Does anyone know of a factory rifle whose magazine is long enough to allow for seating a bullet to the lans? I prefer 300 WSM, but I would gladly choose a different caliber with similar characteristics if I could find one with a long magazine.

Thanks in advance.

The problem with most factory rifles is that they are set up to handle the heaviest factory round available. Due to their weight these bullets will be more like a cylinder with less taper in the front. So the ligher bullets will have to jump. On many factory rifle you can't even seat the light bullets out far enough to engage and still keep it in the case. The M70 and several others have a spacer in the back of the magazine that can be removed.

It is true that it is MUCH more common for a factory rifle to be long throated - come to think of it, I have NEVER run into a factory rifle with a short throat. I'm sure they exist, but I have never loaded for one. As Ramrod said, it is not uncommon, that the reamers used for factory chambers preclude you from reaching the lands within the max length of the magazine. Sad, but there it is.

The good part is, that sometimes you are lucky and you can get good accuracy even if there is a considerable bullet jump. The Weatherby numbers all come with enormous freebores, and some of those shoot very well. Normally, it requires more attention to your loads, the more bullet jump you have, the more important ammo with low runout figures becomes.

Now to the factory rifle issue. Offhand, I can only think of one rifle where you are almost guaranteed to be able to reach the lands - not necessarily with all bullet weights, but at least with mid to heavy weight bullets: the Blaser R93 with a short to medium length cartridge. Not that Blaser does not cut long freebores, they do (European calibers are sometimes the worst for this!). But because the R93 is conceived as a switch barrel system, the mag well is long enough to take .375 H&H length rounds (around 3.6" or so). So, if you happen to get a .308, .30-06 or even a short magnum (e.g. .300 Win Mag) family round, you are almost guaranteed you'll have enough room in the mag box to be able to load out far enough to reach the lands. The R93 may not be everybody's cup of tea, but it does have this particular advantage. (Don't get one in a Wby caliber or a .375 H&H length cartridge, though, then you have lost the advantage the long mag box gives you in this respect).

- mike

P.S. The .300 WSM should work well in the Blaser.

Guns with plenty of room:

Sako
Sauer
Remington (most of the time)

Guns with short mags:

Browning
Ruger
Savage

The others fall in the middle

This is just my experience and may not be true of all calibers. All the Sakos I have loaded for (4) have had plenty of room even on detachable magazines. My Beretta Mato in 300 win also has plenty of room but I didn't post it since they don't make it anymore. Brownings with detachable magazines have all been short. There's something about a WSM that precludes this problem, like a tapered leade or something, but I'm not sure. MHO


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

Woods,
Perhaps you didn't understand the mans needs..

That would depend on how far out you set the bullets in the case and this gentleman is talking about seating bullets out to the lands, and the guns you named will not all do that especially any detach magazine...Some guns have a block that can be removed and so modified to do this.

I suspect he wants to seat a bullet of the heaviest weight in the case as deep as the cross section of that particular bullet, and no factory rifle I know of will do this without modification except the old Mod. 21 and 22 Brnos...

You may want to try www.shortmag.org as those guys would more than likley have your answer. Well good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
Does anyone know of a factory rifle whose magazine is long enough to allow for seating a bullet to the lans? I prefer 300 WSM, but I would gladly choose a different caliber with similar characteristics if I could find one with a long magazine....

Hey BTH, Just sitting here thinking about it, I believe every Bolt Action rifle I currently have will allow "some Bullet styles" to reach the Lands and still fit inside the magazine.

The question you asked is actually more complex than it initially appears. If you have the need for the sleekest(highest Ballistic Coefficient) and lightest(shortest) bullets made, then the Overall Cartridge Length(OCL) must be longer to reach the Lands than for the same cartridge loaded with a lower B.C. bullet of the same weight. So, the OCL might be too long for the magazine, or if the bullet is too short then it might not be inside the case at all when touching the Lands.

Since you are interested in a 300WSM, it implies you are probably interested in a Browning or a Winchester. I've not messed with one of them in a long time, but when I did their magazines were typically a bit longer than those on a Remington. Meaning I've been restricted to a shorter OCL and I've not had any problem reaching the Lands and fitting inside the magazine using most bullets.

So, the "problem" as you visualize it may not exist, or may be correctable by selecting a bullet with a slightly lower B.C. The good news is that inside 400-500yds, the lower B.C. bullets work great and retain plenty of energy to make clean kills.

Do you know of someone who is currently experiencing this "problem" with a 300WSM?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Woods,
Perhaps you didn't understand the mans needs..

That would depend on how far out you set the bullets in the case and this gentleman is talking about seating bullets out to the lands, and the guns you named will not all do that especially any detach magazine...Some guns have a block that can be removed and so modified to do this.

I suspect he wants to seat a bullet of the heaviest weight in the case as deep as the cross section of that particular bullet, and no factory rifle I know of will do this without modification except the old Mod. 21 and 22 Brnos...

Ray

I have 2 Sako 300 win mag that both have detachable magazines for which I load 200 grain TSX's. The 200 grain TSX is about as long a bullet as you can get. They have not been modified. I have loaded all kinds of bullets, including plastic tipped, and seated as close as .015" to the lands and have not even approached magazine length restrictions. I have a Beretta Mato in 300 win with a detachable magazine that will seat to the lands with no problem. I have a Sauer 30-06 with a detachable magazine for which I have tried a dozen type of bullets. No modification, no problem, out to the lands.

I suspect that mho is correct in saying that the Blaser mag is long enough.

I suspect that there are other rifles out there that will seat to the lands without modification.

Am I still missing something or do you own any of the rifles I mentioned and have a problem seating to the lands?

Clue me in, I don't intend to misinform anyone.


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

Ah, this discussion about the Sako mag lengths, reminds me, that my friend swears by his Sako TRG, because apparently the mag of that rifle allows him to load WAY out. So that is probably another rifle that should be added to the list (if not already included in woods' general Sako comments?).

My friend has gone to extreme effort to make and keep his TRG working - primarily because he thinks highly of the action, not least because of the long mag. First, he had to figure out how to replace the factory recoil lug setup, to get the thing to shoot. Then he set it up with a different stock, which along the way required manufacturing of a new bottom metal... Some people just won't take a simple "can't be done" for an answer...
- mike

mho

Yep, one of the Sako's I load for is a TRGS 300 win and I finally got it to shoot about an 1", but it took some effort. Lots of room in that mag. The other Sako's are Model 75's and they all give excellent accuracy without tweaking and still lots of room in the mags. Best gun off the shelf I've run across.


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

RE: TRGs. Woods, don't know what your current setup is, but my friend ended up switching from a stock mounted recoil lug, to one that was mounted on the barrel (or action - I forget which). Bit of a hassle, but possible. If you need more info, I can supply an e-mail address to ask questions. Big gun, the TRG!
- mike

Tikka's are also known to have generous clips. Maybe a coincidence that that they are the "chevrolet" division of sako. In my 30-06 I can really hang em out but I think the tikka 06 may use the same clip as the 300 win mag's??

BTH, unfortunately, I don't know about the .300 WSM, but my Savage 12VLP in .22-250's magazine is more than long enough to allow rounds loaded to the lands to fit. Ironically, those I loaded to suggested COAL actually shoot better... go figure. You may look into the Savage rifles, as they do make them in 300 WSM, and who knows, maybe you won't need to load them that long in the end anyway?!

I plan to order a Savage model 14 in 300 WSM. I called Savage and they are not scheduled for release ontil June.

I had a Remington Model 7 in 300 SAUM that my dad was really fond of. I let him have it. I shot the following bullets through it and could get none of them through the magazine if seated to .020" off the lans: Nosler: 180gr Partition, 150 gr. BT, 165 gr. BT, Hornady SST 150, 165 gr.

It shot ok. It would average 1" and many tmes .8" groups at 100 yards and was not particulary finicky with powder.

I'm looking for a 1/2 minute rifle at 100 yards. I'm beginning to think I should have had one built. I came really close but, I wanted to try a Savage first since I've heard great things about them here. If the new one I get doesn't shoot 1/2" groups, I'm calling the custom shop.

Maybe I'll get lucky and find a rifle that will shoot 1/2" groups .070 off the lans!!!

quote:

Maybe I'll get lucky and find a rifle that will shoot 1/2" groups .070 off the lans!!!

Actually BTH, both of my Savages do exactly that--shoot 1/2 MOA with standard COALs. That is, of course, when I do my part (which is more rare than I like to admit).