I 've tried to get this discussed in a couple of places but no joy. Here goes, I was told by a suppose expert" I teach this stuff" that the before mention 338s did not maintain enough energy pasted 1000 yards to open properly to kill an elk. I would like to know what the people that hunt elk have to say about that. I have no experience in this area but those statement just don't sound right to me. I'll be talking to the 2 bullet manf. mention ( berger and nosler) tomorrow.

1000 yards.....oh please

If you shoot at an unwounded game animal at 1000 yards you are irresponsible, and i would ask you to take up a new hobby...tj3006

Yes, the whole idea is nuts but, just for the hell of it, I'll go through the motions.

Elmer Keith used to find .30 calibre bullets at 1000-yard targets that did not even have the energy left to penetrate the dirt. They're not directly analogous with the 338 Lapua but I think it offers a clue.

Our sambar are next down from wapiti in deer size and one of our most experienced hunters opines that the 338 WM really only has enough power for reliable kills on them out to about 300 yards.

The Lapua might give you another hundred yards or so but not more than three times the distance.

Elk aren't exceedingly tough, or thick skinned....


I've seen a moose dropped at 800 yds with a 338 WM. Though I wouldn't have taken the shot, it performed just fine.



Its more a question of, can the shooter place the bullet in the vitals at 1,000 yds, not will the bullet kill at that range.

Even at 1K, a 338 WM, much less the Edge, Lapua, and the like, are delivering more energy that a bow does at 20 yds. And I don't think anyone is going to argue that a bow isn't capable of delivering a killing strike at 20 yds.


Now, the ethics of taking such a shot, are a whole different subject all together.

i'm not a long range shooter but will use my ballistic program to partially answer your question.

Presuming a minimum 1600fps impact velocity to commence nose obliteration - I've computed the following:

Using a Barnes .338 280gr LRX BT (.667 BC) bullet requires a MV (lowest deviation) of 2810+fps to meet a minimum 1600fps impact velocity at 1000yds. At this MV, assuming only a single 10mph 90-degree side wind at 500yds, you'll face a -288.11" bullet drop and a 32.85" bullet drift.

Of course you'll want to raise the MV at least 2900fps to assure some usable nose obliteration at impact which will also slightly reduce bullet drop and wind drift. Guess that would be a + + +.

I used the specified Barnes bullet solely due to it having a higher BC than the listed 300gr Berger hunting bullet in .338 caliber.

If you have the proven long range shooting experience to consistently and quickly drop a magazine's worth of bullets into an elks kill zone at 1000yds who am I to say it's unethical. I'll leave my comments at that.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
i'm not a long range shooter but will use my ballistic program to partially answer your question.

Presuming a minimum 1600fps impact velocity to commence nose obliteration - I've computed the following:

Using a Barnes .338 280gr LRX BT (.667 BC) bullet requires a MV (lowest deviation) of 2810+fps to meet a minimum 1600fps impact velocity at 1000yds. At this MV, assuming only a single 10mph 90-degree side wind at 500yds, you'll face a -288.11" bullet drop and a 32.85" bullet drift.

Of course you'll want to raise the MV at least 2900fps to assure some usable nose obliteration at impact which will also slightly reduce bullet drop and wind drift. Guess that would be a + + +.

I used the specified Barnes bullet solely due to it having a higher BC than the listed 300gr Berger hunting bullet in .338 caliber.

If you have the proven long range shooting experience to consistently and quickly drop a magazine's worth of bullets into an elks kill zone at 1000yds who am I to say it's unethical. I'll leave my comments at that.

Not sure what you looked at for BC but the Berger 300 grain hybrid has a much higher BC than does the Barnes.

Berger BC The revised BC’s for the 300 grain .338 Hybrid are:
G7 BC = 0.419
G1 BC = 0.818

THE Barnes G-1 BC that you quoted is much lower than the Berger at .818

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Yes, the whole idea is nuts but, just for the hell of it, I'll go through the motions.

Elmer Keith used to find .30 calibre bullets at 1000-yard targets that did not even have the energy left to penetrate the dirt. They're not directly analogous with the 338 Lapua but I think it offers a clue.

Our sambar are next down from wapiti in deer size and one of our most experienced hunters opines that the 338 WM really only has enough power for reliable kills on them out to about 300 yards.

The Lapua might give you another hundred yards or so but not more than three times the distance.

I have both the 338 Win Mag and the 338 Edge, the Win Mag takes sambar cleanly to 800yrds with a 225gr Accubond and the Edge will take them cleanly with 250gr Accubonds beyond 1000yrds. Elk, moose and sambar are not bullet proof, yes long range shooting of game animals is a touchy subject, but if you're set up correctly, don't take risky unsure shots, it is doable and enjoyable. I would not take a shot of this length unless I had an absolute rock solid rest, which I do in the form of a solid bench with attached seat, and new I could make the shot in regard to wind, angle etc.
I have to say that I am set up with my bench on my verandah of the house, I can shoot beyond 2000yrds from this spot, I don't, the game are free ranging and harvested for meat purposely mainly with the odd trophy stag also taken. I shoot F-Class with the same rifles and get lots of practise, I do not recommend this type of shooting game animals to everyone, you need to understand trajectory, wind drift, altitude and weather changes throughout the day to be good at this. You also need to know when not to shoot.
Any of the 338's are super sonic at 1000yrds, so thaey WILL do the job if the correct bullet and shot placement is chosen.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
1000 yards.....oh please

Ted I know several that have taken elk with a big 338 and the 300 grain SMK a lot farther than 1000 yards.

Just saying

My .338 Edge sends 300 grain SMKs to 1000 yards with 1800 fps and over a ton of energy left. Will bullets expand? You better believe it.

There's higher BC and softer bullets out there too.

Dogleg that was the question. Not talking about should the shot be taken that is up to the shooter. Getting ready to call manufactors now to see what they have to say.

After talking with and checking the manf. sites it seems that the quotes were not accurate about some min recommendation for opening. Which is what this post was about. The original post was what cali for elk up to or past 1000 yards. I mention the 338s when a self proclaimed expert started ranting about his knowledge. I will admit that I don't own a 338. I also only have the ability to shoot out to about 600 due to where I live. I just can't stand for people to spout off with out know or aleast researching what they are saying. Nosler and berger have bullets in the cali that will open with a min of 1300 fps. My program show with a mv around 3000fps you will still have a min of 1500 fps these were calculated with factory loads and we all know that can be improved upon. So I guess the answer is yes they will open up enough to do the job. Should the shot be taken is another debate and can't be solved with science it is subjective and raging on.

jpw475,

Simply my bad. I didn't notice that the .419 BC listed for the .338 300gr Berger Elite Hunter was G7 rather than G1. Had I noticed, I'd have checked the Berger website (as I just did) to identify the G1 BC listing for an apples to apples comparison with the Barnes. The Berger would have been selected with relating data supplied.

Again, simply my bad.

Comparing BCs from different manufacturers is almost totally meaningless