Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am looking for maximum velocities obtained and loads for the 200, 225, 250, 280 and 310 grain bullets in both the 35 Whelen and 35 Whelen Ackley Improved.

I am building a rifle for Alaska hunting, and don't have much data for these two rounds.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

what barrel length are you going to use? I have some old load data at the house for my 35whelen ai. I need to rework my latest data, drop my charge down a bit, it was too hot. Haven't done it yet.

But I have a 26" tube. If you are going with the Whelen might as well do the AI, since it is better to reload for it anyways cost and variety wise. fireforming isn't a bit deal as you can use your fire form load to practice your shooting anyways.

I'll try to remember to look tomorrow night, tonight is valentines of course.

Red

go to www.hodgdon.com for 35 whelen loads and add 50'/sec max for the AI verson

My 35 Brown Whelen started out as a left handed Rem. 700 BDL 30-06 with a 22" barrel, was rebored to .358 with 1-12" rifling and was used as a standard 35 Whelen for a few years before being rechambered to the 35 Brown Whelen.
As a standard Whelen, with IMR4320 or RL15 and a 250gr NP I was getting 2520fps. With Hornady 250gr, 2550fps was a safe max in my rifle.
Sub-min. groups with the 4320 was common.

quote:

go to www.hodgdon.com for 35 whelen loads and add 50'/sec max for the AI verson

I second that. Loaded to equal pressure the AI will gain you 25-50FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

go to www.hodgdon.com for 35 whelen loads and add 50'/sec max for the AI verson

I second that. Loaded to equal pressure the AI will gain you 25-50FPS.

Ramrod.....the Z-Hat info might just represent the highest possible handloads achievable with the 35 whelen family.....pretty impressive I must say.......but IMO a bit optimistic and I suspect over 65,000 PSI which I'd stop at if I could measure it.


250 gr. Hornady spz, Varget
56 gr. 2546
58 gr. 2585
59 gr. 2614
60 gr. 2643
60.5 gr. 2676
61 gr. 2672
61.5 gr. 2684
62 gr. 2707
62.5 gr. 2759 That's impressive

My whelen puts a 250 grain bullet through it at 2600, with RL-15. That is with a 24 inch tube. I would guess you could get another 50 or 75 FPS with with an AI. that does not seem like alot but a 50 FPS with a 250 grain bullet is a fair amount of energy.
if you run into a hungry brown bear I think a little extra muzzle energy might be a good thing...tj3006

I've been at the Whelen & AI place. Have a Whelen and a 9.3x62.

I agree that z-hat data is alittle hot. I can't get more then 62.0 grains of powder under my 225 grain bullets let along 250's. I reach a max load of Varget at 57.0 grains. This provides me with 2550 fps with a 250 gr Speer SP. After that primers begin to flatten significantly.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Thank you for the input vis a vis the 35 Whelen. What I would like to know, does anyone have a 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, and what are the loads and velocities that you have personally chronographed?

In my experience with my 7x57 AI, I obtain a known 200-250 fps increase over the parent 7x57 loaded to modern, high pressure. I am able to reload my 7x57 AI cases approximately 7-8 times, and still have a tight primer fit. So, my pressures in the Ackley are not outrageous.

To obtain my known velocities, I use an Oehler Chronograph in front of a BRNO '98 Mauser with 24 inch #2 Douglas Air gauged barrel.

Therefore, again, I am curious what loads and velocities anyone has obtained in their 35 Whelen AI using a chronograph for the bullet weights that I enumerated above.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

7X57AI 250FPS faster than a 7X57? That's pretty impressive considering stout 7X57 loads nip at the heals of a .280Rem. One thing you need to consider though is the 57 cases benifit more from the AI treatment than any other cartridge.

Terry

Yale.
A 200 Fps gain with a 7X57 is certainly quite a gain.
I would like you to consider that a good chunk of the velocity increase is du to a higher presure rather than a slightly roomier case.
Not sugjesting it is unsafe,I can,t say.
And I may be rong but I bet you can put more powder in a standard mauser case then you do too,closing that 200 FPS gap buy close to 100 Ft.
That is not to say don't AI your whelen but if you get a 200 ft increae in a givin cartridge by AIing, you are likly increasing preasure.
I have herd guys claiming a 500 FPS increase,
Well, if you stuff enough powder in your case you can get quite an increase. But only a portion of that increase is caused by the added case capacity. ...tj3006

on the subject of increased velocity....I've posted this several times and will do so again.....I'm no different than most as I want the max from a cartridge.....but there's a time when enough is enough!

A human being can throw a baseball at 150'/sec! Thats a proven fact.....ask Nolan Ryan! Is that extra velocity worth the 75,000 PSI we're getting and don't know it?

Hey...it's your gun and your hands-eyes. have a ball.

At 2,550 you can have a dead bear.....is it going to be deader at 2,700? "Bear" in mind (pun intended) that at 2,550 you're only 50 grains of bullet short of the .375 H&H factory loads!!!!!! That's 3,600 ft-lb of energy out of a 30-06 case! The next 150'/sec does gain you some energy....a little more than a .22 WRF round!

In the last week I ordered a Douglas .358 cal blank for a .35 whelen and a Shilen blank for a 9.3.....and like you, I'll be loading for the most I can get.....but when we find that point, please back off at least two (better three) grains!

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am asking for loads and velocities for the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved as a cartridge, that I would like to use in Alaska.

I will digress: I posted my chronographed velocity increases in my 7x57 AI as an example of my experience with an Ackley designed cartridge.

My velocities mirror most of the 7x57 AI velocities posted on this forum in the reloading pages, except for the 160 grain bullet. I get 2950 fps, but with a soft Speer bullet and a slightly faster powder. I probably would not get that velocity with a harder bullet.

I reiterate, I am getting these velocities in cases that I can reload 7-8 times with no apparent primer pocket expansion and no lug set back in a BRNO Mauser. If the shell casing is not failing, and I have no other indications of pressure problems, then what is the issue?

Nevertheless, what does this have to do with 35 Whelen Ackley Improved loads and velocities that you have worked up?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, here is the reason why it's brought up. When you push a 160gr out of a 7X57AI @ 2950FPS with a 24" barrel it makes roughly 80000 PSI chamber pressure to achieve that number! AI has nothing to do with those #'s You're just over loading the hell out of your cartridge. You're also saying since it hasn't blown up in your face it must be safe. Well it isn't. People have given you a figure of about 50FPS gain going with an AI over the regular version of the cartridge at the same pressure which IMO is a little optimistic.

Terry

quote:

I will digress: I posted my chronographed velocity increases in my 7x57 AI as an example of my experience with an Ackley designed cartridge.

While I won't sit and doubt anyones claims to velocity. I have used a stain guage on numerous AI versions. Loaded to the same pressure you will normal get a 1% velocity for a 4% capacity (assuming you can find a powder to use it) I achieved this time and again. A little more for the 7x57 case little less for the 243 and right on for the 06.

When I talk 25-50fps that is my actual experience and probably optimistic. One of the ones I played with was the 35Whelen. I won't quote exact velocity because each rifle is different. But with some bullets I could not even reach factory velocities. I don't normally load past 65,000 I have in the past attempted to duplicate of of the claims of 200+ gains from AI. Pressures were often way in excess of 70,000 to reach the claims.

here are some loads listed as max for the 35 Whelen AI


200 Hornady IMR IMR-4064 59.0 2,732

225 Sierra IMR IMR-4895 56.0 2,702

225 Sierra Hodgdon H-335 56.0 2,760

250 Speer IMR IMR-4895 56.0 2,635

250 Speer IMR IMR-4064 58.0 2,640

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
My whelen puts a 250 grain bullet through it at 2600, with RL-15. That is with a 24 inch tube. I would guess you could get another 50 or 75 FPS with with an AI. that does not seem like alot but a 50 FPS with a 250 grain bullet is a fair amount of energy.
if you run into a hungry brown bear I think a little extra muzzle energy might be a good thing...tj3006

2600 fps, with a 250 grn bullet is nothing to sneeze at! That's good bear medicine.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
here are some loads listed as max for the 35 Whelen AI


200 Hornady IMR IMR-4064 59.0 2,732

225 Sierra IMR IMR-4895 56.0 2,702

225 Sierra Hodgdon H-335 56.0 2,760

250 Speer IMR IMR-4895 56.0 2,635

250 Speer IMR IMR-4064 58.0 2,640

Not too much of a change compared to tj3006's standard whelen velocities. Also giving up a natural slick feeder for an abrupt shoulder angle, for a 45 fps gain is not kosher in my world. Unless of course, you need something different and are willing to pay for your 'smiths time to get it feeding properly.

quote:

Nevertheless, what does this have to do with 35 Whelen Ackley Improved loads and velocities that you have worked up?

Several gun writers, John Barsness for one and Paco Kelly for another have stated regrets for having their .35 Whelens changed to AI. The roughly 50 FPS gain was in their opinion not worth the trouble.
If you will E-mail me. I have Paco Kelly's article stored in my files and am willing to E-mail you a copy.
Paul B.

If could wave a magik wand to benefit all rifle shooters and erase one thing it would be the term "Ackly Improved"

The idea that we get something for nothing is long past the time to be exposed.

There's a guy I know selling the .260 Rem AI and telling folks what a dramatic cartridge it is!!!
IMO it's simple fraud!.....a "con game"

quote:

Several gun writers, John Barsness for one and Paco Kelly for another have stated regrets for having their .35 Whelens changed to AI. The roughly 50 FPS gain was in their opinion not worth the trouble.

I admit to reading and believing all the claims of huge increases and I even built my own wildcat case about 25yrs ago. Taking the 280 case with a .28" neck 40deg and .458 shoulder. Then I made the mistake of getting a chrono and a stain guage. Guess what there is no free lunch. While most of my rifles are still based on my case it is just to be different. Time and time again I just proved to myself for each 4% increase in powder I would get around 1% velocity at equal pressure. Never did find where the improved cases saved much triming either.

But I enjoy being different and they make great conversation around the campfire.

I owned a 35 Whelen AI, and sold it 15 years ago. It produced maybe 25 to 50 fps more velocity over the standard chambering in all the bullets I tested. I would never do a 35 W AI again.
For loads, use the manuals and start where loads for the standard chambering start. There just isn't enough improvement in case capacity to do otherwise.
I like lots of AI chamberings, but the 35 W AI isn't one of them. From my own personsal experience too, not just reading what someone else says about that round.
My next 35 Whedlen will have a standard chamber.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Thank you all for the information on 35 Whelen and the 35 Whelen AI.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I've chronographed my 35 W AI over an Oheler, will look up the data and send it along. I'm still working up loads for mine. Now that duck season is over I'll probably get interested again.

Got side tracked....Zorro was slicing and dicing Kathren Zeta Jones. Anyway last fall I was working with RL-15 60.5 grains got me 2846FPS (10 shot average) with Hornady # 3510 200 grain Spire points. Good luck with yours.

Dear pduryee:

Thanks for the loading data, if you have any more, please send it via PM if you so desire.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis