I just bought a mint condition Pre-64 Model 70 Supergrade in 30-06. The rifle was built in 1952 and it came with a mint condition Lyman Alaskan 2.5x scope with the Post and single horizontal cross-hair. The scope was mounted in Buehler (sp?) mounts and rings. It has the leather scope covers which are also in perfect condition. The scope also seems to be just under an inch in diameter, so I assume it is a 7/8" tube.

Anyway, I was curious about the value of the scope. I'm also curious about how well made they are. I suspect that these older scopes may fog up. I'm considering keepin it on the rifle because the glass is very clear on it and the old scope just seems to look right on that old rifle.

Tim

At the time of their inception, and for many years afterward, the Lyman Alaskan was considered one of the finest, if not THE finest, American-made hunting scopes it was possible to obtain! They are plenty rugged, and a lot of them in military clothing were used on M1903A4 and M1 sniper rifles during WWII. I used mine in Alaska for three years, and it didn't ever fog up. There is no worse place on earth for this problem than coastal Alaska!! The Alaskans were advertised as being weatherproof when they were made, but of course, seals harden, crack, then leak! If you are going to use it in murky environments, I'll bet there's a custom scope repairer out there that can reseale and re-nitrogen it, and it would be worth it!



I've seen ones in mint condition today sell on E-Bay for over $200.00, and some in not-so-good condition still go for over $100.00.



I once owned a pre-64 M70 Supergrade in .375 H&H (made in 1949) with an Alaskan in a Paul Jaeger sidemount. This rifle would keep all rounds in a 1" circle @ 100 yards for as long as I could stand to shoot it off a bench! The mount permitted instant removal and reinstallation of the scope with no change in zero! Of course, the Alaskan scopes lacked the sophisticated coated optics of later years, and have non-perma-centered reticles, so accurate mounting is of utmost importance unless you don't mind a crosshair unction "out in left field"!



Several years back, Leupold introduced a reincarnated Alaskan with modern optics, etc., but it didn't sell. Probably because today the "experts" insist on variables that have an objective lens off of an astronomical observatory with a 30mm tube, and a weight that exceeds the rifle it is perched on!!



I will stick my neck out here, and say that for 99% of all shots one ever gets in the hunting field, most hunters would be better off with a low-mounted Alaskan than with some jim-crack variable with built-in rangefinders, salad bars, etc. !



KEEP YOUR ALASKAN. You'll be glad you did!!

I agree with you ElD -



Lyman Alaskan Scopes (the M-84 in military sniper guise, IIRC) were and often still are, superb scopes. They were made with B&L top-quality lenses, which at the time were probably among the 3 best makes in the world.



The last one I sold on eBay, which was over 3 years ago, went for $180+. Its optics were about pefect, but much of the outside finish of the scope had either turned to brown or worn off. No matter, it was still an excellent scope for actual shooting use.



I used them for years in the North, and they did not fog. I preferred the post reticule with no crosshair for my use, which is the way my M-84s came. Commercial scopes were also available with T.K. Lee dot (no visible crosshair), T.K. Lee dot & crosshair, crosshair, post with single crosshair, and possibly other reticules.



My .375 M70 18" barreled (cut off) bush guns had them in G&H double-lever side mounts which were easily removed for iron sight use, and I thought the world of them.



Still do.



AC

As a matter of fact, the Alaskan I had on that old M 70 .375 had a 3-minute Lee Dot, and the crosshairs WERE nearly invisible! I should have kept that gun! But then, there are lots of others I should have kept, too. When I returned to the Lower 48 (big mistake also!!), I "guessed I didn't need a .375 H&H" anymore! I have owned two .375's since then, both nice Rugers, but neither is up to the quality of that ancient M70!! But I sure like those Alaskans!

There's no question that in its day, the Alaskan was THE top American-made scope. They were largely hand-built, nicely-finished, compact, and tasteful in their appearance. As you've no doubt discovered for yourself, they also have a tremendous amount of built-in eye-relief.



Is it as good as most of today's scopes? No, not even close, but if I owned a vintage pre-64 Model 70 package such as yours, I'd certainly keep it together, as-is.



AD

Thanks guys for the info. I do think that I will keep this scope on the rifle. It just looks right on such a classic rifle of the same period.

I kind of wish that the bases and rings were detachable and not fixed. I just like the concept of taking off the scope to get to the iron sights, even though I have never done this on a hunt.

Anyway, I have quite a few 30-06's so this one may make it to the range once or twice, but probably won't see too much field use. For the price I paid, I was just happy to get this rifle in such great condition. The scope and rings were just a bonus.

The rifle is still at my gunsmith/FFL while I wait out the mandatory 10 days in California. Once I get the rifle back in my hands, I will post a few pictures.

Thanks again.

Tim

I have to agree with you. The Alaskan was one fine piece of equipment and still work today. Nothing fancy, just work horses. Plenty of ey relief, I never or saw anyone get hit with one on heavy rifle.

The Alaskan does not have the centered cross hairs, so it requires a totally adjustable mount for them to be effective..They do not come close to comparing with todays scopes optically, but they will work to kill a deer or whatever..

You would be surprised at how really unimportant the fine optics we have today are for killing an animal, now that ought to light up some posters around here...but the fact is if you can put the crosshair on a out of focus animal it will kill him if your steady..

Now a better option to the Lyman Alaskan is the Leupold Alaskan clone of the the Lyman, if you can find one..They made a special run of them some years back and I bought a passel of them, but they got expensive and I the whore in me let them go at high dollar prices.. now I only have a 2.5x..I sold the 4x and 6x that I had and a couple of 2.5s

I wish you guys would get your facts straight! No less a personage than John Barsness, famous optics expert, has already set the record straight on what these scopes are worth over at the Campfire.

"Stroebel lists $70-125, but again I have never paid that much, and never seen one with an asking price more than $50. He must live in a different part of the world."

MD

You don't have to take my word for it, though. I'm sure that E will be along directly to correct your error.

Old Dog you need a wake up call, they have soared in value recently for some unknown reason, apparantly they start at $125 and go up depending on condition...

I never thought they were all that good, compared to any of todays modern scopes and I had to use them for years and I got by just fine with them and could do so again if I had to...

I wish I had some more of the 2.5X Leupold Alaskans, but alas the are now selling for $275 and up!, thats why I sold all but one of mine..

You can send the old Lyman scopes to Parsons Scope Service, Ross, Ohio, and he'll make them look & work like new for a very fair price. He bought out the company's parts inventory when they quit making scopes.

Shumba,

It seems that you bought the rifle as a collector and maybe fun at the range. If you have other rifles for hard hunting then keep the Super Grade nice as it is.

Your lucky that it did not have the side mounts as they were still in some favor then. The Beuhler mounts were very well made and had a good reputation in those days.

The Alaskan scope is of course dated and of low power and not bright as well.

It's a sweet rifle however and about as good as it got.

Ray, I understand! If you look very closely, you'll see the at the end of the post. It appears that even famous optics experts are sometimes guilty of spending too much time in their own back yard. I offered $100 a piece for all the Alaskans in excellent condition they had over at the 24 Hour Campfire, but so far have not had anyone take me up on the offer. I have a number of them, including all 6 different reticles. I kind of like them!

Jim

I suspect most of us could get by with a whole lot less scope than we use, and the old scopes of yesterday would still work and our success level wouldn't even change..We are a spoiled lot in the good old USA, and think nothing but the finest optical insturment is a given need..Nothing could be further from the truth...

If I had to hunt the rest of my life with a 2.5X Lyman Alaskan or Lyman permacenter, then so be it and I would fair just as well I have no doubt..

But I'm almost as guilty as the next guy, but not quite as I still have not gone over board on scope power like the average American..I don't count the x's...I like the 1.5 to 5 power range on all my big game scopes, and it peeves me to see someone show up in my N.M. deer camp with a nice light, trim featherweight rifle and it's got a 6.5x20 European monster on it!

Ray, yup. Regardless of the justification folks try to hang on them, over powered scopes merely tempt people into trying shots they shouldn't.