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I have a 243 in the safe because the 257Bob wasn't available in an inexpensive factory rifle. I think that the same could be said of the 7-08 versus the 7x57. Maybe that applies to the 260 and Creedmore in comparison to the venerable 6.5 Swede. At least the 30-06 is still available, despite the widespread success of the 308. The Bob, Swede, 'Mauser', and 06 are all winners. So where does the 270 fit, almost a small bore magnum? All winners. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | ||
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I must be overwhelmed in nostalgia. My favorite "modern" rifles are a 7x57 on a Mexican short action, a .257 on a Remington 721, a .30-06 custom on an '03 action, and a .30-40 Krag carbine. The most "modern" rifles are an M1 Garand and and M1a (both nostalgic favorites from military service). It seems for me at least there has been little need for any cartridge less than 80 years old. | |||
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The 270 fits as a fantastic all around medium bore that was one of the first big velocity steps. Remember in 1925 for similar weight per caliber 150 30-06 and 130 270 Win the 270 jumped us from ~2800 to solidly 3000+ in factory loadings in mass produced rifles Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Probably the most practical because of 06 brass would be the 8mm-06 hotloaded... From a 26" barrel for maximum velocity and RL-16. Watch the Chrono to get the. 323 TTSX firing the 160 grain. I don't mind shooting a hotload from a strong action such as the 98, MK5, or the 60degree bolt in a Sako. | |||
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3150 fps would be about standard. Not to much recoil velocity yet not too slow to be boring. MB probably if wanting to shoot at 400 yards and 8mm is near perfect frontal area to hunt antelope to elk. If Phil Shoemaker can use a 30-06 for bear defence, one can carry an 8mm in bear country. 160 grain hotload TTSX or hotloaded 180 grain E tip. | |||
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AR: In opening this thread I was thinking about the 243 being readily available in new factory rifles and the venerable, old-timey, 257 Roberts being almost impossible to find in new factory rifles anymore. The 257 roberts and 7x57 Mauser are old classics that used to be available in factory rifles but now are only infrequently offered. While I have no doubt that the 8mm-06 is a great cartridge, it is a wildcat rather than a former classic, like the Bob or Swede. However, I can see your point if 8mm measurement is viewed as nostalgic. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I don’t think the 270 ranks up there with the other calibers you mention in the nostalgia factor. Even though I read somewhere the 270 ranks third in the amount of game taken here in the US. The first being the 30-06 and the second being the 30-30. Can’t remember where I read it or how the author came to that conclusion though. The 270’s nostalgia was written for it by JOC and I agree with the opinion that it would have never achieved the lasting success without him. I love the 270 and killed my first big game animal with it but, I think, it was too close to the 06 at the time and it didn’t have the leg up from being a military round like the Swede, 7 & 8mm Mausers. Same could be said for the Bob. It’s funny though because I have never considered myself nostalgic but 2 out of the 3 calibers I’ve used on animals in the last year or two are over one hundred years old and the third is pushing 70. 6.5x55 - 1894 375 H&H – 1912 338/06 – C. 1950’s Tom Jackson is doing a 9.3x62 for me now and that round will be 113 this year! The RUM’s, WSM’s and the like have come (and gone) but I doubt any will have any nostalgia associated with their name in 50 year’s time. The Swede, the 270, 7x57 will all still be around and still getting it done despite their age. BUT…so many of the great old cartridges have fallen by the wayside because of manufacturing costs. Gun makers build what sells and it’s too expensive to keep many of these old limited popularity calibers in production. Begs the questions though: if all the gun writers jumped on the Swede or 7x57 bandwagon, would we see a resurgence in manufacturing of rifles in these calibers? 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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.270 is the same vintage (1903 case and 1925 intro). It would not be out of place in that crowd. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I find the old cartridges work just fine. I just wish they were more readily available. I use a 7x57 on a M98, a 30-06 on an O3, a 35 Whelen on an O3, an 8x60 on an Mannlicher Schoenauer, and a 404 Jeffery on a M98. The newer stuff just does not have the same appeal. Nothing against the 270 as it is a fine Catridge, it just never really appealed to me. | |||
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284 Win , 358 Norma Mag | |||
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The 300 H&H, of course. | |||
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8x57 loaded to European pressure spec's. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I have a Model 94 Winchester in .38-55 . Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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we could get along fine without the .270.....we could also get along fine without the .30-06 and a myriad of other cartridges.....but as it turns out, there just might not be a better performer on deer of any kind and at any range than the .270 Winchester....BAR NONE! If one has this gun, then there is no need for the .30-06 One would be advised to have a .338-06 instead. That said, a prudent hand loader that owns a .280 Remington can easily live without all of them. The question therefore isn't if one should own a .270 Winchester....it's "How many guns should he own?" /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of my greatest firearm regrets was trading off a FN Browning Safari Grade (Mauser action) in .270 Win that had a lovely walnut stock and tasteful engraving. I just could not get it to shoot less than 1-3/4 MOA (2-7X Leupold scope). I'm now sure with enough work I could have shaved a lot off that . . . but I was young and impatient. This was pre-internet (hell, this was pre-desktop computers) and I believed all the Bob Milek articles stating a rifle had to shoot 1/2 MOA or it was trash. That, and about the only thing I could hunt with it here in NY was woodchucks. We were, at the time and for decades after, shotgun only for deer or bear. When I bought my .260 Rem I'd have jumped all over a 6.5 x 55mm if one was available - especially with a nice wood stock. Even for a couple hundred bucks more. Just because of the history and nostalgia. Plastic is practical, but . . . damn. It's ugly. But I don't think any creature in front of the muzzle could tell the difference between the 6.5mm Swede and the .260 Rem. | |||
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Agreed. Rebarrel a LOTHAR Walther, or SS Krieger or Lilja on a 98,1/2" easy with the 270 Winchester. | |||
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I cant find any fault in your post Tanzan, I concur... You can kill a bear or any soft skinned animal with proper shoot placement and bullet construction.. You can bet Phil normally opts for his 458 Win. or 500 to back up clients, and he does have great respect for the 30-06 under some circumstances..I love the 30-06, I know I can kill a bear with a 200 gr. Nosler partitions or accubonds, and Ive witnessed elephants killed ith the 30-06 as well as a 7x57 with milsurp ammo, but I'll take my .338 Win these days for the big bears, Just good common since, think you...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I'm not really sure there is a "winner" in nostalgia...just a whole bunch of rose colored glasses and some very strange reasoning and arguments. The '06 has been around for how many years??? 112 or so...115 if you count the '03...give or take, the 270 about 10 years younger. There is 0.015" difference between the 8 mm(0.323") and 30 cal(0.308") and 0.015" between the 8 mm(0.323") and the 338 cal(0.338") and a puny 0.007" between the 270(0.277") and the 7 mm(0.284" and a whopping 0.031" between the 270(0.277") and the 30 cal(0.308") yet I can recall a ton of, very strange to me reasoning, why the 270 is a giant killer and the 30 cal an also-ran...the 8 mm ain't worth spit(at least in the good ol' US of A)...a bunch of calibers on the 2.25" case should be burned at the stake...anything on the 308 case is golden. Whatever rifle I happen to be carrying is MY FAVORITE and ALWAYS full of nostalgic memories...that is, I always pick a caliber and bullet weight for whatever I happen to be hunting...now that I have a rifle or switch barrel in almost all the calibers...and because I started out with those renown deer killers, the 22 LR and the 30-30 Win...which soon got partners in fairly rapid succession, a 30-06, 7mm-06/280, then some military 7/8x57's, 338-06, somewhere along in there several 284's and something-something -284's, 7 and 300 mags, 375's, 416, a passel of 45 and 50 cals and on and on and on.  The only ones you could say I'm totally and absolutely nostalgic about are the 338-06, an early build that taught me that not all gunsmiths are what they say they are and what headspace and head separation are all about and the 375 H&H because it split two laminated stocks down the middle of the blind magazine and what f**** around with barrel length REALLY MEANS...contrary to popular thoughts. Besides...if your old enough to wax prophetic about the '06, you've also probably been shooting one for half a century and should be disqualified as being biased.    Good Hunting   | |||
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