7mm WSM Gone?

25 August 2010, 05:48

DMCI*

7mm WSM Gone?

A few years back the 7mm WSM appeared along with the .270, .300, and a few others. Now it seems the 7mm WSM has dissapeared from those offered by gun makers.

So what happeded to it? Killed by the gun writers begroaning another 7mm Mag or some such?

The thing was setting accuracy records in long range matches. I like the 175 BERGER VLD an awful lot and use it exclusively.

.270WSM seems firmly implanted and is the only non-Weatherby .270 magnum, but who wants a 6.8?

25 August 2010, 06:14

vapodog

Gunmakers will only inventory guns that sell.....period.

Personally, I thought the 7mm WSM was the best of the four....clearly the general public went the other way!

25 August 2010, 07:02

jeffeosso

the 7 was the better, with longer brass .. which probably doomed it as odd man out

25 August 2010, 07:46

Its not gone among the Long range/tactical/custom crowd have a peek over on snipers hide and see some of the amazing custom rigs getting built in 7mmwsm and the claibers Long range capability for the amount of powder and recoil it uses.

25 August 2010, 08:05

Conservative Rifleman

As I understand it WW forgot to make the headspace longer on the 7mm WSM than the 270 WSM when they brought it out. Like the 280 Rem vrs the 270 Win they don't want a larger bullet to chamber in the smaller bore.

WW recalled what rifles and 7mm WSM ammo that was made and designed it longer on its shoulder.

This delay to market is what killed it.

25 August 2010, 16:46

jeffeosso

CR,
pretty close, though there wasnt a recall.. the 7 was released later, by design, as the production lines were on the shorter case ...

to no one in particular
the info on wikipedia is pretty well bogus -- they are a year off on severeal things, and even say its parent case is the 404 .. you can't make spec wsm/rum from jeffery cases.. that's as meaningless as saying the 9,3x64's parent case is the 8x57 ...

wsm/rum spec is .550 diameter, and jeffery is .545 . you can't expand the casehead, though you can swage it DOWN... if you fire a made up jeffery case in a wsm chamber, it will have a HEEL .. a set of calipers instantly reveils this.

does that .005 matter? that's the difference between a .318 8x57 mauser and a .323 8x57 mauser, so yeah

heck, .308 vs .303.. that's only .003

techincally, since you can't make spec brass from anything else, the wsm/rum are on their own brass, inspired by, but not made from, the jeffery case

25 August 2010, 17:25

<Mike McGuire>

I think Americans and Australians go for 270 instead of 7mm, when the case capacities are the same.

270 Wby and 7mm Wby being one example and of course 270 and 280.

25 August 2010, 18:04

Conservative Rifleman

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
CR,
pretty close, though there wasnt a recall.. the 7 was released later, by design, as the production lines were on the shorter case ...

Thats not what I heard or read. I stand by the information that the mistake was made as I wrote.

25 August 2010, 19:54

jeffeosso

CR,
No problem - i could easily have missed it, though i was pretty closely wrapped up in the delivery, as I had started working on a 257 version of the 300 WSM, and had wanted to start with either a 270 or 7mm .. until i was told by browning that the 7wsm would be a different case, iirc, in november of 2000 (iirc), due specifically to avoid the ability of chambering in a 270, prior to the 300wsm print being released to the public ..

I can only find one mention of the 7wsm being recalled, though from a normally reliable source.

I'll call or email winchester later and ask ..

As I am saying, I don't recall a recall, but that could be simply me having not seen it.

not saying you are wrong, merely saying my recollection of the order of events is different, but its not important.

the 300 was released, then the 270, then the 7mm ..

25 August 2010, 19:57

jeffeosso

I just called winchester service .. they denied that there was ever a recall on the 7wsm, and stated that the 7wsm was always a longer headspace .. don't know if that's propaganda or not, but feel free to call and ask yourself - (800) 322-4626

here's the link to winchester's offical time table
http://www.winchesterguns.com/...na/detail.asp?id=243

26 August 2010, 08:41

OLBIKER

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I just called winchester service .. they denied that there was ever a recall on the 7wsm, and stated that the 7wsm was always a longer headspace .. don't know if that's propaganda or not, but feel free to call and ask yourself - (800) 322-4626

here's the link to winchester's offical time table
http://www.winchesterguns.com/...na/detail.asp?id=243

You are correct.I remember Jon Sundra had a 7 X 300 WSM built for a trip to Africa and when the factory ammo came out,found it did not fit because the case shoulder was further forward.His rifles chamber was simply the 300 WSM necked down to 7MM.

27 August 2010, 07:23

Headache

jeffeosso,

You are correct. Winchester never had a recall on the 7mm WSM because none were ever built in the shorter configuration.

I was the design engineer for the M70 product line and the company representitive to the SAAMI organization. While reviewing the proposed cartridge specifications I found that there was a problem and reccomended a change to the shoulder location by .038"

Headache

30 August 2010, 07:58

DMCI*

quote:
Originally posted by PC:
Its not gone among the Long range/tactical/custom crowd have a peek over on snipers hide and see some of the amazing custom rigs getting built in 7mmwsm and the claibers Long range capability for the amount of powder and recoil it uses.

Here is mine built on a Model 70 WSM action with Lilja 3 groove barrel.

with 100 yard target.

31 August 2010, 16:57

Bushchook

I had a 7mm WSM and currently have a .270 WSM . Would have bought a second 7mm if I could have got one in a Sako . I thought it was a great cartridge but with only 7 thou difference in bore size it and the .270 version do basically the same thing. I preferred the range of projectiles available for the 7mm.

The hunting imperative was part of every man's soul; some denied or suppressed it, others diverted it into less blatantly violent avenues of expression, wielding clubs on the golf course or racquets on the court, substituting a little white ball for the prey of flesh and blood.
Wilbur Smith

31 August 2010, 18:22

Conservative Rifleman

So it does seem that what 'killed' the 7mm WSM was a delay to the market and that a design error was caught and corrected.

Too bad as I also prefer the 7mm bore over the 270.

31 August 2010, 19:37

seafire/B17G

I think the biggest think that spells success on rifles in the long run, is if Jim Bob and Bubba can buy a box of ammo at Walmart.. and it has to be cheap...

I've seen Bozos buying 30/30 rounds to put thru their M1, and their excuse was '30 caliber is 30 caliber ain't it, and this one was cheaper..'

Folks in the USA tend to look at 7mm as Foreign and 270 as American..

face it, most consumers aren't handloaders, don't own a batch of rifles... don't really shoot that much...

for myself, the only WSM cartridge I would have even considered was the 7mm version..

01 September 2010, 08:54

MileHighShooter

The American gun buying public as a whole, will ALWAYS gravitate to a 30 cal, magnum or not, before any and all other diameters. If you look at the history of modern carts...the really stands a chance is if "Rem" is stamped at the end. Didn't work out for the 7 RSAUM, but it did for the 7 RM, 7 RUM, 7-08, 280, and while not stamped Rem, they did legitimize and produce the 7 STW.

The 7 WSM is great, wish I still had mine! I doubt it will ever "die", I am sure there will always be some silver box winchester ammo around, heck look at the other obscure calibers power points are loaded for. It will live on through reloaders, especially since it has taken a foothold in long range and bench shooting. Other great carts have had similar fates, they hold on by some cult following and always remain, and even now and then having a rebirth of popularity sometimes.

01 September 2010, 21:03

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Conservative Rifleman:
So it does seem that what 'killed' the 7mm WSM was a delay to the market and that a design error was caught and corrected.

Too bad as I also prefer the 7mm bore over the 270.

no ... not even close ..this was a marketing strategy, NOT a known delay to the public. the 300 was released first, then the 270, then the 7 then the 325 .. there was no KNOWN delay in the market for its turn out ... please don't say "well, it was introduced last, therefore its delayed" ... as the same thing applies to the 223 magnum, 222, 221 fb, THEN the 223rem ... last doesn't mean bad ..

what "killed" it? who knows, probably marketing, and jamison's lawsuit, then many companies at least saying that they weren't going to chamber any WSM as a result of the suit .. the public's "unknown" of if they could get ammo, and the FACT that only 2 rounds named 7mm anything have gained a good foothold in the american shooting PUBLIC .. 7mm rem mag and 708 rem ... but we didn't care for the 7mm rem express, but love the 280 ...

so, CR, do you think if the 7wsm had been introduced first, and even named 280WSM, that it might have done better?

03 September 2010, 10:22

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Conservative Rifleman:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
CR,
pretty close, though there wasnt a recall.. the 7 was released later, by design, as the production lines were on the shorter case ...

quick to tell me how wrong i am, but not to self correct ... this is a human condition, not one specific to CR
Thats not what I heard or read. I stand by the information that the mistake was made as I wrote.