quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'd buy one, but would really be torn if someone also started doing the .333 ...

In a world where there is a economic recession, where a good .375H&H can be had for $8 a pop, I doubt if any wants to pay $15 for a .333 jeffery. The Horneber brass I have cost $7.50 a piece + S&H.
I have the .333 jeffery, and its going with me to africa here in april
I still have one metford rifled barrel left, with London Proofs, copied from an original small ring Jefferymauser..in case anyone should be reeeeel horney

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'd buy one, but would really be torn if someone also started doing the .333 ...

In a world where there is a economic recession, where a good .375H&H can be had for $8 a pop, I doubt if any wants to pay $15 for a .333 jeffery. The Horneber brass I have cost $7.50 a piece + S&H.
I have the .333 jeffery, and its going with me to africa here in april
I still have one metford rifled barrel left, with London Proofs, copied from an original small ring Jefferymauser..in case anyone should be reeeeel horney

'Bonhams sale 15846 - Sporting Guns, 3 Dec 2008
Knightsbridge

Lot No: 121S1

A .333 Mauser sporting rifle by W.J. Jeffery & Co. Ltd., no. 25470
Flag-safety, hinged magazine-floorplate, the Mauser action with thumb-recess and charger-guide, figured stock (painted) with pistolgrip, horn pistolgrip-cap and steel butt-plate with trap, horn-capped forestock, sling-swivel and eye, the barrel, engraved W.J. Jeffery & Co. Ltd., 9 Golden Square, Regent Street, London W1, with 100 yard fixed-sight and 200, 300, 400 & 500 yard folding-sights (off-set, possibly a replacement), and block-mounted bead-foresight
Weight 7lb. 12½oz., 14½in. pull, 24in. barrel, nitro proof

Estimate: £1,500 - 2,000'

And it wasn't sold...

Voted "no" pretty much on the same grounds as everyone else: today, the .318WR offers nothing that the other calibers in that class cannot do.

Also, even if re-introduced, I don't think we'd ever see "cheap" ammo, as besides the rifle nuts I don't think anyone else would buy a .318WR - so it'd remain a rarity. Those with older guns would only buy little ammunition, so the total pot would be too little to really make this a viable option.

I had to vote yes, cause I have loved it forever. Not practical, not outstanding, but ooooooooohh so classic and stylish.
It has the ring to it, like no other in that class. In a custom Mauser it would be swell, also in guns like Sauer, Blaser, Winchester 70, CZ - but Savage, Tikka, Sako and Remington are out, out, out.

Norma is making so many strange cases, this one would not surprice me at all.

Oh,and while they are at it, the.375 Whelen, please?

The 318 fits the gap between the 6.5/7mm and over .400 big bores. But that would be the only reason to get one.

If I had enough money I would buy one rifle chambered for this caliber. Just because I feel I would buy a part of history...
And Im sure I wouldnt be wrong. The heavy 250gr. would be fine medicine even for our hogs here in Czech Republic.

I voted yes, if Norma would load it or make cases it would yet again be popular as few others .

What price is it on the custom Lothar Walther barrel btw ?

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
The 318 fits the gap between the 6.5/7mm and over .400 big bores. But that would be the only reason to get one.

So does the 30-06 which is all the 318WR is.

No difference - except you have more bullet options with the 30.06.

.

500N,

Similar perhaps but not the same. Different bullets yielding similar results. A better comparison is between the 318 and the 338-06 which clearly will deliver a heavier blow given the bigger, heavier bullets available.

I already have a 338/06 so I don't need a 318 which is inferior to the 338/06.

Probably not unless it was in a rifle that caught my eye. It would definitely have to have some European lineage. Then There would have be access to reloading supplies. I have already played that game with a 9.3x64 Brenneke. Took some scrounging, but I am all set. I would just as soon not have to go through again

Any American rifle would be better served in 338-06. In fact I just picked up Model 70 Classic to rebarrel into a another 338-06.

It was real interesting going back and reading through this thread. The .318 is one of my favorite calibers. I have owned and now own several rifles in this chambering. There is no practical difference between it and the 338-06, 8-06, and probably a handful of other ballistic twins. But, I can say after taking quite a few North American animals and a butt load of African game with a .318, there is something extremely satisfying to me in using a vintage chambering in a vintage rifle.

The easest way to make .318WR-cases is to reform cheap serbian 8x60S-cases which have nearly the same dimensions like the WR with only little fatter diameter (.330 to .323). The 8x60S is something like the poormans .318WR!

quote:

Originally posted by PerH:
I voted yes, if Norma would load it or make cases it would yet again be popular as few others .

What price is it on the custom Lothar Walther barrel btw ?

PerH,

A contoured blank (CM) from L-W runs $252. One thing I found interesting in reading through their website and talking with them over the phone is that they use a 1:8.5" twist rate. Before I ordered my barrel, I spoke with the 'smith who was going to do the work and while he thought that rate was faster than necessary, he didn't think it would pose too much of a problem, especially with 250-gr. bullets. I believe L-W furnishes barrels to Westley-Richards and that this is the twist rate W-R specified.

I had one, and well it turned out to be a real pain in the neck. Cases and Bullets, It was a sweet rifle, But I ended up not shooting it much and then I put it up for sale. I take a 338 Winchester any day of the week. For the usual reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
500N,

Similar perhaps but not the same. Different bullets yielding similar results. A better comparison is between the 318 and the 338-06 which clearly will deliver a heavier blow given the bigger, heavier bullets available.

A 240 gr bullet out of a 30.06 whacks a fair whallop and has dropped plenty of Buffalo, including a few big one's.


Cases for the 318WR can easily be made out of 30.06 cases which are easier to get and cheap.


.

Nope. Ma is not english and in practical terms this cartridge has little to offer to me except perhaps $80/pack of ammo "deal".

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
While there is nothing wrong with a .318 WR, or the 333 Jeffery for that matter, if building a new bolt rifle a 9,3x62 would be my choice.

I have a 9.3x62 and enjoy the heck out've it. A 318 WR would be fun, though!

I did the .338-06 and pretend it's a .318WR.

Terry

500,

right but most rifles are set up to chuck 220 grain bullets at maximum. Wouldn't a different rifle twist than standard be in the offing?

In fairness of this discussion, the 06 is not the 318 neither factually nor I imagine in performance. Ask any of the folks here who hunt the 338-06 and I'm sure they will report it hits with much more authority than the 06 or they would use the 06.

I believe you are right that you can make 318 WR cases with the 06 case.

Good hunting.

id buy one has any company honestly thought of rerleasing it?

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
500,

right but most rifles are set up to chuck 220 grain bullets at maximum. Wouldn't a different rifle twist than standard be in the offing?

In fairness of this discussion, the 06 is not the 318 neither factually nor I imagine in performance. Ask any of the folks here who hunt the 338-06 and I'm sure they will report it hits with much more authority than the 06 or they would use the 06.

I believe you are right that you can make 318 WR cases with the 06 case.

Good hunting.

Do you reckon that .008 in bullet diameter and 10 - 30 grains of bullet weight
is going to make that much difference ?

318 - 240 gn
338-06 - 220 - 250gn ?

I picked 250gn as the trajectory of the 338-06 is not that good with heavier bullets and if you need heavier than that, why not go to a full 338WM ?

I can't see the point, as others say, when there is 338-06 or even such as the 8mm-06 or, in Europe and parts of Africa, the 8-60S.

FWIW a 8mm-06 or 8-60S is probably the ideal for most situations where you want a little bit more top end bullet weight than the 30-06 can provide.

The only "obsolete 8" that would be worth reviving would be the 8x64 IMHO. It knocks spots off the 318 Westley Richards AND uses .323" diameter bullets.

And for the rest there is the 8x68S or the .323 Hollis which sadly isn't a factory cartridge or rifle proposition.

Besides which if you have ever visited Westley Richards you'll pretty soon have had enough of Simon Clode and his "superior attitude".

Just as bad as his father ever was. The fruit never falls too far from the tree!

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

Besides which if you have ever visited Westley Richards you'll pretty soon have had enough of Simon Clode and his "superior attitude".

Just as bad as his father ever was. The fruit never falls too far from the tree!

Was he sober ?

(You did say "Just as bad as his father ever was")


I can't see any reason to resurect the 318WR - use the beautiful guns that are out there and go modern if you want something similar - as suggested by enfieldspares
or go the 338-06.


.

the problem is that the .338-06 isn't here.
weatherby offers one model, and thats about it?

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
the problem is that the .338-06 isn't here.
weatherby offers one model, and thats about it?

So stick a 240gn bullet in a 30.06.

It will still get the job done as it's virtually the same as the 318WR.

They were always sober, certainly nothing like thet. No it was the attitude that they were doing YOU a favour by letting you spend your money with them.

Totally unlike the attitude at Holland and Holland where even if you only wanted a box of cartridges you were their most important customer of the day.

And, to be frank, Westley was NEVER of the first rank in terms of Birmingham made shot guns - that was William Powell. Nor of the first rank on non-London made rifles that was Jeffery or Gibbs.

Having an original rifle I would surely love to see factory ammo with some serious new qualities. Hornady adding 200 fps to the typical 250 grain loading would be a terrific plus.Their newest magic mix of powder is fully capable and Loadings of 300 grain slugs at 2400 fps or more would be a lethal combo and although there is nothing wrong with reloading and using the excellent Woodleighs, there is always the allure of a factory round which has that little extra or different attribute.
I am sure other cartridges will always be enticing to the real rifle "looney" as we are sometimes called, but the real thrill for me is carrying and shooting an exquisite WR from the 20's LT series. Mine is of the take-down genus adding fire to my love of the rifle.
Yes I would buy a new rifle as long as it is developed with the historical perspectives which have added to the mysterious lethality of the .318 accelerated Express.
Frank

I am admittedly a classic cartidge fan, so I find it hilarious that folks actually say things like "the 338-06 or 8mm-06 already fill that niche, so why bother"
The fact is that both of those cartridges are attempting to fill the niche already occupied by the 318WR without adding any appreciable improvement.
IMO, the 338-06 and 8mm-06 are the result of marketing and will never have the reputation or historical significance of the 318 and had the 318 remained in production, they would be very obscure indeed.

I happen to own both a .318 and a .30-06 and although I love them both dearly, there's a whole world of difference in terms of killing power between the two. I would not hesitate to shoot the largest of animals with the .318 and as far as I'm concerned there's not much to choose between it and the 9,3x62 (another one of my favourites and a cartridge with which I have considerable experience and think thw world of).

The .318 can be tricky to reload in terms of getting the best accuracy, though, due to the Metford rifling (I suspect). I've figured mine out pretty well by now and 2 to 3 inch groups over the bench at 100 metres with the peep-sight is not that difficult on a good day.

Big animals like kudu and wildebeest really take note when that big 250-grain Woodleigh strikes them! I have also yet to recover one of those Woodleighs from any animal, large or small, and I have the highest regard for the bullet. In 2009 I shot a big blue wildebeest cow in the chest from about 60 metres. The bullet exited in front of the right back leg. Meat damage was just about zero and the animal barely made five paces before collapsing in a cloud of dust.

The .318, in my (biased!) opinion certainly deserves a new lease on life. It's one of those calibres like the 7x57, .300 H&H and 9,3x62 that's just too good to be allowed to die out. Nothing wrong with a .338-06 but I don't want one.

jvw


Interesting you say that.

I have multiple 318's and have shot a fair few Buff both large and small with them as well as with the 338WM, both factory loads but also downloaded loads.

I agree, the 318 is an emphatic killer, far better than the 338WM IMHO. I have had good kills with the 318 but not so with the 338WM.

Just my HO.

I have been hunting with a .338-06 since the 70's, and i've crawled many a mile in the alder brush hunting brown bears, with it loaded with 275 Speers. I've found that combo VERY effective on big bears, so i have no reason to change anything, including buying a 318WR.

DM

I used to own a 318 WR and I'd be happy to own another. The performance on game is amazing. IMHO it is the ultimate bushveld cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
They were always sober, certainly nothing like thet. No it was the attitude that they were doing YOU a favour by letting you spend your money with them. And, to be frank, Westley was NEVER of the first rank in terms of Birmingham made shot guns - that was William Powell. Nor of the first rank on non-London made rifles that was Jeffery or Gibbs.

Cloud is a clod, I've spoken with him a few times.
On the day I visited the factory "The Clod" was not there, the action foreman showed my what was on offer, he was polite and very helpful.
In my view the drop lock is very good, the rest of the WR products are, as enfieldspares indicates, not first rank.

As soon as I get my Zambian safari paid for, Im going to rebarrel a Ruger77 or Win 70 to 318. Just because its so damned cool.

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
the problem is that the .338-06 isn't here.

Steffen I bet that Lothar Walther could make you one.

.

quote:

I have multiple 318's and have shot a fair few Buff both large and small with them as well as with the 338WM, both factory loads but also downloaded loads.

I agree, the 318 is an emphatic killer, far better than the 338WM IMHO. I have had good kills with the 318 but not so with the 338WM.

Just my HO.

500N

First you said the 30-06 was the equal of the 318, then you said the 318 was as good as the 338-06, now this quote says that your observation is that a 33 caliber shooting a 250 gr bullet at 2300-2400 is much better than a 33 caliber shooting a 250 gr bullet at 2500-2600. I would propose that these arguments all fall in "the animal can't tell the difference" category. Most of these discussions wouldn't go on as long if they started with "Would you buy a 33 caliber rifle that shoots 250 grain bullets at 2400 fps?" As soon as the discussion mentions a most favorite or least favorite caliber, all sorts of anecdotal and opinion comes into play.

Most animals can't tell the difference, I agree.

I just found that the 338WM just doesn't seem to drop them for some reason.

Just my HO from a few shots made.

I think if you took 100 shots, the results for both would be the same.

Still like the 318 though

I think that too. With the same bullet and the same weight, the slightly higher sectional density of the 318 would equal the slightly higher velocity of the 338.

That said, I suspect that there is really more than a 200 fps difference in the real world. The 338 case has significantly more volume. I would bet the 318 really doesn't get near 2400.

The much bigger dofference is in bullet selection. With heavy bullets and heavy game, they would be close in performance. Given the large selection of lighter game bullets, the 338 would have an advantage. I can say from personal experience that the 338 with 185 to 200 gr light bullets will really put deer size game down instantly.

All this doesn't change the fact that I would buy a classic 318 in a minute. After all, I own a 425 WR. I wouldn't buy a modern one as a hunting gun; there are simply better tools out there for the job.