I have decided to use express rear sights on my rebuild, probably three leaf. I am totally ignorant in how to set-up and how to aim properly (ie, where to put the front bead in the shallow rear V)? Would you please help? Thanks captdavid

Just drop it into the bottom of the swallowtail.

When it comes to this I'm clueless. I haven't seen the sight yet, it's ordered. I might understand better when I get it. Ok, the front sight must be fixed in place and height. There is one fixed rear sight. I'm assuming one uses a file or dremmel tool to not hit to sight it in. This will set the elevation and windage for let's say 100yds. The first flip-up will have to be cut shallower, the next even shallower? The windage the same, or do the flip-ups have a windage adjustment? I apologize for my ignorance, but I've always used screw adjusted rear sights or scopes. Captdavid

Essentially you have it correct. The more classic sights do not have individual windage. The more modern ones do. There are bases that allow the sights to be adjusted somewhat for windage. The first step, in my opinion, is to match the front sight height to the swallowtail at what ever range you decide at least as close as possible. Then the rest are in fact as you stated.

After reading some response on 24hrs, those guys have given me a great idea; I'll buy a two set. I'll set one sight for heavy for caliber i.e. 220gn in 30-06 and 175 in 7x57. The other will be for 165s and 150s respectively. I'll shoot them dead on for 100yds. Captdavid
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If I may ask how far do you plan on shooting your open sight rifle?
I used to think the one standing and 2 folding leaf sights were very cool, but in all practical use an open sight rifle sighted dead on at 100 will probably shoot pretty well at any distance you can shoot game with open sights.
I have a hard time imagining accurately shooting game at 300 yards with express sights.
Just my thoughts.

I think our posts crossed! captdavid

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
If I may ask how far do you plan on shooting your open sight rifle?
I used to think the one standing and 2 folding leaf sights were very cool, but in all practical use an open sight rifle sighted dead on at 100 will probably shoot pretty well at any distance you can shoot game with open sights.
I have a hard time imagining accurately shooting game at 300 yards with express sights.
Just my thoughts.

I completely agree with this post. My CZ 505 Gibbs came with express sights and 100,200,300 yard leaves. I emailed them and asked if they couldn't make the rear sight a solid one with no leaves like the Ruger African models. I said 'shooting to 300 yards with open sights on a 505 is a bit optimistic, and the leaves will invariably flip up at the worst possible moment when I may need to stop a charge.' They disagreed and that was that. To be fair to CZ, I have 4 of their rifles, and I love them and the service I have received from CZ. A top quality company.

I see a wreck about to happen..Cap you will be better off with a one standing sighted in 2" high at 100 yards, and a center hold on a deer will work up to 250 yards, hold on top hair line at 300..Never use a drimmel tool to cut a shallow V, use a flat v file or even a 3 corner file..Try not to file on a one standing with two or three folded down, try to get a proper front sight that will sight in without filing. As to windage, properly set up by the builder will center windage otherwise you can only drift the sight left or right, and this can look pretty ugly if you have to move it very far either direction...Adjusting irons correctly on an English or custom rifle is way more difficult than some let on.

A pretty neat trick to use on an English rifle,Double rifle or any hunting rifle with irons is one used by the old time Texas Rangers on their Winchesters, and its great for speed and accuracy. Use a post, I use the NECG gold face partridge .500 high and file the top of the front sight post to zero as it will shoot low to start with...My sight picture is the post level with the top of the V. Its as fast as a receiver sight, and as accurate..Some refuse to try it, others try it and I get rave reports..it works. The eye centers the post in the V, to sight it in you simply file the top only of the shallow V rear to whatever zero at whatever range..I file mine to zero at 3"s high at 100, that puts me 4" high at 200 and dead on at 250 to 275 depending on caliber..My double rifles and all my guns are sighted thus. A dab of cold blue on top of the sight to cover the file marks or polished steel. My Texas Ranger grandfather sighted his Winchesters dead on this way at 100 yards, it sure worked for him. I have his rifles and I shoot them as he set them..At long range he lifted the front sight in the V and place it on the animal. It was uncanny how accurate he was at ranges to 300 yards with that 30-30 and a 38-40 at 200 yards. He could wear out a feed bucket with a box of shells.

BTW if you file too much off the post you will be shooting high.. file the shallow V down correct your mistake.

Its much easier to use on a one standing sight sighted in a little high about one or two inches than it is to sight in one standing and three down but it can be done and should be if you choose that sight..I suggest in this case to sight the one standing at 50, the first one down at 100, the second at 200 and the third at 300 and so fourth. After you get he one standing at 50, the rest fall into place fairly easy..

I agree with Ray. I had to zero my Mauser sights in when I got it. Having been opened up to 404J from the original chambering in 10.75 Mauser it shot too high. Left the rear safari sight alone and made a new higher blade for the front sight, filing down to give me a dead on POI at 50m with the top of the blade level with the top of the ears of rear V.
I find my eye tends to automatically centre the top of the blade on the POI I want and level with the V. I would have to make a conscious effort to put the front blade in the bottom of the V and I imagine it would be the same with a bead in the bottom of the V.

Sounds like I need to try this technique.

Another one for sighting the front post to hit a little high at 100 yards like Ray suggests.

I sight in rifles with open sights 3 inches high. This is what used to be called a six o'clock hold. I use a 6 inch black pistol target at 100 yards and hold the front blade at the bottom of the black. This allows the bullets to hit dead center in the black.

Once you get used to doing this you will find its pretty fast an accurate. Just focus on the point you want to hit, bring the sights up without changing focus, look over the front blade and fire.

For me, a flat top or very shallow V rear with a good size bead front . put the bead in the v so I see all the bead, the whole bead and nothing but the bead. File it so the bullet impacts centrally superimposed by the bead at 100. Its fast and intuative I've found for me.

So here is a thing and off course anyone can do what they want or commission whatever they want ! its a land of freedom of choice !

I have been following captdavid's quest into British guns and what appears at face value to be a rebuild on the lines of what was a "British bolt rifle"

In this lies the difficult part: There is no standard "British bolt gun" or "British Mauser" !

There are however a collection of gun styles that are uniquely British and each of these styles are very distinct ! A trained eye can stand in front of a gun rack and basically pick out and name the big brands as a car enthusiast could do standing on a busy street corner.

Typically when people attempt to mimic these styles they make the error (and that is purely a subjective opinion off course) in that they mix styles and worse they fail at reproduce the defining key elements of a particular style.

The most common failure is in the reproduction of the English mauser stock dimensions especially the "weight" of the forearm.

Second to this a combination of fitments that are contra the general style they are wishing to reproduce..... For the biggest failures I have seen are like tattoo fails. Making spelling errors on the engraving of caliber.

404 Jefferies or Jeffery's comes to mind



Just as a comparison:

This is a 1926 Jeffery 375 H&H


The rifle is slender and sleek in lines, the rear sight island is low and fits with the overall "weight" of the rifle

This is one of the original Land Rover Commissioned limited builds done to the " H&H Style commensurate with the caliber in this case also a 375.



So what is "wrong" with this rifle ? For one it's way to heavy in lines , the fore end and stock overall could lose some weight, the quarter rib is just a tad to heavy !

With regard to windage adjustment, my favorite is the front sight with set screws to drift/set the sight to the right or left as desired. The rear sight is elevation only adjustable.

If it is not all decided, I don't actually like some express sights much, and seem to recall that Westley Richards put an aperture sight on their .318 magazine rifles.

My problem with express sights relates mainly to those rear Vs that have no flats on top. I believe the origin of them was that, when used with an optional front moon sight, the only way to give a zero common with the normal small bead was if both were to be pulled hard down into the V - side flats would rarely be high enough to reach the top of moon sights.


What's wrong with all that? Well, for those of us who grew up with ordinary tangent sights, the need to pull beads into the bottom of Vs is a bit foreign and likely to be forgotten in moments of stress, like when some critter is charging or fleeing. On two occasions I have had my second shot from a double so equipped go over the target's back.

So, if your rear express sight has flats on top and is zeroed to align the bead (or post?) top with them, great - go with it - otherwise, you might shoot better with a large peep sight.

I am saving up the modest $295.00 tariff for a John McLaughlin (out of Helena, Mt.) take on the Rigby striker mounted peep sight. These tend to settle the bead in the middle of the circle. In years past I used the standing rear express sight to very good effect. My eye was on the target. I would see the brass, or ivory bead, and simultaneously settle it into the center of the shallow "V" while at the same time placing the bead on my point of Aim. It is all subconscious, quick as can be, and quite effective.

I grew up shooting a military peep at a variety of front sights. Indeed, you automatically center the front sight in the center of the ghost image of the peep. I think that there is a natural progression from the shallow "V" to the peep sight, and thence to the low powered scope as our ages (by their own, I certainly have never aged.

The Schmidt and Bender fire dot sight was both an innovation, and brilliant step forward. The glowing dot in the center of the sight draws our eyes immediately to it. Place the dot, in a circular outer ring, on the target, and bang! Adele (the fat lady) starts singing Wagner's flight of the Valkyries.

I have found both the express sight and the rear aperture sight to be ideal when taking a rapid shot at an animal running toward me, away from me, and even when it runs perpendicular to my line of sight. That is what allows you to take a fleeting glimpse, and anchor an animal dead as a hammer, and DRT.

A couple years ago I used this method to install and zero a NECG island with three leaf express sight on a .505 Empire. The rifle was already set up with detachable scope mounts and a detachable peep sight for use when the scope was removed. I didn't want to change the front sight since it was correct for the peep sight. before installing the express sight base to the rifle I filed a very shallow V in the standing sight. I the taped the rifle barrel with one piece of masking tape and placed the express sight on the tape and marked each end of the bases location on the tape. I then taped the sight to the barrel with more masking tape before firing the rifle. With the taper of the barrel being what it was changing elevation could be accomplished by moving the sight up or down the barrel. As luck would have it the sight zeroed in an almost perfect location to be installed on the barrel. I then marked the barrel where the sight was to be located and took it to my gunsmith who installed the sight. The gunsmith was amazed that the rifle was dead on using this method. I didn't bother with the other leaves because I just wanted them for looks.

Steve Dawson,
Im going to have to try that..makes since..

As much as I like a shallow V, I have no doubt the receiver sight is better in every respect under any circumstances other than historical..

I however have never been satisfied with a cocking piece peep sight, they are not particularly accurate as they normally have play in them from inproper installment, and few smith know how to take that play out unfortunately,

Thanks Ray, It worked for me.

I think one has to be realistic about what was deemed acceptable accuracy using open sight from the old time classic rifles.

They were hardly precision instruments and at the ranges they were intended for most could manage minute of orange and that was by all accounts deemed sufficient for the type of hunting they were doing.

The express sight ( deep V with bead) was a relative short distance, quick pick up and execution type deal !

We must not forget that precision handloading was not an option and everyone used factory ammo in basically factory guns !

I agree mostly with Alf, but I have in many instances out to a hundred yards beat scope users with my irons..Sometimes in off hand shooting that cross hair being magnified makes folks jump at the trigger as they float by the target, I know it does me on occasion..The irons don't seem to move at all even though they do, but you don't see it and pay attention to trigger pull...I became aware of this some years ago when Jim Brockman and I attended a African shoot in Oregon..I thought it was iron sight shoot only and scopes were allowed..There was about 20 shoots that day, running Lions charging buffalo and elephants, fun day..I won second places in 17 of those shoots, shooting against scoped rifles with my iron sighted .375 Mauser, not one first..the problem is I could not see the pencil circle that was the bull, and I just shot at the targets like I would a live animal..many times I was just barely outside of that circle, but I left with a happy face and proud of how well those irons Ive been shooting since childhood worked even if allthe trophies went to first place..Jim got a kick out of that as he beat me several times.