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You can take the 7x57 to Africa, but you have to call it a 275 Rigby.  I'll vote for the 9.3x62 as well though, followed by the 275 Rigby. You must then attach an Oberndorf style bolt handle, iron sights, a barrel band, finish it off in a nice rust blue, then nestle it into a wood stock styled in the tradition of "London's Best." Don't blame me, those are the rules, I just post here ...  ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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Tell that to the Elephants that fell to Bells 7X57. BTW, you do realize you dug up a 7 year old thread?  AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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On second thought I don't believe caliber has anything to do with the Mauser 98 as it is in itself a classic action and in any caliber, and I'm a true nostalgic..An 06, 7x57, 8x57 or a 338 Win or 416 Rem. its still a classic rifle... It was however designed for the 7x57 and 8x57, but even the Germans and the English modified it many years ago to the 9.3x62, 318 WR, and others that are "classic" calibers, that just cannot be denieghed. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Are military calibers allowed in all European countries? The original poster said, "finnish moose to roe deer in germany. Caliber that gets the job done without excessive recoil". With that in mind, and staying away from the military calibers, I suggest 6.5x57 on the low end, 8x60 on the high end, and 7x64 in the middle. | |||
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Flip a coin! For me it would be a tough decision between a 9.3x62 and a 7x57. Since I don't have the latter, it would probably be my choice. But, on second thought, I could always use another 9.2 Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty. | |||
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404J Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Nobody has mentioned the 7x64 Brenneke - good for anything in Europe - fills the same space as the 30-06 | |||
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From 1950-1962, Brno chambered their ZG-47 Mausers in calibers ranging from 5.6x61 to 10.75x68. They were sold mainly in Europe, Canada & South Africa. Their extensive and detailed brochure had this to say: "Of the above mentioned cartridges [5.61x61, 270Win, 7x57, 7x64, 30-06, 8x57S, 8x60S, 8x64S, 9.3x62, 10.75x68], the one that can be called universal and best recommended is the 8x64S. Its characteristics are high muzzle velocity, outstanding shooting accuracy and great stopping power." It is of course similar to the 8mm-06 & 338-06. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Yes, they are "Brno rifles" todays. And they may be in 308 too. | |||
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Like this ? http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/22845.htm | |||
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As I know, there are some restrictions in a few countries, for example in some cantons of Switzerland you must hunt only with caliber more than 10 mm. But 8x57, 30-06, 308 are free now. | |||
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Coming Home Rifle: 8x57 .323 bore Will really do anything one needs done in the game fields. Varmints are not game, neither are DG for the purpose of this thread. (Of course Bell would have been very pleased with a 8x57 and a 220 Grain RN solid but his opinion doesn't matter much today on the Net.) "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Cartridge development could have stopped over 115 years ago with this, and the 22LR. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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A lot of people suggest the 8x57 as a classic Mauser round. It wasn't designed by Paul Mauser. It was designed by a commission in 1888. The first Paul Mauser round was the 7x57. First used in 1892. Even with this the 8x57 and 7x57 would be a good choice. I have a 280 Remington, so I would probably go with the 8x57. Leo The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
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Really is there any other choice than the 318 Westley Richards?  Mart "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Things must be slow in AR land. Thread has been dug up twice  That said, it would be interesting to find out what the OP decided on. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Me too.  | |||
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The classic rebarrel caliber is really anything you want. The British made an art of it in calibers like .275 Rigby, .300 H&H, .404 Jeffrey, .303 British. And hundreds of custom rifle builders have made them in almost all caliber options. What caliber makes you tick, then go with it. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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9,3x62. | |||
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That makes sense but it often is far different in the real world. I have shot a lot of game with the 30-06 and the 375 under similar circumstances. One would think the 375 would have killed much quicker but I have found that there is really very little difference. Shot placement is what it is all about. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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This eternal and interesting topic defined today as: "What would the classic rebarrel caliber be? a caliber applicable to all european game from finnish moose to roe deer in germany. Caliber that gets the job done without excessive recoil. must fit in a 3.4 inch action. any information and replys will be much appreciated." Is not going to be settled by you for me or me for you. Each variable as to recoil, your opinion of killing effect, rifle weight, ammo availability will always vary with each of us. I would use the caliber or call it cartridge that's the most popular where I was hunting. The Mauser sporter I have made from a 1909 DWM is chambered for the 30-06 however I am in the USA. To each his own.  Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says. When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like! Do that with your optics. | |||
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 Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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For the animals you listed of which some are quite big and tough, the 9.3x62 is without a doubt one of the most outstanding calibers I have ever used and with the addition of RL-17 its even better than ever...I have shot a few Cape Buffalo with it and as far as I can tell it kills as well as a 375 H&H and its a humdinger of a Idaho elk caliber.. As much as I love the 7x57 and I have two of them and would hunt any animal on earth with one using a 175 gr. Nosler and 175 gr, solids, but I can tell you the 9.3x62 is hands down better on the big animal end. A 320 gr. Woodleigh at 2400 FPS is definately death and destruction to the largest of animals in NA, and damn good in Africa IMO. The secret of the 9.3x62 is it kills as well as a .375 and recoils like a 220 gr. 30-06.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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IMHO, for a light gun, either 6.5x57mm or 7x57mm, and for a heavier gun, 8x68mm, or the 9.3x62mm or 9.3x64mm can take anything. Don Stewart NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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I would never build anything that I could easily buy so that kicks out the 7X57, 8X57, 9.3X62 But it leaves 9X57 9.3X57 and 9.5X57 (.375 Nitro) And the 7.65 Mauser | |||
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8x57. Load with a good 200 gr bullet in the 2,400-2,550 fps range and watch big animals fall down, like elk, waterbuck, and red deer. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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8x57 is a very powerful round with EUROPEAN factory ammunition or handloaded to its correct safe pressure capability. Wimpy American factory ammunition has gained the 8x57 a reputation in the USA as being second string to the 30-06. It isn't. It is equal to or in fact more powerful than the 30-06 in EUROPEAN loadings. The other option but I'd advise against it is to go for a 8x60S that gives you a slight increase in case capacity or as a strictly handloading number 8mm-06. But reality is that 8x57 is good enough and will handle 196 and 227 grain bullets too. German WWII military factory specification was a 196 grain bullet at about 2,350 fps from a 23.5" barrel. German WWI military factory specification was just over 3,000 fps from a 29.0" barrel. Years ahead of the USA and anybody else. Except that in WWII the Germans found that the slower 198 grain French Balle D out-ranged the Mauser at long range. | |||
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9,3x62. Until the arbitrary decision was .375" bullet diameter the old Bock round was ubiquitous for DG meat/depredation hunting all over Africa. Even then, an informal exception was made for the x62 and x74R by most. Ask Ganyana about the Elephant he shot at point blank range with his. | |||
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ray says he can make a 7x57 match a 280 by using a 3006 box and seating long. can the same thing be done with the 8x57 to beat or match the 06, then? | |||
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I'm not an expert in these manners, but it seems to me that the .323 hole makes a difference over a .308 hole at the same speed. My rifle doesn't even have that much recoil, I shoot it with a metal buttplate! The toe-out I have on the stock makes a big difference IMHO as well as a bullet a moderate speed. I load to 2.980", but with a strong action, a 24-25" barrel, and going all the way to max spec, 3.25", I'm sure you could easily get 2,700 fps from a 200 gr bullet. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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These prohibitions were historical and in Germany came about after WWI when the Allies fearful of Germany having a "shadow" army disguised outwardly as civilian marksmanship clubs banned the 8x57JS. The issue being that they thought that the Germsns would reform, secretly, their army but with the 120th Wurzburg Grenadiers now being, in name and "disguise" the Wurzburg and District Gun Club. So civilians couldn't have military (8x57JS) calibre rifles and indeed in Germany the number of rifles in such calibre were limited to 100,000 for the Army ONLY. Thus stopping any possibility of these civilian rifles being of any use at immediate notice as weapons useful to an suddenly enlarged army. So the origin of the 8x60S. These remaining, 100,000 8x57JS military calibre rifles being recorded by the Allies in June 1920, and thus these "double date" weapons with 1920 over the original manufacture date. You'll see it on Lugers and also Mauser rifles of course. This all ended in Germany after Adolf Hitler and was never re-introduced again after WWII when Germany became "free" again and all civilian ownership of weapons was once more allowed. In France the prohibition on military calibres, or ACTUALLY "weapons capable of chambering ammunition used in military weapons" came about in 1939. BEFORE WWII (which began in Europe in September 1939) as a measure of a French Government that was of the left and feared a right wing coup. This was historically then never repealed and lasted in fact until the left wing Government of the currect President saw it repeapled in November of 2013. Belgium also had a prohibition on military calibres. Until about 2005. But the historical reason for this I don't know. But it is the reason that Remington sold so many Model 740 and 760 rifles (and their follow on models) in 280 Remington in France as this was a "substitute" standard for the 30-06 f you like. So to the OP question military alires are, effectively, now no longer banned in Europe as far as Germany, France and Belgium are concerned. I am not sure of Italy however. | |||
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Bluefish, Yes, it can and the results are outstanding. but unless your trying to save the integrity of the rifle, such as its collectors value, you can do the same thing by going to the 8mm/06, one of the most overlooked calibers out there today, it will compete with the 338-06 or the 35 Whelan in almost every case..and that is a inexpensive modification. but thats not a "classic" as per this thread. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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having owned and used an 8x60S I'd agree that if you can overcome the handloding only issue that 8mm-06 would be a good calibre. Indeed the older Speer manuals give reloading data too. Very potent! | |||
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From an European: 7 x 64 in the 70´s and 80´s, .30-06 now. Except NOBODY ( well, hardly anybody ) likes the 98 still there ;( ) .22-250, .243, .270. 8 x 68 S ( earlier ), 6,5 x 68 ( earlier ) 9.3 x 62. vom Hofe Rounds. 7 mm Rem Mag in the 70´s, 80´s, .300 Win Mag now. May be disappointing, may be unromantic, but that´s the truth. 7 x 57 ... HELL NOBODY would choose that caliber, if the 7 x 64 is around! 6,5 x 65 ... since the 90´s, maybe. Hermann formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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Who cares about market trends, build what you want. The single biggest reason that I build rifles at all is because I dont care for factory offerings.. Funny how you say the 06 is currently popular in Europe though! Hard to ever go wrong with that one.. | |||
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The 30-06 has been a classic for over a century and even today it remains one of the most popular rounds in hunting fields around the globe. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I suppose if you put my head in a vise and asked me what the one best caliber ever was and said I had to walk the African and Alaskan country from one end to the other, all things considered..I would, without hesitation, take a 6.5 lb. fwt., iron sighted, 30-06 with 200 gr. Noslers and a pocket full of solids, and if you allowed me two wishes, I ask for a 3X Leupold in Talley QDs..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I don't know why so many people advocate the 9.3 when bullet selection for loading is so poor in North America and ammo even worse. What would make far more sense for a 98 action is a 9x57. 358 bullets suitable for 35Rem and 358Win are easily available If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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I have bullets on my bench from 188gr to 320...yes some are not easily available but no reason to avoid the caliber. | |||
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8x57 cannot match 30-06 when loaded to equal pressures, period. Not at their normal OALs, though both could be loaded long. | |||
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