My primary rifle for years has been a well worn but well cared for pre-64 Model 70 30-06. I currently have a custom 7x57 in the works and was thinking of upping the horsepower on my Winchester a bit. I've been thinking of rebarreling to a 338-06 but have wondered is it possible and/or reasonable to make it into a .338 WM? Or should I just stick with my original plan?
Thanks,
Jeff
Posts: 784 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 18 December 2000
Skibum, it depends on what the application is, you haven't given us a lot to work with. Both are good cartridges but to go from a .30-06 to a .338 WM is quite a step up in power and recoil. What are you using it for and what distances?
Posts: 2092 | Location: Canada | Registered: 25 April 2003
Yes, the conversion is possible, but I would hate to chop up a pre-64 Model 70, even a "well worn" one. New barrel, new magazine follower and feed rails opened, and opened bolt face -- all of this makes a rather expensive conversion and the rifle will be worth less than in its original state. If you want a Model 70-type rifle, just buy a new model 70 in .338 or buy a Montana action and have a .338 built on it. I think you'll be money ahead.
Posts: 13266 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
I would be VERY reluctant to start turning wrenches on ANY previously unmodified pre-'64 Winchester. I have a 1948 vintage M-70 in 30-06, and it WILL NOT be used for a project foundation. PERIOD.
The 338 WM is a fine cartridge, and I've owned a couple of them. My heavy game/mean critter rifle is a CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 Mauser, because it's just a more useful caliber if you handload. The 9.3 is a superb cast bullet caliber, and it can use 9mm Makarov bullets to cook up varmint rounds if yer so inclined. The 338 is not as cast bullet-friendly as the 35 Whelen, 9.3 x 62, or the 375 H&H.
Fact is--the 30-06 is no slouch of a round, either. The 24 inch barrel on that M-70 can prompt 2500 FPS out of the 30 caliber 220 grain RN with judicious loading, and the 180's can easily and safely exceed 2700 FPS. A 180 grain/.308" Nosler Partition at almost 2800 FPS is a pretty good hammer, and if I go after big critters with a scoped rifle that's the rig that gets the nod.
The 30-06 is a damn sight cheaper to run than the 338, that's for sure. The 9.3 would be an expensive toy to fire if not for the bullet molds. As far as that goes, the 30-06 is one very fine cast bullet rifle, too. The caliber's versatility is unparalleled--period.
If you REALLY want a 338, get the new-series Winchester M-70. Be aware that a rifle in that caliber is basically a large/nasty critter rifle ONLY, unlike the 7 x 57 (GREAT game caliber!) and the 30-06 which are highly versatile. The 375 H&H is a better jump to a "hammer" than the 338, and the 35 Whelen and 9.3 x 62 are a lot more flexible than the belted rounds--but the 375 is a pretty good cast bullet caliber, if that's a factor.
Just my thoughts--having made a similar selection about a year ago.
Posts: 299 | Location: Yucaipa CA | Registered: 21 December 2002
I concur with the comments above... Don't mess with that pre 64... It's worth more as is. If anything, sell it and you can build your self a custom with the proceeds.
Posts: 337 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 15 March 2001
The conversion is an easy one as the bolt, magazine and feed rails will not have to be worked on. The .338-06 also does not give up too much speed to the .338 Win Mag either. An added bonus is if you ever want to return it back to a .30-06 for any reason you would only have to have the original barrel re-fitted on the action.
Posts: 277 | Location: McLeese Lake, B. C. Canada | Registered: 06 June 2003
If your .30'06 barrel is badly worn you can rebore to .338'06 or .35 Whelen, this is a little more economical than rebarreling. On the other hand you will be altering an original pre64. But if it has had a lot of use you are not really ruining a collector's item. I have a pre64 '06 that I had rebored from .220 Swift, giving me a 26" barrel length which I like. Did this some years ago and it is a composite, action from one rifle, barrel from another, Pacific Research stock.
quote:Originally posted by Deputy Al: I would be VERY reluctant to start turning wrenches on ANY previously unmodified pre-'64 Winchester. I have a 1948 vintage M-70 in 30-06, and it WILL NOT be used for a project foundation. PERIOD.
The 338 WM is a fine cartridge, and I've owned a couple of them. My heavy game/mean critter rifle is a CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 Mauser, because it's just a more useful caliber if you handload. The 9.3 is a superb cast bullet caliber, and it can use 9mm Makarov bullets to cook up varmint rounds if yer so inclined. The 338 is not as cast bullet-friendly as the 35 Whelen, 9.3 x 62, or the 375 H&H.
Fact is--the 30-06 is no slouch of a round, either. The 24 inch barrel on that M-70 can prompt 2500 FPS out of the 30 caliber 220 grain RN with judicious loading, and the 180's can easily and safely exceed 2700 FPS. A 180 grain/.308" Nosler Partition at almost 2800 FPS is a pretty good hammer, and if I go after big critters with a scoped rifle that's the rig that gets the nod.
The 30-06 is a damn sight cheaper to run than the 338, that's for sure. The 9.3 would be an expensive toy to fire if not for the bullet molds. As far as that goes, the 30-06 is one very fine cast bullet rifle, too. The caliber's versatility is unparalleled--period.
If you REALLY want a 338, get the new-series Winchester M-70. Be aware that a rifle in that caliber is basically a large/nasty critter rifle ONLY, unlike the 7 x 57 (GREAT game caliber!) and the 30-06 which are highly versatile. The 375 H&H is a better jump to a "hammer" than the 338, and the 35 Whelen and 9.3 x 62 are a lot more flexible than the belted rounds--but the 375 is a pretty good cast bullet caliber, if that's a factor.
Just my thoughts--having made a similar selection about a year ago.
Excellent advice above. Not sure what's "well worn" but consider lapping the barrel or recrowning it and also check the bedding to make sure something has not changed there. Many military barrels in .30 have gone beyond 10,000 rounds.
If you must rebarrel it look for an orginal take off barrel. I did this after many years of searching for one and my old M 70 that was a 243 is now a Swift. The 243's throat was gone for four inches and I doubt yours is that bad at all.
Don't over react. Put the rifle aside, polish the bore and after this season get it crowned. And buy a new M 70 in the meantime.
Thanks guys. You are probably right that I should keep the rifle as is. My dad bought it new in 1950 and it has been my main hunting rifle for better than 30 years. It groups right about an inch with 165 or 180 gr. Partition handloads and holds it's zero year to year without fail. Selling it is not an option. With the 7x57 I'm having built I was thinking maybe bumping the old girl up a notch to use as an elk rifle might be worth considering. I have a .375 so I'm covered on the upper end. I have a mule deer trip to Idaho planned this fall. That might be a good place for a retirement hunt and then time to pass it to my son.
Jeff
Posts: 784 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 18 December 2000
SKibum, if the rifle would make you happier in another caliber, who cares if it's a pre-64? If you rebarrel to a .338-06/Whelen/9.3, you could use the same contour barrel, keep the old bbl. & change it back if you feel the sentimental urge. My guns are valuable to me, I really don't care what they are worth to someone else, that's why I don't buy colletor guns (except for that Colt SAA, & I shoot that). I don't think I would spend the money to go up to the .338WM, just buy a M70 super grade, but rebarreling, yeh, why not?
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
Don't trash that old M70 in any way. She's a grand, old lady with a million stories behind her. Pass her on to your heirs just as she is now. My dad bought an M70 in Alaska in 1950. He hunted with it for years, putting various scratches, dents and dings in it, the bluing all but gone. I thought it would be "nice" to refinish it to its original luster, and did so without his knowledge or permission. When he saw it, he was almost in tears. He said it was my rifle now, that it wasn't his gun anymore, that I had changed it, that I had destroyed an old friend. I felt pretty bad about that and wished I hadn't done it. So, don't change that old gun you have; keep it and keep alive the times and memories it holds. Just my three centavos... At Christmas 2001 my dad gave me the M1894 (1910 manufacture) in 32 WinSpcl he bought as a 12 year-old in 1942. He gave it to me in 1975; it took 26 years to actually take possession of it as it was in MN and we were in Italy and other parts of the world where private ownership of guns is not a viable option. I have learned my lesson: no changes to this gun.
I'm toying with doing basically the same thing; taking a pre-64, 06 and turn it into a 9.3x62. BUT my rifle is a gun show piece, NOT one from my Dad. DON'T mess with it, pass it on to your boy instead.
I'm thinking of having Lilja make me a same taper 24" tube, chamber to 9.3x62, and screw it in. I like this rifle, it was a bargain at $350 and its maybe 90%. But NO sentimental value and I intend to keep it anyway.
FN in MT
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
I dont recall who is was, but one members signature used to read "the only purpose of a gun is to please its owner" and I agree completly. I only buy into the "dont change a thing" line of thought if it either A) significantly alters the value of an otherwise VERY valuble rifle. Or B) has sentimental value that can only be retained "As is".
I havent had enough exposure to pre 64 model 70s to say if your falls under "A" (but I have my doubts), and only you can decide if it falls into the "B" category. Just my .02 c.
Posts: 10189 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
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