Can anyone give some insight as to what might be happening with my reloads. I am reloading .30-06 for a Browning A-Bolt and a Remington ADL and am running into an issue with the ADL. I sometimes have a problem locking the bolt with some of my reloads but only on the Remington. They all seem fine in the A-Bolt.

I am using a full length RCBS sizer die and RCBS shell holder and have it adjusted so the holder comes in contact with the die when at the top of the stroke. When I was at the range I had two or thee out of 30 - 35 rounds unable to close. I also made some dummy rounds at 3.250 COL and have been testing them. Sometimes they all load fine and then other times it gets tough to close the bolt.

I should mention that I did not have any issue with 12 factory rounds at the range.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance, Gary

My guess is that it may be the shape of the bullet and the length of the throat being shorter in the Remington. If you try a different bullet at current length or seat the current bullet deeper, my guess is that the problem will be solved.

Buckeye,

Thanks for the reply but the problem already occurred with Barnes 150 TSX's and Speer 180's. I'm confused.

I'll give you a real strong bet that the case isn't sized enough for the offending gun. YOU should get a stoney point headspace gauge kit so you can figure out what each gun is doing to the brass and then match the brass to that gun.
Bottom line is that you will probably have to set the die about another 1/8 turn deeper and let the press lever "cam over" a bit on the die to bump the shoulder back far enough for the offending gun.
I have a couple of redding body dies in some popular calibers because I own several guns like you do that can give me troubles. I can actually take the body die and resize loaded ammo so it will go into either gun. There is almost .020" between 2 300 win mags I have as far as chamber/headspace goes. I was able to "reclaim" alot of loaded brass for the newer gun with the tighter chamber.

Kraky,

Thanks also for the reply. I'm thinking along those lines also but by having the shell holder run tightly flush with the die doesn't that give me the correct factory headspace sizing for the case? I know I'm not having a problem with the OAL because I'm way under the max. And seeing as the factory ammo doesn't seem to cause the problem to appear, does any of this make sense.

My original loads I took to the range were the 150's and after getting home I did adjust my die down another 1/4 turn and it definately "cams over" now. I am using a Lyman turret and I am well aware that the turret can actually pivot on center when sizing so I made sure that the shell goes all the way into the die.

But even still, after adjusting the die, the problem still remains.

Since you are FL sizing I check the OAL of the cases. Could be some case lengthening and the M700 has the shorter chamber neck. Since you are FL sizing and loading for two rifles using the same cases (and load presumeably)I'd suggest you get a RCBS X-die. It will eliminate case lengthening during sizing and thus the need for trimming. That's what I do because I FL size and use the asame load in 3 M1903s. I also load the same hunting load for two sporters and use the X-die to size.

Larry Gibson

It's really frustrating, I trim all my cases after I size so I can't see that being an issue either. I should (have) mention(ed) also that I'm new to reloading bottle neck cases but have been reloading .45 ACP and .44 Mag for a while. Set me straight, does the case headspace on the shoulder or the mouth? It all seems so straight forward and I can't seem to pinpoint where the problem stems from. Maybe I need to gather some more info and see if a more definitive pattern arises.

Your 06 head spaces on the shoulder.
You say 3 out of 30 rounds gave you this problem. Did you fire the 3 ? if not try screwing your seating stem in a half turn, and run them through the die, mabye they will chamber then.
Also if if the same loaded round works fine once but binds another time or vice versa, make sure your firing pin goes all the way back into the bolt face every time when you cock the rifle. If it protrudes a little some times it might be a piece of crud got into the bolt and gets behind the firing pin.
Its been a while since I messed with a remington much , but I had a ruger 300 win that had that problem ...tj3006

Start over again with new brass and keep the brass for each rifle seperate. Don't interchange the loads between the rifles. This should solve your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by RB98SS:

I am using a full length RCBS sizer die and RCBS shell holder and have it adjusted so the holder comes in contact with the die when at the top of the stroke.

The set of instructions that come in the RCBS box says:

quote:

FULL LENGTH OR NECK SIZING

Screw the full length sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder when the shell holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. Be sure all play is removed from the press leverage system. To do this, adjust the die as above, lower the shell holder and set the die 1/8 to 1/4 turn further down so the press cams over center. Set the large lock nut and you're ready to size.

Just like kraky said. Dammit I hate it when he's always right!

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
Your 06 head spaces on the shoulder.
You say 3 out of 30 rounds gave you this problem. Did you fire the 3 ? if not try screwing your seating stem in a half turn, and run them through the die, mabye they will chamber then.
Also if if the same loaded round works fine once but binds another time or vice versa, make sure your firing pin goes all the way back into the bolt face every time when you cock the rifle. If it protrudes a little some times it might be a piece of crud got into the bolt and gets behind the firing pin.
Its been a while since I messed with a remington much , but I had a ruger 300 win that had that problem ...tj3006

Tom, I fired the rounds out of the A-Bolt. I'll check the pin.

quote:

Start over again with new brass and keep the brass for each rifle seperate. Don't interchange the loads between the rifles. This should solve your problem.

JT, I'm full length sizing, how would that help?

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
I'll give you a real strong bet that the case isn't sized enough for the offending gun. YOU should get a stoney point headspace gauge kit so you can figure out what each gun is doing to the brass and then match the brass to that gun.
Bottom line is that you will probably have to set the die about another 1/8 turn deeper and let the press lever "cam over" a bit on the die to bump the shoulder back far enough for the offending gun.
I have a couple of redding body dies in some popular calibers because I own several guns like you do that can give me troubles. I can actually take the body die and resize loaded ammo so it will go into either gun. There is almost .020" between 2 300 win mags I have as far as chamber/headspace goes. I was able to "reclaim" alot of loaded brass for the newer gun with the tighter chamber.

Have to go with kraky on this one. I have encountered the same thing with my pair of pre64 Win. 270s. There is enough of a differnce in the chambers to give ya some problems. I have solved the situation with the use of die shims but if you are reloading for friends rifles you may want to invest in the Stoney Point tool or the like.

Lets see, all the same brand brass, fired the same number of times, etc, etc. and every so often one or two or three out of your batch of reloads are hard to chamber in the ADL. I assume all the brass is trimmed to a uniform length or within tolerances. Is that right?
My first guess is that on a few, you are short stroking your press. On your next trip to the range, when you run acrost one of the hard to chamber rounds, mark it with a magic marker and when you get home, reload it paying particular attention to run your press ram all the way to the top when you resize it and see if the finished round chambers easily now.
When you have your ram all the way to the top, do you get a firm "cam over" feeling? When you are resizing a case and have the case in the die and the ram all the way to the top, is there a space between the shell holder and the die? If so, you need to turn your die down another 1/8th turn.
You don't need to buy anything. Your rifle is telling you something is too long. Measuring it isn't gonna make it shorter. Something is wrong with your technique or set-up.

Take a file and cut your case head holder down until the cases fit in the offending chamber. Do not cut the die. your not getting enough resizing in that chamber, its probably a little tight and/or the other rifle is a tad sloppy but both are probably within specs...Its hard to make a any die fit every rifle as chambers vary. chamber reamers wear and chambers get to the outside of specs before the factorys toss them. the first chambers are always tighter than the last chambers. However they do a surprisingly good job.

what I would do is use two case head holders, The modified one for the offending rifle and the regular one for the non offending chamber..

Wow, this get confusing!

Today, Oct. 25:

See Onefunzr2s post: I told you this is confusing.. correction:

the first chambers are the larger than the last chambers with the reamer, The reamer itself gets smaller with use, or so I'm told...hope I got it right this time..

I had the same problem with two 30-06's also. One is a custom job with a saami minimum chamber and the other a factory chamber. Brass fired in the factory chamber would not chamber in the custom even after full length resizing. Measured everything, tried a new set of dies, nothing worked.

Easiest thing to do is keep the brass seperate and forget about trying to make it work.

You might also find that the two rifles prefer different loads.

You might want to move this to the reloading forum where more may see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Its hard to make a any die fit every rifle as chambers vary. chamber reamers wear and chambers get to the outside of specs before the factorys toss them. the first chambers are always tighter than the last chambers. However they do a surprisingly good job.

Isn't this ass backwards? As the reamer wears, it wears smaller, making the last chambers tighter. But, you're the expert.

quote:

Originally posted by jtinidaho:
Start over again with new brass and keep the brass for each rifle seperate. Don't interchange the loads between the rifles. This should solve your problem.

This is the correct answer!

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Lets see, all the same brand brass, fired the same number of times, etc, etc. and every so often one or two or three out of your batch of reloads are hard to chamber in the ADL. I assume all the brass is trimmed to a uniform length or within tolerances. Is that right?
My first guess is that on a few, you are short stroking your press. On your next trip to the range, when you run acrost one of the hard to chamber rounds, mark it with a magic marker and when you get home, reload it paying particular attention to run your press ram all the way to the top when you resize it and see if the finished round chambers easily now.
When you have your ram all the way to the top, do you get a firm "cam over" feeling? When you are resizing a case and have the case in the die and the ram all the way to the top, is there a space between the shell holder and the die? If so, you need to turn your die down another 1/8th turn.
You don't need to buy anything. Your rifle is telling you something is too long. Measuring it isn't gonna make it shorter. Something is wrong with your technique or set-up.

Hmmm, this post strikes a chord. I set up my die to "cam over" firmly without a case in the die. Should it also cam over firmly with a case in it? Right now, with a case in the die, I can see the shell holder contact the die but there is no cam over feel whatsoever.

You shouldn't neccesarily feel a cam over while resizing a case but there shouldn't be any space between the ram and the die when the ram is at the top of it's stroke. Lowering the die just a smidgen (very scientific term) may help. My thoughts on the short stroking an occasional case comes from it is only a few of the rounds. Marking them will tell. If it is the same cases, them perhaps the inner dims are off in some manner causing them to not react like the others. I'd give them a toss and get on with life.

Dave,
OOOOps, your correct it was ass backwards..guess your the expert now.

I have two 30-06 rifles myself and I keep the brass for the two rifles strictly segregated.

Though both are Remingtons one is an autoloader and this it requires rather different care and feeding.

The auto lives exclusively on special small base sized cases
and 165gr bullets (Formerly 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tips but Now Accubonds) loaded to 2700fps with IMR4064 generally for actual hunting I use once fired nickle plated cases.

My Bolt action rifle lives on Neck-sized brass, I get away with that for hunting by hand cycling ALL ammo carried for hunting through the rifle to verify that it will in fact chamber
neatly.

I even keep the ammo for the two rifles in different colored cases, MTM 50round boxes, ammo for the auto loader in Green boxes, ammo for the bolt action rifle in either Red, Brown or Blue boxes to differentiate the different loadings.
Red for 150gr Barnes loads, Brown for the 165gr partitions
and blue for my remaining Barnes 165g XLC loads.

My suggestion for you is to treat the two different rifles like they are different calibers, because you are more likely to be able to flap your arms and fly than you are to find that the best load for both rifles is the same

Then again, Jack O'Connor once said that if you find a 30-06 rifle that won't shoot into less than an inch with SOME 165gr bullet and 48gr of IMR4064 consult an exorcist rather than a gunsmith. (or words closely to that effect)

AllanD

Thanks everyone for the helpful feedback.

Gary

Don't feel alone. I have had the same trouble loading for just one rifle (my brothers 7mm mag) for a long time. The factory rounds would chamber perfectly, and would extract perfectly. But then when I ran them through the resizing die and reloaded them they wouldn't chamber!!!!!!!!!! I checked everything there was to check, and I do mean everything. I even bought another set of dies, thinking that the dies were worn out. Finally I did what Mr. Atkinson has suggested you do and it worked perfectly.

Basically, what I think is happening is that you are squeezing the case just enough so that you don't make the neck longer but you do make the shoulder stretch out a little bit. You have to get that case further in the die and basically the only way to do it is to file a bit off the shell holder or file a bit off the die. A shell holder is a lot cheaper than a die.

It worked for me. I hope it works for you.

quote:

Originally posted by jtinidaho:
Start over again with new brass and keep the brass for each rifle seperate. Don't interchange the loads between the rifles. This should solve your problem.

I would keep the ammo seperate for each rifle. I would expect that one chamber is slightly longer than the other and that even after resizing that one case is still longer than the other.

I don't know if its the source of your problem, But I do agree with keeping the brass from one 06 seperate from the other...tj3006