I am looking to buy a 7mm-08 rifle for my son and I to enjoy. He is 7, and I have read that this gun can be handled fine by young folks.



What I am looking for is recommendations by those who have one. Thus far, I think the Ruger M77 compact, Remington Model 7 youth, and Savage Model 11FYXP3 Youth are the top three contenders, but then I read about a brand I have never heard of before, Howa. It is a model 1500, and is spoda be good out of the box: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=26442765



Anyone got any "poop" on the Howa? Or what recommendations for/against on the other three models can you offer?



Thanks in advance, I love these newly-discovered forums!



F6

IMHO, a 7-08 (I have three) in a light rifle can produce some stout recoil, especially with 140+ gr loads. You can't push that weight bullet out at 2800fps, and not expect recoil.
Loading some of the fine 120gr pills to a modest velocity will certainly help, and still dispatch whitetails with ease.
The 7-08 is a great, veratile round, just may be tough on a youngster unless used cautiously.
My Howa 7-08 has been the only one that needed 145-150 gr bullets to be accurate, but that could have been a fluke.
Most rifles will shoot the various 120-130gr quite well, and that's fine with me!

You may want to also concider the Browning Micro-Hunter. I have the Micro Medallion in 7-08 and it's my favorite deer rifle. I'm not sure what the new Mk-II's are like but if their bolts are as slick and accuracy as great as mine you'll love it. You will need the trigger tuned, fact of life. To extend the stock to fit me I've been using a slip on shot gun recoil pad. It extends the pull an inch and maybe a fraction more but it made the pull length perfect for me. There has been occasion where I had a lot of layers on and it was actually to long with it on. I may someday have a custome stock built for it with the proper pull length for me. I've been using it with the slip on recoil pad for 14 or 15 years now so there's no great urgency.

I've taken several young folks shooting over that past 5 to 6 years and I have found that even my lightest 7-08 loads were to much for them to bare. I've found that a light load in .257R is OK with most over 12 years old. From 6 to 10 the .22LR has been very comfortable for them. Around the age of 10 the .225Win has worked well. Although, I haven't tried any of the Blue Dot loads that have been discussed previously, I plan to shortly in hopes that my daughter,10 year old, can start practicing with it now. She couldn't cope with the .257R recoil with 100gr bullets and 38gr of W760, which to me feels like the .225W. She took one shot early this past summer and I'm waiting for her to forget it.
My daughters .257R is a Ruger 77RL. The problem with it is that it's stock is to long. If I could find another stock for it in very good condition, for a reasonble price, I'd cut this one down to fit her.

Oh, by the way, I bought her a .22LR Cricket when she turned 6 and she's now out grown it. I still like shooting though, it's a very accurate little single shot. Maybe she'll pass it down to her children. I hope.

Good luck with which ever you select and try not to inadvertantly induce a flinch in him.

Savage would be my choice. If you are a handloader, you can use cast bullet data with 120 grain bullets around 2000 fps. I enjoy them for short range shooting and offhand practice with lead bullets. Keep the youth stock, and buy a take-off from ebay for $20 for when he grows into it. Same option exists with lighter calibers, like 243, but you are set on a 7-08. Lots of spare parts around at good prices for the Savage line.

In my mind, the question begs to be asked: Why are you buying a 7 year old kid a center fire rifle??? Of any calibre?
To my way of thinking, with a 7 year old kid, a single shot .22, a hand full of bullets and some tin cans on a fence post are the way to teach him gun handling, gun safety and SHOOTING IS FUN. And shooting isn't fun if you can't hit. And you can't hit if you dread the fact that the rifle is gonna knock the snot out of you when you pull the trigger.
I agree with the various post about buying a full sized rifle and also buying a cadet stock for it until the kid grows into it but IMO that's still a few years down the road.

Beeman, good question, let me explain:



1) I said it was for him, because it will EVENTUALLY be for him. Imagine yourself as my wife, and "hear" the difference between, "Honey, I want to buy our son a rifle and teach him gun safety," and, "Honey, I want a new gun that I can shoot now, and he can one day shoot, too." Which is more likely to cause a new addition to the family?



2) I do have .22s, and that will be the primary learning tool for him (and my daughter behind him), but I still want him to be exposed to larger calibers, and hope that someday (next year, perhaps, with some 100 gr light loads) he will be able to give it a try. In the meantime, I can spend some time developing some accurate loads both for him, and for me.



Mostly, I wanted opinions on the different brands, as yes, I have pretty much decided that the 7-08 is the caliber I desire (only slightly more recoil than the .243, yet it has quite a bit more punch. It is also not far from the 7mm/.300 mag when they are loaded lighter, so it is pretty versatile, from what I have read on owners who have written about it). I have also pretty much decided in the last 24 hours that Savage will be the brand, due to some attributes I find desirable: for one, I can buy another barrel for around $90, and have the option of shooting a 7mm-08 or a .308 out of the same gun. For another, Savage seems to have quite a reputation for "out of the box accuracy". And, as mentioned, parts/accessories are plentiful.



So now I have the dilemna of deciding which MODEL I want, and there appears to be quite a slew of options there, and I am off to do more research. Any comments from Savage owners would be most appreciated, both good and bad.

Quote:

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In my mind, the question begs to be asked: Why are you buying a 7 year old kid a center fire rifle??? Of any calibre?

To my way of thinking, with a 7 year old kid, a single shot .22, a hand full of bullets and some tin cans on a fence post are the way to teach him gun handling, gun safety and SHOOTING IS FUN.

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I recently purchased a Howa Lightning 1500 ostensibly for my sons to shoot. (The younger ones being 13 and 15 respectively.) I considered the 7mm-08, the .270 win (economies of scale, since I shoot a .270WSM, uses same bullets, powders and primers) and .270WSM. I borrowed a friends 7mm-08 Model 70 lightweight carbine and another friends .270 Win Savage Weather Warrior complete with factory muzzle break for my older boy to try out at the range. He liked my Super Shadow in .270WSM the best due to the Hodgdon youth loads with 100 gr bullets and the nice decelerator recoil pad, he didn't really care for the 7mm-08 even with similar 120 gr youth loads. The hard plastic butt plate and full bore handloads also made him decline the .270 Win. So what caliber did I buy the 1500 Lightning in? 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. With light 120 gr handloads with Nosler Ballistic Tips it is a mild but effective deer load that kicks noticeable less than a 7mm-08. Even with 140 gr factory ammo, it is very mild. I would encourage you to look past the lightweight youth rifles with their 20 inch skinny barrels and opt for a full sized rifle, even if you need to cut down the stock to fit your son. The standard length standard countour barrels are more pleasant to shoot, and I can't say enough about the mild nature of the 6.5x55 cartridge. Good Luck.

P.S. The Howa 1500 Lightning in 6.5x55 is available on special order at your neighborhood walmart, assuming you live in the USA at a very attractive price. Check it out here

Edit: There is nothing wrong with a Savage either. Suggest you look at the Accutrigger models. I would also suggest staying away from the 20 inch barrel models. I still would not recommend the 7mm-08 for a new shooter, especially in a carbine length barrel. A .243 or maybe even a 25-06 with a 24" barrel would be a better option, IMO.

2ndTimer,

Good points, I had sort of come to the same conclusion about the barrels, though I don't have the opportunity to borrow and shoot. The longer the barrel, the better the accuracy. So the gun weighs 2-3 pounds more, he will just have to grow a bit before it is comfortable is all. But a thicker, longer barrel will most likely make for a sweeter shooting iron, as well as one that can be fired longer at one sitting (targets).

I live in AL, so I will look at the Howa. Are you happy with the accuracy out of the box? It looks much like a Savage, from the link you included. Still lingering in the back of my mind is the ease of converting the Savage from 7mm to .308, if I ever decide to do it, without having to buy another gun. But I will look at the Howa some more.

Thanks for all the input, you guys are great!

F6

P.S. I was told by a professional reloader to go with 100gr loads for my son, so I bought some of them for lighter shooting, and some 140gr for a heavier feel. Can't wait to try them out!

Ah Ha, the old "honey, I'm doing it for the chirrun" ploy. Very good, I've used that myself.
You might want to also consider a .260 (or 6.5 swede). So far this year I've killed deer using a .300savage, a 7-08, and a couple using a .260Rem. I am a long time fan of the 7-08 (that certainly is an excellent choice) but I have been very impressed with the effectiveness of the .260.

Here is my take on the question of Howa vs. Savage.
I won a Howa 1500, in 300 WSM, and I purchased a
Savage 16 Weather Warrior series, in .22-250 Win.
I also have a Savage Striker model 510, in .308 Win.,
so I have two Savage firearms, and one Howa, in my
experience, to use for this comparision. Both are
fine firearms, accuracy wise, but if there is a slight
edge, I'd have to give it to Savage, but I want to
stress SLIGHT. Positives of the Howa are a good fit
and finish, a smooth bolt, and a trigger that can be
adjusted down to something a target shooter would envy.
About the only negative I see with the Howa, is the
bolt doesn't lock, when the gun is on safe. So if
rough country climbing, or brush crawling, are in
the realm of possibility, this may be an issue.
Positives for the Savage are the Accu-tigger, and a
3 position safety(locks bolt, and allows for safe
unloading). Negatives for the Savage Weather Warrior
series particularly, is the low budget synthetic stock(a
lot of flex in the forearm), and for Savage in general,
is a less refined finish, and the Accu-trigger...Yes,
I see the Accu-Trigger as both a positive, and a negative.
In the Sporter Series, the Accu-Trigger is only adjustable
down to like 3 lbs, or something like that. I like my
triggers down around 1 to 2 lbs, so I am disappointed
in my Accu-Trigger. I believe the Varmint Series is
adjustable to a much lower force. The positive of the
Accu-Trigger is someone with literally no mechanical
ability, can adjust it, and it does help fix the "Nasty
Factory Trigger" problem with most lawyer proof factory
trigger settings. As for sloppy, rough, bolt action,
neither of my Savages have that problem. Both are
relatively tight, and with a few applications of Moly
grease, I have both of them running as smooth as "Budda".

The differences in these two brands, comes down to
a few small issue features, and maybe a bit of
aesthetics. I enjoy both my Howa, and my Savages,
and if forced to pick one, I'd have to consider what
I planned on doing with the rifle. If I wanted to
do some aftermarket changes to the gun, then I would
lean toward Savage. If I wanted lower cost gun, yet
still get a nicer look, and finish, and I didn't care
about an unlocked bolt, I'd lean toward the Howa.
I bought my Savage Weather Warrior as a truck gun,
and a rough duty varmint walk and stalk gun...It does
that well. When I won my Howa, I said, "Yes, now I
have an Elk gun", and it fits that well. In the poster's
case, given that there is some talk of after market
work, I'd probably go with the Savage.

Squeeze

Did not read all of the posts, so sorry if this is redundant, but the answer is easy.

You cannot go wrong with the 7-08 Rem700youth. The 7-08 is a perfect all around cartridge. You can buy an adult synthetic stock for $40 tops new on the net for when he gets older. The combination of quality(I believe it to be better than than Savage)/accuracy(trigger easily adjustable down to 2#'s)/price/resale is unbeatable. My Rem700ADL shoots hunting bullets 1/2MOA. I use it for Silhouette Hunting Rifle competitions and Deer/Antelope hunting.

Deke.

While I love the Ruger and the Savage offering, I'd have to go with the Howa Hands down. I have never owned a Howa but have bought them as presents for nephews and I have never been anything but IMPRESSED + with their accuracy!

Brought up Legacy Sports site on the web just now and they also must have been reading this site... Some one was asking for a Stainless 6.5 x 55. Well they have added several when other manufacturers, like Ruger and CZ are dropping that caliber! to make room for other calibers like the short mag craze right now.

Legacy sure listens to hunters and shooters, in their recommendations to HOWA on what they need made.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I know this ins't the gun I asked about in the beginning, but it seems a good price, and normally Weatherby's command a much higher price; so is there something wrong with this gun? I "hear" it will go for around $425 at auction end:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=26647365

WalMart sells that same rifle for ~$380. I don't see it on their site in 7mm-08 though.

-Dan

Steyr pro hunter

I bought my nephew a Remington model 700 SPS youth in 7mm-08 and he loves that gun it has a 20 inch barrel and spacers by the recoil pad to adjust the length of pull

Seven years is a long time to consider an answer to a post!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
Seven years is a long time to consider an answer to a post!!!

That lad is 14 or getting close! any history here? roger

Another vote for the Remington 700 sps youth. IN 09 My then 10 yr old shot a wildebeest, ostrich and impala in SA with this rifle using federal 140gr nosler partitions. In 2010 he used it in Zambia on a nice steinbuck. He is not a big kid but he handled the recoil just fine.

BLR.

I would consider the model 70 compact now that Winchester is making them again. I have had two of them. One a 308 and one a 7mm-08. You can add a recoil pad when the boy grows up and he can use it all his life.

+1 on the earlier advise. Buy him a gun that he will charish for life rather than one he will grow out of. Growing into a gun gives him something to look forward to every year rather than watching him grow out of it which is much more disapointing.

I think the 7mm-08 is a little too stout for the average 7 year old. If you handload light and slow loads you would be alright for sure. I think the 243win would be better to start out with, and is common in youth rifles. I think the ideal youth rounds for dear are the 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts. Even these can be a bit much for a 7 year old. Just MHO.

A friend of mine has a couple of custom 7TCU rifles. He shoots 140 grain soft jacket bullets. This might be a truly awesome youth round.

i started my son with a 7-08 in a rem model 7 youth. worked on it a bit and thereafter it was extremely accurate with factory ammo in 120 gr. i liked it so much i bought a browning a bolt with the boss system. took a little patience to dial in the boss system but once we found the sweet spot it was like night and day. this cal did my son well for years. started about 8 or 9 years old. recoil is negligible if u add a brake. son now educated AND employed (thank you lord) and when we go to the range to plink he consistently grabs that browning a bolt. all round fun gun and cal.

Cant go wrong with a Ruger,Win Featherweight or Rem model 7.etc.I already have 2 Rugers so I would go with the Featherweight just for something different plus all the reviews on the new ones have been very positive.

This year, buy him a stiller predator short action and let him shoot the .22s...
Next year buy him a jewell trigger and let him shoot the .22s....
The following year buy him a McMillan HTG stock, magazine box and bottom metal; and let him shoot the .22s...
Then when he's ready, buy him a barrel and he'll have a rifle that he'll pass on to his own kids!
I would introduce him to centrefires with a .223 and then later get something like a 7mm-08. He'll thank you for that I the long run!