you are doing. Others who tilt at wind mills and search for the shooter's holy grail realize a large magnitude of frustration and only see flawed hardware that could if they had their head on straight give them some real measure of pleasure.Some people only eat prime rib and would rather starve (if you listen to them) than condesend and eat Porterhouse.I had a ball yesterday shooting 1/2" groups at 25 yds. with an el cheapo 22rf. roger

Agreed!
I have always looked at off the rack rifles as starting points. A lot of times the original barrels end up as tomato stakes and the original stocks become kindling. An off the floor automobile is not ready for racing or off road driving without at least some tweaking. Rifles are no different.

One of the gun rags ran an article a couple of years ago based upon a reader participation survey of readers' guns (remington, win, and ruger), shooting a mix of factory loaded and reloaded ammo. The results were that factory rifles would average about 2-3" with factory loads, and about half that with custom handloads. This is consistent with the quality control limits established by most manufacturers.

I'd say your rifles are clearly a cut above the average. I have found that most of my rifles will shoot fairly well, ie, on the upper end of that performance curve with at least one factory or handload. Those rifles that won't are not favored, and are subject to sale, trade or being given to a son.

Exceptional accuracy is generally the result of a rifle being carefully tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. This type of work is well worth the effort.

I bought a Kimber 98 in 7mmRM a couple of years ago. I replaced the trigger, worked over the scope mounts and cleaned up the bedding; however it would not shoot. I finally took it to my gunsmith, Walt Sherman, and asked him to sort it out. He did.

His comment to me upon presenting me the bill was that I had brought him a rifle kit. He essentially had rebuilt it: trued the action, lapped the bolt, reseated the barrel, rechambered the rifle, and bedded it. Now it shoots under an inch with at least one load. Unfortunately, the quality of my initial purchase is the situation all too often. Some rifles enjoy a better reputation out of the box than others, but none of them are guaranteed tack drivers.

I saw an article a couple of years ago that suggested that an alternative to buying a custom rifle was to go to a local store, buy 5 to 10 factory rifles, and take them out and shoot them. The statistical probabilities were that you'd have at least one that would be a real tack driver. Keep it, and sell the other rifles. The cost of your rifle plus your loss on the resale of the used rifles would be roughly equal to a custom rifle purchase. I think the man may have had a valid approach. Personally, given the costs of testing and aggravation of buying a selling the rifles, I think I would rather pay to have Walt built me one right the first time. Ku-dude

Amen.
I buy Sako's new sometimes, that is my personal weakness. Otherwise I buy used with a sound action (as best I can tell), and haggle the price down a bit because of the dinged stock and rusty barrel, both of which I often end up pitching or giving away. I get a decent aftermarket stock, and a good barrel, both of which cost more than the original rifle. My gunsmith measures everything, trues whats needs it, and I have exactly what I want for $800.00 to $1,500.00. Sometimes I get lucky, but I never plan on that.
Never plan on luck, and never think that you are owed a factory tack-driver for $700.00. You will only become frustrated and bitter. Accuracy comes from close tolerances and concentric, parallel, or perpendicular machining. All those take time and skill. Neither time or skill comes cheap.
JCN

Every once in awhile you get lucky though...

Here are some groups I fired with my unmodfied 700 in 280. The big groups at right are 140 gr Fed classic factory load; the smaller groups at left are 150 Fed classic factory load. 100 yds, 2.5-8x Sightron SII. The smallest group is actually a 4-shot group (the fouling shot was dead nuts that day I guess)...



I paid $350 for the rifle - it had a semi beat-up stock. I re-stocked it with a BDL walnut stock I had laying around. I didn't even have to adjust the trigger!

Now all I have to work up some good handloads for it..., and, no, they are not over-sized dimes.

I have several very accurate off the shelf rifles. A Mark X Mauser in .243, virtually any load does less than .75 for 3 shots, with .5" common, and somtimes groups as small as .3"!

A Savage 110 in 22-250 is a little ammo sensitive, but with Win 52gr bthp's does .3" 5 shot groups.

A Mark X Manlicher .270 does .75 3 shot groups every time with Fed .270 130gr with the Sierra bt's.

A Win model 70 SS 7mm Rem mag does under an inch at 200yds with Hornady 139gr bt's.

I've had a few. A MarkX .270 that does .750 with about anything you put through it on a good day, but always consistant. I had a Savage 10FP that was scary accurate With .168gr MatchKings, if all the holes weren't touching it was my fault. If I get 1 1/2" out of a new rifle generaly I'm pleased.
And then there's the other side of the coin. I've had a Ruger RSI in .270 that wouldn't do but 3" on a good day Traded it in on a SS/plastic 77MKII in .243 that would spray'm in at 4"!!!!! I cussed Bill Ruger for a couple of years over that one, RIP. I owned a Remington Model#7 in 6MM Rem that would only do 3"-4" and I did everything I could short of a new barrel to make that one shoot, oh the disappointments
Terry

How a rifle shoots is a major source of enjoyment to me. I have various standards, all subject to change, on what satisfies me.

First of all I have to like a gun. So if it's ugly or lacks features that I want then I reject it and make something else work.

For sporters I like the M70's, some old FN's and now the Kimbers. My standard is that the rifle put the first shot from a cold barrel right where I want it. While I shoot groups all of the time I feel that almost anyone can bag anything with the first shot. It's the easiest one also.

So I have rifles that do what I want and others that have hope. It's all in orbit and I shoot them a lot.



The above pic is what I shot on July 14, 2004 at 200 yds. The upper left is a two shot group from a perfect new Kimber 243. This is a six pound rifle that has all the features I like.

The upper right is two two shot groups from my old M70 Swift. The two shots to the left are the first two from a cold barrel. It has a factory barrel and I have tweaked the bedding myself. This rifle is a death ray.