I tinkered with the 8x57s (323 bore)over the years, mostly with Brno mod 21 and 22s..Shot a few deer with them...Never found fault in them..but took my manlicher Brno to Africa on one occasion and was truly impressed with it as compared to a 30-06 or 338/06 or 35 Whelen....Lately Ive been using it more and more and having a lot of fun with it..Its a strong gun and I have developed some awesome loads for it...Its handy and kills impressively, thought about punching it out to a 8mm-06, but after much review see no need for that good option..My favorite load so far is the 160 gr. GS Customs or Barnes tipped at 2800 FPS and the 200 gr. bullet at 2600 give or take 50 fps is pretty fine for all that walks on this side of the big pond..I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a brown Bear or Alaskan moose with it, I used the 200 speer in Africa..

I'll be shooting elk with it sometime in July just south of town if they do an early depredation hunt as suspected for 2019 as opposed to Nov. NOt a bad idea as the elk will sure be fat and sassy on that green Alfalfa..I'll also be putting in for a bull tag in that same area, and man are the bulls huge in that area, and it gets better every year due to some good management..Were looking at a couple of 390 to 400 bulls there..I read where someon shot a 400 plus this year and two others got 390 plus, two with bow and one with rifle..

HAD TO CHANGE MY POST AS I WAS LOOKING AT MY LOAD DATA FOR MY 8X60..ITS NOW CORRECT, SORRY AND I HAVE ANOTHER POST TO ADD ON BELOW THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP..ANOTHER GOOD REASON NOT TO QUOTE POWDER CHARGES SOMETHING I SELDOM DO..

Good luck on your draws. Keep us posted.

I run my 8mm same as I run my 0-6.
a 150 at 2800 is all I need for deer hunting, and a 170 at about the same speed is enough for ELK.
I wish my 700 were more accurate.
I'd take it out more, but since my Bergara 0-6 shoots groups inside the 700's rings I'm more comfortable taking it.

I’m becoming a fan after having a new barrel in this chambering for all of 12 months.
I haven’t spent that long on load development but already have 3 170g SSTs going through the one hole at 2800fps. I’ve got a couple of boxes of 200g Accubonds but haven’t loaded them yet, and the SSTs have already accounted for 3 local deer with one DRT and the others only making 20 yard death runs.

Care to share the 2800fps 200g load?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:.My favorite load so far is the 160 gr. GS Customs or Barnes tipped at 3000 FPS give or take a 100 fps, and the 200 gr. bullet at 2800 to 2900 FPS is pretty fine for all that walks on this side of the big pond..I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a brown Bear or Alaskan moose with it, I used the 200 speer in Africa..
.

The best I ever got with 200 gr Speer Hotcors in the 8x57 was 2730 fps.

My 8mm-06 Ackley Improved barely hits 2900 fps with the same bullet.

Can I get some recommendations on load data. Picked up a BRNO M-21 in 8x57mm a couple weeks ago.

And Thanks!

Hello! Without wanting to upset or insult I'd just ask if that velocity with a 200 grain bullet in 8x57JS is wise? I had an 8x60S and was more than happy with just 2,450 fps. I'd ask if you've still got fillings left in your teeth at 2,800 to 2,900 fps! Is it wise? There must be serious pressure signs?

With ADI /Hodgdon powder 2208/Varget I’ve only gone up to 2600fps with a 196g. Norma and RWS CIP spec JS factory loads are only 2550fps.
Anyone contemplating cheaper factory loads such as PPU / Highland should be aware that they make a 8x57 Mauser (lawyer) load with a 196g at 2100 as well as a CIP spec IS load, guess which one is imported into Australasia?

And the one hole SST load is 50g of 2206H in Norma brass with 210 primers. Fairly sure it’s above book max so usual caveats apply. These are run through a 2017 manufactured CIP spec barrel fitted to a 1990s designed 2002 manufactured action.

Be very careful.......

.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_TX:
Can I get some recommendations on load data. Picked up a BRNO M-21 in 8x57mm a couple weeks ago.

And Thanks!

High energy powders such as RL-17 or Vv-N550 will best any of the standard powders (Varget) by nearly 100 FPS at similar chamber pressure.



In a modern post WW I M98 action I see no reason why the 8X57 can't be loaded to 30-06 pressure levels.

I took my first deer with a borrowed 8x57 German military Mauser, a "bring back" from the war. So, I'll always have a soft spot for the cartridge (as well as the rifle). Have been watching for several years for just the right 8x57 to come along to add to my arsenal. Whatever the '06 will do the 8x57 will also, which is hardly faint praise.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
just the right 8x57 to come along to add to my arsenal. Whatever the '06 will do the 8x57 will also, which is hardly faint praise.

Once bullets of 200 gr or more come into the picture, the 8X57 tends to have the edge over the '06 when loaded to similar chamber pressure. Very efficient case size for those weight bullets.

So while a phase of my life that my reloading room and I were in different states, I did have enough to pull the 198 Grain Portuguese MG ammo bullet and seat 200 Speers in their place. If you have used the excellent Portuguese MG ammo you know it is quite "hot" and really hits hard on hard targets. When you stuff a 200 Speer in there it hits hard on soft targets! Did not have a chrony but I have never hit a whitetail harder than that bullet hit a big Upstate NY buck dead in the chest frontally as he was running straight at me. The Whack was dramatic and the penetration was to the skin on the rear ham. Buck made the most awful roar, never heard one before or since, and hit the ground flat. Great round and would use it on any NA game without hesitation. Would probably load a tougher 200 grain bullet than the Speer for Moose, Big bear. I have also used the 185 Remington Core Loct on Whitetail with great results.

WHOOPS, MY BAD, GLAD I DONT QUOTE LOADS, I WAS QUOTING POWDER AND VELOCITY FROM MY 8X60, NOT MY 8X57.

I load my 8x57 with CFE 223 with a 200 gr. bullet 2687 fps.. h414 ALSO A GOOD FAST AND ACCURATE POWDER, OVER BOOK MAX BUT BOOK MAX FOR THE 7X57 AND 8X57 IS WAY BELOW WHAT A GOOD STRONG MAUSER, WINCHESTER OR REM WILL TAKE. THE REASON FOR THIS IS FRIVOLIS LAW SUITS DUE TO REM ROLLING BLOCKS AND EARLY WEAK MAUSERS..

I LOAD BOTH MY 8X57 AND 8X60 TO 30-06 AND 270 psi. THATS 55,000 TO 60,000 GIVE OR TAKE A LITTLE.

Ya'll are EXTREMELY bad influences on a wildcat addicted personality. I have enough on my plate with 5-6 projects going on, the weather mucking about and other minor problems when you started talking about 8 mm's...I have a nice 98 8x57 shooter that's been calling to me YELLING BIGGER, BIGGER, BIGGER!!!!...for several years, just never found that round toit to get things rolling.

I've spent a couple hours...AGAIN...working out the details and the 8 mm x 68 S fits ALL the parameters...rental reamer available, brass available and unbelievably cheap and dies available and at "normal" prices.

The rifle shoots well enough for hunting and is "pretty" with a nice blue job and stock so for about $125-150 bucks I can do it...That ALSO fits my cheapness. So then I checked rifle prices and there are some available WITH a Vortex scope? for less than $400 with rebates in 325 WSM which pushes the envelope over the other wildcats. I don't have any WSM's but have wanted to do a few WSM 'cats so this might be my chance to go "'cat'n again". AND keep my pretty as is....or?????? just do the 8 X 68 S and call it good, besides it's even bigger than the 325 WSM anyway.

Ya'll are giving me head aches again. I don't NEED any more shooters, can't hardly shoot all I have now.

Good Hunting and Merry whatever

Is it a true wildcat if DWM (or some other German manufacturer) might have done it first??
8x70 a simple matter of necking down a .404 case to 8mm....
the 8x68 is just a boring production round

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
8x73 S Miller and Greiss
DWM case number 599
= 404-8mm

Thanks

I was pretty sure DWM listed a 8mm on the .404.

Here’s a question who first did the 8mm /9,3x64 Brenneke

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

9x64 = Brenneke = 1927 = DWM # 567

no 8x64 on the 567 case exists

So Alvaro Mazon’s 8mm Mazon http://archive.li/V2s0r
http://www.municion.org/8/8x64Mazon.htm Might not have been commercialised and then forgotten long before?

Oh, Well, GBE...if I wanted to do a wildcat with all the attendant HIGH PRICED PIECES AND PARTS...I would have!

Boring is GOOD sometimes and I ALREADY have too many costly wildcats hiding in cupboards, behind doors and running "over the mantels". I WANT cheap and boring.

This was NOT my original premise for my "Pretty"...I just wanted something CHEAP AND FAST that would give me a bit of a velo kick...the "tired old, boring production round" fits that bill to a "T"...<$200 bucks for 200-250 fs velo increase is a VERY CHEAP and simple "wild" cat....wish some of my others were that "inexpensive"...Imight not even need to muck about with the extractor contour...only time will tell.

Dies are $75 plus shipping, twice the cost of 325 WSM, but the WSM brass is twice the price of the 8x68S unless I go with 270/300 WSM and expand them and the overall total difference in price between the two makes the $400 WSM rifle very attractive plus I get a WSM receiver to play with...

Besides the 8x68S and the Mazon are two peas in a pod as far as velo/energy/effectiveness is concerned, with COSTLY custom dies and reamer, ...≈85-87 gr H2O...and the 8x68S is fat enough to clean up the old chamber while NOT being TOO fat to cause trouble...PLUS I can download to 8x57 velos any time I want a "8x57". BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

If I really wanted to wildcat the 8x57 I would go with the Ruger case and gain an additional 10-12 gr H2O and all the attendant brass availability, and use my 375 Ruger sizer die and make a 8 mm neck sizer...but WHY...I already HAVE several riflers/caliber in this energy range, I'd be duplicating...with NO real gains in ballistics...again.

For a first or second rifle for a newbie developing his weaponry, OK, but NOT for me now.

Lots of good info from ALF and GBE...at least my 8x57 is early WWII made complete with Nazi markings but with some mixed parts...no collectors value.

Didn't mean to Hy-jack or go all nose on you.

Besides, as Ray A said, noting at all wrong with the 8x57 loaded right...HOW many animals did that guy in Africa kill in the olden days with the tiny, puny 7x57?????

Good Hunting and Merry something

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

8x66 Maximumn = Brenneke = 1939 = experimental
= 404 case with DWM number 598 = 8.2/404
9.3x66 maximum = Brenneke = 1939 also experimental = 9.3/404 no DWM #

There was also a 7/404 by Brenneke called the 7mm x 66 Maximum

Those would be some very interesting cartridges in today's world.
Thanks for the information Alf.

ALF - All good mate, I knew what you meant and the historical records are vastly appreciated
I’d wager someone else necked down the 9,3x64 before Mazon named his. I’m also a bit surprised no one has put a name stamp to the 8mm/.375 Ruger... yet

I'm guessing...We have the 8 mm RM and 325 WSM that aren't all that popular but are hanging on...then we have the commercial 338's that are close in capacity/ballistics and are easier to obtain and wildcat and basically because the Ruger case is relatively new and all the others have been around for a while to be mucked with. I think there are few cases that haven't been messed with somehow/someway.

I have NO reason to suspect that SOMEONE hasn't already thought of the M98 8x57 and the Ruger case and put two and to together. Maybe someone already has one in the planning or building stage, but you would have to be in love with the 8 mm and few seem to be here in the states. Europe has it's love affair with the 8 mm but wildcatting there can be a REAL chore.

If I weren't sooooo cheep......A reamer runs $175 plus shipping so for my economics that would put buying a 325 WSM rifle WAY out in front and WHY would I even consider a 375 Ruger 8 mm wildcat with it's smaller/lighter bullets. If I'm looking for more performance the original 375 R would be a no brainer, or a 338 RM or any of the other 338 cartridges...OR...

Then again the 8x68S is a commercial cartridge with commercial ammo available with all the accouterments available and STONE simple to do an M98 8x57 conversion and gain real advantages...ALSO a no brainer.

Then AGAIN...the 8x57 is no slouch so why even mess with it...because we 'catters and magnum-itised nummys can't keep our hands off of things.

But wildcatters are a different breed of dog and think much differently than the unwashed masses...so maybe we will thank someone someday for doing an 8 mm/375 R and giving a cool name. and putting it in Ammoguide for all to see.

Good Hunting and Merry...yeah that too

I have a 8x57 Brno mod 22F, early large ring, and a mod 21 in 8x60...

I think if I were limited for some unknown reason to one 8mm I woul opt for the 8mm/06, and probably the Ackley IMP..Seems like a great caliber, but I will not be rechambering either of mine..and only intend to keep the 8x57. Its a nice caliber as is in a good action..All one is buying by rechambering to a larger caliber is more recoil...I have other calibers for that.

You're right there, Ray...mucking about with something that doesn't need messing with seems like the wrong thing to do whether you have larger cals to use or no...one reason I've just left my 8x57 alone so far and keep waffling...just can't keep my hands off things. Mine shoots very with with both 150 gr and 185 gr bullets. One side of my brain says "LEAVE IT ALONE" the other side says "it's too small MAKE IT BIGGER".

The 8 mm's are just about exactly midway between the 30 cal and the 338 cal so the 8mm-06 is and has been the obvious choice for HOW many years????...I just have magnum-itis crawling all over me and bigger is BETTER...maybe... ...besides my 338-06 usually gets the nod for most larger game unless I feel all hairy-legged, then I go for the really BIG cannons...especially when the yellow bellies and prairie dogs are BIG AND FAT...4 balers and larger. Hahahahahaha.

Good Hunting and Merry/Happy

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have a 8x57 Brno mod 22F, early large ring, and a mod 21 in 8x60...

I think if I were limited for some unknown reason to one 8mm I woul opt for the 8mm/06, and probably the Ackley IMP..Seems like a great caliber, but I will not be rechambering either of mine..and only intend to keep the 8x57. Its a nice caliber as is in a good action..All one is buying by rechambering to a larger caliber is more recoil...I have other calibers for that.

8X57IS 200 Gr Speer Hotcor 2700 fps...........8mm-06 Ackley Improved 200 gr Speer Hotcor 2900 fps

The 8mm-06 A.I. equals the 8X67IS Mv at 100 yds.

Anything the 8X57IS can do, the 8mm-06 A.I. can do 100 yds farther downrange.

And the 8 x 68 S/325 WSM can do it a bit farther and the 8mmRM even farther and toss in the REALLY BIG wildcats, and, and, and...incrementalism is rampant when comparing apples and road apples... WHAT does that prove that isn't already known???...HIGHER volume cases produce "BETTER" ballistics.

Good Hunting and Merry all that

Talking .323 wildcat, what about the 323 Hollis, aka 308 Norma necked up to accept.323 bullets?

Why do I like the 8x57 so much, maybe to some extent because I also like the 7x57..but in reality the beauty of of both is decent bullet weight and decent velocity and the LACK OF RECOIL..I don't need more gun for deer and my carbines are as good as the .308, and that's as good as a 30-06 and my two Mausers do have a LACK OF RECOIL..Im not sure where the word Improved came from, because it doesn't fit in with my program and the 8x57 or 7x57..they cannot be improved! they can only be made to shoot faster with more blast and recoil, that's not improved..

My latest load is the 160 gr. Barnes TTSX BT (tipped). its light, but its long for SD, high velocity at 2800 FPS plus with CFE223 powder, and all the penetration one could ask for..It makes the 8x57 into another hoss!

If I need more I can go up to several calibers such as my 338 or 375. I sold off all my big bores as DG is in my past..and most of my hunting is for the plate with several deer and cow elk..but if I want to go big these days the 30-06 suits me fine..

I did manage to dig out a box of 8X57 Mauser I loaded a few years back . I was shooting a few hogs and these put some vents into more than one .

8X57
H380 52 Grains
Remington PSPCL 185 Grain bullet
CCI LR Primer
Winchester Brass

As there is not a lot of 185 Grain data floating around for the 8X57JS

This is out of a K98 late war Mauser .
I never had any issues with pressure .
Sure liked smacking pigs with it .

I had 500 185 gr. Rem Corelokts at one time, but Im down to about 35, so I'll probably just shoot them up on targets..They are a good bullet, but I,m sold on the Barnes TTSX BT at 2800 FPS with CFE223 as my all around hunting load, its got it all for deer and elk...I really like the 8x57 and its as good as the 338-06 or 35 Whelen I suspect, at least from a practical stand point for hunting deer or elk..It will sure hold its own and a little more with the 30-06 and that's not light praise..

Those that are paranoid loading the 8x57 need to understand the loading books suffer the same paranoia due to frivoulous law suits, and that is soley due to the cheap Mauser mod 95s and 96, Rem Rolling blocks etc..A good 98 Mauser, Win. mod. 70, or Rem 700 for instances, will handle my higher pressures as well...I have loaded the 8x57 an 7x57 to 60,000 PSI or thereabouts with no problem in a good Mauser Brno mod. 21 or 22 as they have a long throat and you can seat bullets way out, and use H414 powder, same as a .270 or 30-06 btw, its been my use of the Brno 7x57 for 60 plus years. The loading books for the most part are loading at 40,000 PSI or less. the time to beware is when you try to load a junk rifle in which case if you own one, I suggest WW or Rem factory ammo.

I have no desire to IMP my 8x57 or 8x60 they suit me as is, If I want more I'll drag out my 338, or 375 (oops not the .375, just sold it)..make that "or 9.3x62" and my 8x60 Brno is on the market as we speak..

It sure is nice to enjoy a cartridge for what it is ,instead of expecting it to be something its not . The 8X57 really does fall into quite the utilitarian chambering . Just might need to blow the dust out of mine in the next week or two .
Hope you get to cull an elk or two with yours in the up coming year . Always a pleasure kicking thoughts on firearms around .

Being the kind who likes the original, I lay in ambush for a 98 Mauser with a .318 groove diameter. (Of course, an "original" would be one of Haenel's exquisite sporters built on an '88) Mostly because I'm just weird that way. Satisfied that lust with an immediately post WWI Strove, Mauser in excellent condition. I load it with a 200 gr. cast bullet at around 1800 fps. I wouldn't be afraid to take on elk and moose with that load and bullet and it certainly does anything I'm likely to need done locally.

A 200 gr. cast or cup and core bullet at 1800 will certainly kill an elk, but one would have to be mighty careful or he would wear out the soles in his shoes tracking a big ole bull!

This is my favorite round by far. I have about 100 or the corelocs left and will hold on to those but killed quite a few head with it, a great bullet for the 8, I'm running the 180 grain nosler bt in mine right now at 2600 and that is plenty. I'm sure I could run in up to the next accuracy node probably around 2700- 2800 fps but for my needs my load went into about.5, and that is all you can ask for in a deer rifle. My mauser has a husky barrel on it and it has been great. I shoot the original out. Viva the 8x57!

quote:

Originally posted by Mauser222:
This is my favorite round by far. I have about 100 or the corelocs left and will hold on to those but killed quite a few head with it, a great bullet for the 8, I'm running the 180 grain nosler bt in mine right now at 2600 and that is plenty. I'm sure I could run in up to the next accuracy node probably around 2700- 2800 fps but for my needs my load went into about.5, and that is all you can ask for in a deer rifle. My mauser has a husky barrel on it and it has been great. I shoot the original out. Viva the 8x57!

I have about 5 boxes of 180 Nosler Bal. tips and a 100 loaded rounds at 2700 plus a tad, that I shoot a lot..shot some coyotes with them and that tells me they may be a tad soft but good enough for Deer Id bet..For elk or deer Ill be using the 200 gr. Nosler accubond at 2730 FPS, I think the Accubonds are about as good as any bullet Ive used in most calibers. but Ive been shooting the 160 gr. Barnes TTSX BT at 2800 FPS and Im loving that accurate bullet, and it just has to be super elk medicine..