I have a Sako 75 '06 length action, and have been thinking of a caliber with more diameter than my beloved 270's and 308's, and was wanting to stay in an '06 length action. Smiths have told me they don't like opening up the bolt to accomodate mag cartridges, or I would go with one of the Dakota's , as I like their cartridge design, alas, the smiths who have made me Dakota capable SAKO's have always insisted on using the V ('magnum length') action.

I am interested in opinions on bullet weights and velocities, I would intend on light for caliber bullets, maybe TSX's or such, as my intent would be for a 400 yard max rig, on game up to elk size. Just tinkering around with some theories, being 'de-employed' lately, I am looking at reworking existing gear in stead of buying new rigs

I happen to shoot my own Wildcat a 340PDK it is an improved shoulder forward case. I replaced my 338wmag with it. A 338-06 will do just about anything the 338 or my wildcat will do. For what you are talking about I'd look at the 200accubond. 24" barrel with something like 4064. rl15. Some mention good luck with compressed loads of slower powders.

The 210 Grain TTSX bullet would fill the bill perfectly and hammer ELK to your stated 400 yards range

I would let the bullet make my choice. Under 250 gr, I like the 338-06. For 250 gr and above, the 9.3x62 appeals.

Good help guys--Thanks--sounds like I might just start this project, I do plan on under 250 Gr pills.....

I love my 338-06. With the 210grNP @ 2750fps or a 210grTTSX, it will certainly hammer anything in NA & most of Africa. I've taken 30# Duiker to elk & zebra w/ mine & the 210grNP. I think 400yds is stretching expansion limtis for most bullets in the 338-06 though, but it is a heck of cartridge. Easy conversion for you, just rebarrel & go. Headstamped cases are available or make them from 06 or 35whelen cases. Recoil in a 8#+ rilfe is very manageable & you get 5rds in the mag. It's a 338winmag w/ 75yds less range.

338-06 35 Whelen or 9.3x62! They're all very similar, so its a matter of bullet choice. They all have overlapping bullet weights available.

Word to the wise, don't get a custom made rifle in a dakota case, if you want a dakota get it from dakota. Their chamber specs differ from saami and custom chambers tend to have a lot of case stretch that you'll deal with each time you resise the case, as the dies match saami specs

I don't own one, but I have a FN action that might become one!

The 338-06 is a great round that also appeals to me, but I would also consider:

35 Whelen
9.3x62
9.3x66 (aka Sako 370 magnum)

The 338-06 is a bang up, do everything, best bang for the buck cartridge. The only thing that would give me any caution is asking it to do elk out to 400 yds. Keep it to 250yds and I would jump up and down all over it. 400 yds is really the providence of the 338 win mag.

John

There is no doubt that a 338-06 will give up around 200fps to a 338Wmag. I've seen that in personal experience as well as velocity quotes from various online sources both handload, factory and custom available ammo.

However, 200fps less velocity at the barrel using something like the 200Accubond, 210ttsx works out to only 4" more drop at 400yds using a maximum point blank zero for the same size kill zone. Max PBR is 20 yds further for the 338.

To me allowing 4" more drop at 400 is not a big issue.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
There is no doubt that a 338-06 will give up around 200fps to a 338Wmag. I've seen that in personal experience as well as velocity quotes from various online sources both handload, factory and custom available ammo.

However, 200fps less velocity at the barrel using something like the 200Accubond, 210ttsx works out to only 4" more drop at 400yds using a maximum point blank zero for the same size kill zone. Max PBR is 20 yds further for the 338.

To me allowing 4" more drop at 400 is not a big issue.

I don't worry about bullet drop as much as bullet performance. Most 338 bullets are designed for 338wm impact vel. They may not open well past 350yds or so at 338-06 vel. At least that is my exp. The 210grNP does well to 350yds, at least that is as far as I have pushed it & the bullet still showed signs of some expansion (only ever recovered one).

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
The 338-06 is a bang up, do everything, best bang for the buck cartridge. The only thing that would give me any caution is asking it to do elk out to 400 yds. Keep it to 250yds and I would jump up and down all over it. 400 yds is really the providence of the 338 win mag.

John

I would go 338 Win Mag if wanting to shoot the 210 TTSX to 400 yards.

The 338-06 is good to 300 yards with that bullet.

quote:

I don't worry about bullet drop as much as bullet performance

I agree. Nosler list minimum velocity for both the PT and accubond as 1800fps. Basically the velocity you still have at 400 yds from a 338-06. No doubt the 338 would hit a touch harder. My vote is the Elk wouldn't know the difference.

If someone wants to use a 338-06 they have my support. If they would rather use a 338Wmag I support that as well. I just feel either will work to that range. Past that then I would change my vote. Or based on some I've hunted with is that a measured 400 or a questimated 400. Seems they always manage to add about 75-100 yds to their shot.

But don't mind me that is why I built a wildcat with about 11% more capacity so I could push a 200 at 3000+ and no longer need my 338Wmag.

Built my 338-06 Ackley Iproved off a new Sako m75 Greywolf "IV" action. The rifle was a new 25-06 and replaced with new barrel. LOVE IT!!

Shoots 225gr Accubonds and TTSX's superbly. Going to try the 210 Swift Scirroco's just for kicks.

Also thinking of a 330 Dakota for another projectrifle based on a Sako m75 rifle. Thought the "IV" action should work.

I think the .338-06 is a very good round.
I also think a 400 yard shot is an awfully long one. With any cartridge.
mabye you should consider trading your rifle for one with a magnum bolt face.
For your info, the nosler acubonds in .338 have real high BCs. I think the 250 grain has a .575. (just working from memory here)
In my opinion , if you shoot bullets les than 200 grains stick with the 30,06.
...tj3006

35 Whelen Wanna-be!

Guys, this is helpful. Wouldn't the 338 Win Mag need a longer action than '06? I was actually thinking of using something like the 160 TSX/TTSX or 180 AB which I think are basically intended for the 338 federal, just thought this would give me little more range....

I have shot plenty of elk at 400ish with a 270 and 130 grain pills and they were dead quick with one shot, but I just wanted to have a little more 'whomp' without going to my 330 Dakota....plus I have the action available....

Mighty Peace, I haven't had a smith tell me he could do the Dakota in the IV action, or I would have gone that route, both of mine are on V actions....

I am still working on getting a 300 Dakota done, trying to decide on what action....I'm hoping Surgeon might make me one once I find employment again

Fish..I have 2, 338-06AIs..one has a 19" barrel the other has a 24" barrel.. I have used 180gr. accubonds in both, and they run at 2700fps and 2980fps respectively in those rifles... I killed a red stag, using the 180AB, at about 250yds with that 19" barreled rifle,and he was DRT...

I don't think I would hesitate to shoot an elk with that bullet at 300-350yds with a load that started out at close to 3000fps... I have piled up elk with lesser loads (7mag shooting 175gr bullets running at 2850fps), and they were usually flattened on the spot.

In any case, I would never part with either of my 338-06's. I don't think you will be disappointed if you build a 338-06..

Z

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
The 210 Grain TTSX bullet would fill the bill perfectly and hammer ELK to your stated 400 yards range

Done. Close the thread.

338-06? Do it and never look back.

Play around with various 200-210gr bullets and let them dictate what to shoot. Practice out to 400 yards, (awful long shot IMO) so you know what they are doing, and it will get the job done.

Great cartridge.

quote:

I agree. Nosler list minimum velocity for both the PT and accubond as 1800fps. Basically the velocity you still have at 400 yds from a 338-06. No doubt the 338 would hit a touch harder. My vote is the Elk wouldn't know the difference.

My own wetpack testing says diff. Once the impact vel drops below 2200fps or so, the NAB nor the NP will not open much. Remember, the bullets are really designed for 338winmag vel. so at 400yds, you are looking at 2200fps vs 1900fps +/- 338wm vs 338-06. Once you get below 2000fps, I would not expect the bullet to expand much & even a well placed shot is likely to lead to a longer tracking job w/ a caliber size hole in & out. JMO, but the longest shot I have made was about 350yd on a zebra, low heart shot, not very effective. The 2nd longest was about 325yds & that was a perfect heart shot on a big bull elk. The bullet exited & the elk showed little sign of being hit. Yep, heart was a mess, but w/o a 2nd shot that broke the off leg, he would have gone a ways. So for bigger than 400# game, I will stay closer to 300yds & that gives me an IV over 2000fps.

I love my 33806

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Guys, this is helpful. Wouldn't the 338 Win Mag need a longer action than '06? I was actually thinking of using something like the 160 TSX/TTSX or 180 AB which I think are basically intended for the 338 federal, just thought this would give me little more range....

I have shot plenty of elk at 400ish with a 270 and 130 grain pills and they were dead quick with one shot, but I just wanted to have a little more 'whomp' without going to my 330 Dakota....plus I have the action available....

Mighty Peace, I haven't had a smith tell me he could do the Dakota in the IV action, or I would have gone that route, both of mine are on V actions....

I am still working on getting a 300 Dakota done, trying to decide on what action....I'm hoping Surgeon might make me one once I find employment again

The 338-06 and the 338 win mag have the sam max OAL for Saami specs. I would imagine the actions to be the same. The recoil isn't that much worse for the 338 win mag, you could go either way. But since you have the 330 dakota, get the 338-06 and don't look back.

The 270 bullets are all designed to work for 270 win bullets, and as such, should open up well to about 400 yds. OTH, the 338 bullets are mostly designed for the 338 win mag, again with a window to 400 yds or so for 100% reliability. Using a 338-06 drops the window by 100 yds or so.

Of the lighter bullets, the drop in SD might be ok for deer and lighter critters, but considering the size of elk, I would feel more comfortable with a 210 or 225 gr bullet. I am amazed at what a 225gr 338 pill does to game, it is amazingly effective. I would state (much to the dismay of many) that a 338-06 is a more effective killer to 300 yds than a 300 win mag.

As for elk hunting. If you can get to 400 yds, try to get within 200 yds. Your elk kills will be amazing and you will have to follow them a lot less. If you know terrain won't permit, get the 330 dakota.

Trying to get range with lighter pills is counter productive. You have the velocity you need, but the smaller SD and less momentum of the pill doesn't give you the bang-flop you are looking for by going to the larger diameter.

And the last food for thought item, instead of spending the money on a new rifle (can't believe I said that), you can always down-load the 330 dakota a bit to get a slightly less booming rifle. You can make note of the sight in difference on the scope and adjust between the two loads. On the long shot, load the hot stuff, re-adjust your zero, pull the trigger.

John

IMO if you want to shoot 160-180 gr bullets get a .30-06. Any velocity gain from shooting 160-180 grain bullets is lost fairly quickly due to their low BC (The 180 gr NAB is like .323 or so).

The 210 gr TSX or the TTSX has a decent BC around .430 and will will open at low velocities.

Good help here guys. I need to study and have a better grasp of SD and BC, my basic thought was the greater diameter would aid in wound channels/blood trails, and perhaps aid in killing effectiveness on bigger critters. I have usually gotten much closer than 400 when elk hunting, but I will say I have had a lot of shots at 400 present themselves, and I have been successful in all the shots I have taken at these kind of ranges on elk, so if I take a rig on an elk hunt, I want to be confident it will perform at that kind of range.

I had not thought I could do a 338 WM on a '06 length action, and the downloading of the 330 Dakota is an interesting thought, but if I lug that rig--it is very heavy--I'm gonna shoot full house loads.

Maybe I should rethink the application if I build a 338-06, I really thought some of the new 338 weight bullets (lighter ones) would open up a longer range window for this cartridge. Hmmmmmmmm

I've owned a train load of rifle's in my life. Most close to factory jobs, a fair amount of semi custom's, but have built just a few from the ground up from scratch.
Growing up reading everything Elmer Keith wrote, I decided about 20 years ago that I would someday build a favorite rifle with every aspect to my spec's. The rifle is now real close to being completed.
I purchased the action in the white; a older A5 Sako. I had a 25" Kreiger match grade barrel installed; all the metal lightly bead blasted and finished in a beautiful rust blueing.
I bought a nicely figured chunk of English Walnut, and shaped it into a classic shape with a long pulled back grip, and nice shawdow line on the cheek piece, finished with hand rubbed oil. Jack O'Conner would be proud!
I topped it with a Matte finished Leupold 1.5-5 scope, and am installing flush mounted sling swivels.
It's been an 8 year project, but far exceeds my expectations.
O yea, and the most important part, and the one that I knew for years; it would be a .338-06!
Cheers

I read a lot about 400+yard Elk cartridges these past several years. If you don't have an accurate rangefinder and about four hours a week to walk the woods and guess then range the distance, it won't make much difference if you have a cartridge that will show zero rise from the muzzle to 1000 yards. The drop from a bull you guess at 400 that is 425 will most often miss or cause a low chest wound.

Rich
Been hunting them for 31 years now in Idaho, only ever shot one over 200 yards

I hunt moose in grizzly country,so I kinda like a 338 225gr. I have both a 338WM and a 338-06.
A thought on the 338-06.In order to get 2650-2700 they quote,I needed a case filling powder,the 4064 class gave me pressure signs I was uncomfortable with.When I tried the 4350 class, compression made the velocity drop. It's an ackward case size,a longer COAL or AIing might help. I found Ramshot Big Game burn rate perfect for 2650. I think IMR-4007,N-550 are in the same burn rate and maybe RL-17 is dense enough.

quote:

Originally posted by downwindtracker2:
I hunt moose in grizzly country,so I kinda like a 338 225gr. I have both a 338WM and a 338-06.
A thought on the 338-06.In order to get 2650-2700 they quote,I needed a case filling powder,the 4064 class gave me pressure signs I was uncomfortable with.When I tried the 4350 class, compression made the velocity drop. It's an ackward case size,a longer COAL or AIing might help. I found Ramshot Big Game burn rate perfect for 2650. I think IMR-4007,N-550 are in the same burn rate and maybe RL-17 is dense enough.

Yeah, you have to push the 338-06 hard to get 2750fps w/ a 225gr bullet in a bbl less than 23". I run the 210grNP @ 2750fps all day, no pressure issues. It kills very well, opens up well out to 325yds or so. Beyond that, the expansion gets dicey. I would love to get 225gr to shoot in my rifle, but it just wont group anything into less than 2". It will shoot 200NAB, 210NP & TTSX & any 250gr into a solid 1" all day, but something about that bbl jsut doesn't like any 225gr bullet I have tried.

I was thinking the same thing someone else said. For lighter bullets why not just go with the 30-06? From what I have learned (mostly here) the 338 should be able to get a higher IV due to the larger diameter but I would think the inferior BC would negate that at some point and the SD of bullets that weight would be less than you might want on elk. But then again, what fun is there in yet another 30-06?

Dwright, sounds like a great rifle. I have been enamored with the caliber without much technical knowledge to be honest. That is where AR is so great, lot's of good intel here. I do want a rifle capable of opening up bullets on game at 400 if I do this, and I am still gathering info on whether or not the bullets like the 180 AB or the 160 TTSX will or not.

I won't go to a cartridge that is marginal in this regard, and I have the skill, experience and results on game at that distance that it is not a concern of mine to execute a shot at that distance.

I am just not interested in an '06, why I can't really say....I may just leave this rig in a 270 and tweak it to be a special one--If 400 yard shots are not on the table, maybe it's worth building one just for those ocasssions, I just don't know--and I still don't know if I can build a 338 WM off of this action.

Thanks all--Don

If anyone is looking I have a set of mint LEE 338-06 reloading dies. I can make someone a decent deal on. I'm in the process of building a 338-06 myself. Only complaint is the lack of brass. I wish remington or winchester would make factory ammo or brass. I realize you can make brass from 06, but it's often nice to have correct headstamp brass. When you've got multile calibers and wildcats it's alot easier to keep track. I did see quality cartridge makes brass but have no experience with them.

Forget all that .338-06 nonsense and step up to a precision slammer .




.5MOA 800 yd. effective range 1,700 yd. plus

Doc, that is a cool looking rig to be sure....is that yours or a promo pic?

I like it!

Fish, thought about an 8mm-06?

That would be something different to add to the collection.

Kirby is fixin' to start a build for me and I toyed around with something different to add, but finally decided just to stick with a 25-06. I was using my only 25-06 as the donor action and just didn't want to be w/o a .257 on hand.

Reloader

Fish,

Check out the 9,3x62 Mauser - Will shoot 250 to 300 grain bullets, will fit the bolt face & magazine w/o any work and is a classic cartridge for a European rifle!

Reloader, I had not, that sounds interesting, but.....Ray, that is a very good idea it sounds. I had not gandered at that at all. I will look into that for sure!

Thanks guys--Don

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Forget all that .338-06 nonsense and step up to a precision slammer .




.5MOA 800 yd. effective range 1,700 yd. plus

The $5k price tag is a bit hard to swallow. And the thought of the bbl changes every 1,000 to 2,000 rounds is a bit daunting. Not sure about the 1700 yd range, I kinda remember the lapua having a max effective range of 1200 yds or so. Still impressive.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
.....Ray, that is a very good idea it sounds. I had not gandered at that at all. I will look into that for sure!

Thanks Don

Don,

Here's a perspective - 8mm Mauser on left and a 9,3x62 on right with a 285 gr bullet:



My reloads:



I used the the 285 on left to do the pre-work up loads for the 286 Nolser Partition on the right. I also have some 300 Swift "A"s for future work, but have not found the beast that can stop the 286 NPT yet!