This was the first year I used 30'06 180gr Accubonds for hunting. I was able get 3/4" groups at 100 yards with my Tikka T3 from the bench.

I shot this 300 pound muley a few weeks ago with one 180gr Accubond at 175 yards. He was standing broad side and the bullet went in behind his right shoulder and exited behind his left shoulder. The bullet went through both lungs. As you can see in this picture there is no sign of an exit wound and the only blood I could find was coming from his mouth. There was no blood around the entrance or exit wounds. I only found the terminal injuries once I field dressed and skinned him.

So, my questions are did the Accubond open up and has anyone experienced this with an Accubond?

Last month I shot a Maral stag (asian elk) in Kazakhstan with a 200 grain accubond from a 300 RUM. The first shot was at 749 yards and the final shot was at 370 some yards. We found one perfectly mushroomed bullet. I would say it is a good bullet and tougher than the nosler BT which I have also used quite a bit on deer and wildboar.

Arjun Reddy
www.huntersnetworks.com

That was perfect bullet performance & you just hit the deer between the ribs going in & out. That is why you had no blood outside but all the blood would have been in the thorasic cavity when you field dressed it.

I had a similar experience 2 weeks ago when I shot a fallow spiker at 325 meters with 160gr Accubonds in my 280 Ack Imp. Both lungs and heart and the holes were not huge like it can be & no ribs were hit.

One other point that you rarely see in hunting articles is the effect of rib hits on game. Firstly if hit on a rib, the fine bone pieces also lacerate the lungs and cause a lot of damage. Secondly a rib hit also transfers shock to the spine & the animal drops like it was hit by lightning.

I have no doubt the AB opened up but, being bonded, it may have shed little weight and simply went through with out much expansion. Here, my 180 AB from my 30-06AI, running 3000 fps @ the muzzle hit this spike at 225 yds. You can see the entry side first, on the right, and the exit on the left. The line of blood on the entry side was simply blood dripping down.

The spike ran in a 50 yd circle, layed down and took a full 2 minutes before it layed it's head down and dies. A 180 BT would, I'm sure, caused a faster, more massive, death. The AB ruined nary any meat.







Alan

Man I think you got stellar performance from the Accubond. You did not say how far he ran but I have a feeling he didn't cover much ground. You are getting sub MOA performance from a hunting bullet and you are putting rounds in the boiler room. With the Accubond you have the benefit of a bullet that will punch through heavy bone if needed so I say you are well armed for the task at hand. Nice Muley BTW!

From my experience the heavy BT out performs the heavier AB but the lighter Accubond out performs the lighter BT.

The Bonding offsets the lower sectional density of the lighter bullet, ie: it stays together longer allowing for deeper penetration.

Conversly, this is not required when compared to the heavier ballistic tip which has adaquate mass to fully penetrate.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:One other point that you rarely see in hunting articles is the effect of rib hits on game. Firstly if hit on a rib, the fine bone pieces also lacerate the lungs and cause a lot of damage. Secondly a rib hit also transfers shock to the spine & the animal drops like it was hit by lightning.

I agree! I shot a 5x5 WT last Friday with 140gr Accubond out of my 270WSM, hit a rib going in & dropped the deer in its tracks. There was about a 30 cal hole on the exit side (exited between ribs) and very little blood drained from the animal. Consequently, the chest cavity was one solid blood clot, excellent performance from an excellent bullet!

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
From my experience the heavy BT out performs the heavier AB but the lighter Accubond out performs the lighter BT.

The Bonding offsets the lower sectional density of the lighter bullet, ie: it stays together longer allowing for deeper penetration.

Conversly, this is not required when compared to the heavier ballistic tip which has adaquate mass to fully penetrate.

That's interesting. Can you expound on the specifics like critters taken, bullets used, distances and end result? You have me curious now.

My experience is with the 225 gr AB from my 338-06 that whistled through these two guys. The grizzly spun in circles before falling over near dead with a finisher concluding it. The black just dropped at the shot. Both had decent bleeding exit wounds. Never shot a BT except from my 222.

Ranger, your 18ogr AB's are probably leaving the barrel around 2700. So, your not really putting all that much stress on that big 180gr bonded bullet when it hit your mulie. I've shot alot of critters with AB's, and I've always seen definitive signs of them opening up.

If you want a more dynamic wound, switch to the 180gr BT. Same exact bullet, just not bonded. Those 3/4" groups will probably turn into 1/2"groups, they will open a little quicker, and still retain plenty of mass for good penetration.

Accubonds are still a great bullet, especially at high velocities, or if you expect to encounter large tough bones, such as you might expect on Elk, but the large heave BT's, up to 3k perform suprisingly well.

I used 150 gr. AB's pushed to 2600 fps out of my 7x57 on deer and hogs last year. Big disapointement, little or no expansion and the deer ran too far. Hardly any better on the hogs. I really like the Ballistic Tips in this weight too from this rifle.

Quoting from NRA's American Rifleman from their May, 2004 issue:

"While other bulletmakers tout 90 percent weight retention from their bonded bullets, Nosler took a different approach. Its goal is deeper penetration, even at the sacrifice of weight retention. The problem with bonded bullets that are designed for high weight retention is that they quickly form a large frontal area that impedes penetration. Nosler designed its bullet to have about 60 to 70 percent weight retention. That obviously means that it will lose some weight. That's because it's designed to shed some of the expanded bullet material to keep the frontal area of the Accubond bullet a little smaller than some other bonded bullets. Accubond is designed for early expansion, but rather than tear completely apart as a Ballistic Tip often will, the Accubond's petals are designed to fold back tighter against the bullet shank. This makes a slightly smaller diameter mushroom to allow deeper penetration."


Sounds like it worked just like they engineered it.

I have not used the ab, but from everything that I have seen and read, I would say they are superb. I would have to say that if that mulie weighed 300 pounds he must have been dripping wet. On deer the accubond is definitely not needed, but I would use it before using the explosive bt or Hornady sst. The accubond in a smaller caliber would be a big help on big game, but on 30 caliber I think it is tougher than needed.

Good thread.

May I expand it a bit, please:
What are your experiences (experiences rather than views, please!) regarding different weights of the AB in the same caliber, e.g. .30cal 180grs v. 200grs?

I have recently bought a .30-06 rifle.
Thus far, I have been plenty pleased with the 200grs 8mm (.323") AB in my 8,2x53R @ about 2525fps.
Not liking recoil I've been thinking I might load 200grs bullets a tad slower than 180grs in the .30-06. Trying a couple of loads not long ago the old 225grs Remington Core-Locts gave mild recoil, indeed.

I'm looking for a flexible bullet for various use for game ranging from roe deer up to moose.
My main quarry is moose and wild boar - whitetail to a lesser extent. I'd like to use the same gun for PG also. The shooting distances tend to be on the short side, i.e. less than 150yds and more typically approx. 50yds.
Few bullets can handle such variety as the bullets tend to be either too hard or too soft.

- Lars/Finland

Most recently, just a few of weeks ago, the 140 gr AB from my 7x57 (mv ~2700 fps) whistled through this guy at ~150 yards. You are looking at the exit wound. At the shot he turned rather calmly and stood there. Another one went in behind the shoulder again and he dropped. His innards were toast from both shots. I like the bullet.

NICE looking rifle Boxhead!

I used a 260 gr. AccuB out of a .375 on a 6x6 bull elk last mouth @ 487 rangefinder yards. Hit low in area behind front leg, completely shredding lower 2/3 of heart. Never hit a rib bone going in or out. Blood shot rib meat on both sides covering 12-15" circle like area. He wobbled maybe 10 steps and done for.
Very accurate, I seat them out in a CZ getting 2756 fps at 20'.
I am happy with the results, but it knda ruined the ribs for BBQ.

I use AB for a season in my 25-06 (110gr) and 300wsm (150gr).

Load development was simple as my regular load for BT's proved to work just as well with the AB's.

That season I shot around 120-150 Sika, 60 Red deer, 40 Roe 50 Muntjac and 100 Fallow.

I never had such a bad season for having to shoot the deer a second time, follow up using a dog or loosing a deer altogether.

I was not at all impressed with the terminal performance of the AB on deer.

That was about 4 years ago I have not used them since and have gone back to using BT's 115gr in the .25-06 and 150gr in the 300wsm.

This year I have developed a 168gt Combined Tech BT load for the 300wsm.

quote:

That season I shot around 120-150 Sika, 60 Red deer, 40 Roe 50 Muntjac and 100 Fallow.

WOW. That sounds like a heck of a hunting season.

About usual for back then I shoot alot more Fallow and Red now and sadly hardly any Sika these days.

I have had my son using 140 gr AB's in his 270 Win for years, and he has killed a passle of deer and hogs with them. Winchester Supreme ammo shoots well under an inch with both of his guns, and the performance has been superb.

Some excellent animals in this thread!

I have swapped my .338 Win Mag from the 250gr Partitions to the 225Gr Accubonds for Elk. I really enjoy the Nosler line of bullets.

Bugglemin,
Try the 200gr BT (or BSST's now) around 3k in the .338.

Very wide, very short bloodtrails.

quote:

Originally posted by Ranger02:
This was the first year I used 30'06 180gr Accubonds for hunting. I was able get 3/4" groups at 100 yards with my Tikka T3 from the bench.

I shot this 300 pound muley a few weeks ago with one 180gr Accubond at 175 yards. He was standing broad side and the bullet went in behind his right shoulder and exited behind his left shoulder. The bullet went through both lungs. As you can see in this picture there is no sign of an exit wound and the only blood I could find was coming from his mouth. There was no blood around the entrance or exit wounds. I only found the terminal injuries once I field dressed and skinned him.

So, my questions are did the Accubond open up and has anyone experienced this with an Accubond?

Just read your results. I just posted another post about my experience with 140 AB's out of a 7x57 this w/e on whitetail deer. I'm not sold on them yet. I've shot 3 deer. One didn't leave a spot of blood for 65 yds (kindof a pain when you are looking for a deer after dark). Second, when 50+ yds before I found any blood. Then was a good bloodtrail for 150yds and then dried up. 3rd deer - put it right on the point of the shoulder and the deer floppped DRT (as they all should have in my opinion). never found the 2nd deer and it's the first deer I've lost in over 10 years. These are my first experiences with AB's. I'm being cautious and will aim for dead on shoulder from now on instead of lung shots.

I wouldn't choose a BT for Bear even though it would probably work fine. The bonded is a much better choice for obvious reasons.

Thinner skinned game do not require the attributes of a bonded bullet and that is the reference.

Using deer as the test subject our group uses BT's, Partitions, Barnes and factory fodder to kill deer every year. Actual witnessed kills from all bullets and placements the quicker killing bullet is the BT. I have never seen one get back up and run from a BT hit but have from a double lung partition hit. The deer was knocked clean off its feet from a 7mag 160 grain partition but got back up and made it to the tree line. The field autopsy revealed flooded lungs but quite obviously not devistating enough to totally incapacitate. This bullet, IMO, is not the best choice for whitetail but illustrates my point about quick expansion vs slower expansion.

Its all really common sense. Considering all bullets can kill it really is a matter of choosing the best bullet for the game. The new AB offers Partitoin type performance inside game but BT flight characteristics making it a good choice for larger/heavier game at distance.

I have been using the 110 AB in the 250AI and the 257DGR for a couple of years, the 15 deer have all been 1 shot kills with all but 1 drt, the one buck made it 30 yards before piling up. Most of the shots have been between 200-300 yards, we have recovered 4 bullets from frontal shots at the back end of the deer all have weighed around 70grs. I like shoulder shots and all the side shots have exited the other shoulder.
Accuracy has been good in both rifles. I would give a A rating to the bullet so far.

Thanks for all the responses! I've been in western PA and off the grid.

My deer went about 30 paces and died right there. The bullet went between the ribs on both sides, explaining the lack of bleeding. Although the body cavity was full of blood.

Also, I used the 180gr bullets because my 30-06 was my back-up gun for elk season. I did not have time to go back to the range and sight in with 165gr AB loads. I think next year I will use the 165gr AB.

All in all I have no real complaints. The end result is what I wanted, but I was hoping for more external blood loss/trail. I'll give the lighter bullets a try and see what happens.

You used a very strong and stout bullet, on a big deer, but a deer none the less. Obviously it worked, but what we have here is a very good example of old habits dying hard. By that I mean, heavy for caliber bullets. When smokeless cartridges came about, and up until the Partition, this was the way you went for performance. Heavy, slow, punch through.

Enter the world of super premium bullets (partitions and a-frames/grand slams being just premium). Now you have to account for different things as far as bullet weight choices. If you are going to use the super premiums STEP DOWN a weight class! It IS going to penetrate as far, if not farther, and you'll likely get more consistent performance from the bullet.

It's a hard thing for folks to let go of tradition/past, but if you are going to play with newer technology, play its rules. I bet there were quite a few people here who really hemmed and hawed about fuel injected engines and unleaded gasoline when they came about too

In the OP's example, I think the 150 or 165 AccuBonds would have been my personal choice. Likely would have expanded more due to the lower SD and the higher velocity, and left a more positive exit wound. The only time I'd personally use the 180 or 200gr .308 bullets is in one of the faster 30's, 300 Wby, 300 RUM, 30-378. MAYBE the 180's in the 300 Win Mag, but its still just a notch above the 30-06 in speed. Same with the WSM/RSAUM/RCM. I know many say the same things over and over "if I bought a magnum I want to throw the biggest bullets otherwise what is the point!" and this is true, to some effect. But when you are talking bonded and mono's, goes right out the window. Faster, flatter, longer is the game regardless of what cartridge you are shooting *for the most part*.

Heck a box of Nolser Trophy Grade 30-06 with the Accubonds is only like 26$, cheap enough to try out that weight size to see if your rifle likes em. If not, and you are not on a mixed bag hunt with elk or moose, maybe move to the Ballistic Tips or Partitions (or any old cup and core) for deer only hunts with 180's.

Ranger I totally missed your post LOL! Would have saved me 5 minutes of typing if I had read that A) this was your elk back up and B) you're going to try the 165's later.

Although truth be told, I have NO qualms carrying the 165's for elk either, that is what is loaded in my back up 308, my soon to be 30-06 FWT and I usually use 165's of some flavor in my 300's.

seems like mixed reviews to me! roger

What I am seeing/reading, as far as results go, is that the AB is killing critters. What I am not reading is consistancy and there lies the issue. One can't argue that the AB doesn't kill because it does but what can be argued is its consistency. The deer ran 30 yards then died does not reflect any better terminal performance than what can be gained over the standard partition. Why pay a premium price for lack luster performance. The good news is that the price of Ballistic Tips is down.

Go back in time a read the raving reviews of how quickly the nosler ballistic tip killed game of all sizes. There was and still is a consesus on its terminal performance on game and is one of the most imitated bullets on the market. IMHO they have not really improved upon it as far as terminal performance is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
What I am seeing/reading, as far as results go, is that the AB is killing critters. What I am not reading is consistancy and there lies the issue. One can't argue that the AB doesn't kill because it does but what can be argued is its consistency. The deer ran 30 yards then died does not reflect any better terminal performance than what can be gained over the standard partition. Why pay a premium price for lack luster performance. The good news is that the price of Ballistic Tips is down.

Go back in time a read the raving reviews of how quickly the nosler ballistic tip killed game of all sizes. There was and still is a consesus on its terminal performance on game and is one of the most imitated bullets on the market. IMHO they have not really improved upon it as far as terminal performance is concerned.

Nice summary never personally had an issue with the Nosler's Ballistic Tips terminal performance on any deer species or in any calibre I use.

So far everything I have hit with an Accubond has died very consistently. Below is a 9.3 250 grain recovered from a deer shot end for end, and an 8mm 200 grain Accubond recovered from a 224 pound boar tagged at 158 yards.

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

I am a self admitted bullet nut. I load them, test them and the shoot animals w/ them. For 35 yrs I've been a Partition man. Have one dresser w/ tested bullets on it and another w/ bullets recovered from animals. I loaded my 7 x 57 w/ 160 ABs, tested 2 of them in media. Good performance. Then shot a WT doe looking directly at me in the chest. The three bullets look like triplets.
My girlfriend killed a 180 lb cull Sat evening w/ a 257AI, 115g NAB. Broadside at 150 yds. Perfect heart/lungs, deer went straight down. NO broken ribs on entry or exit w/ a small exit hole. Massive internal damage. Very similar to a Partition. I remain a Nosler man.

They kill the big moose up here in Alaska deader than hell I know that much. Guys also been using them on Big brown bears as well with great results! I use them myself along with barnes TSX...