I bought a .300 Win mag many years ago and love it. I did however have to put a muzzle brake on it. I was about 40 pounds lighter back then and got scope eye almost every time I shot it. Well the brake made a difference and I shoot it very well. I am planning to buy a .338 Win and being I am a bit larger these days hope I don't need the brake. However I do have a bit of shoulder trouble so I might.

I have been told by many that the .300's seam to be the worst in felt recoil because it is sharper than the larger bores. I intend to load it milder at first for hunting black bear here in PA and work up to full house loads for an Elk hunt in the upcoming years.

My question is do others find the .338 to be more of a push instead of the sharp punch of the .300's I have heard of?

My own personal experience with the two (both M-70 with 26" barrels) was that the .338 Win Mag was equal in felt recoil to my .375 H&H and the .300 was a fair amount less.

Both the .375 H&H and the .338 Win Mag, while sitting at a bench, delivered a near painful amount of punishment that required me to put a sandbag between me and the rifle butt. The .300 Win Mag, while it sure woke me up wasn't nearly so punishing.

I have not shot either - but - the cure for "scope eye" is a good scope with longer eye relief mounted more forward in the mounts. Cheaper scopes have - in general - smaller eye relief.

Generally speaking a 338 and 300 share the same contour barrel on production guns. The 338 will be a bit lighter due to less material in the barrel. This may relay into a little more recoil. The 375's typically have a heavier contoured barrel and are heavier guns helping off set some of the additional recoil.
Weight (gun) is a big factor in the equation.
Browning Safaris use the same barrel contour for 7MM mag's thru 458's. The 7 mags are heavy; the 458's are light.

I have to agree with what Vapo says. IMO, the only firearms that have a push instead of a slap as far as recoil goes, are the blackpowder rifles. A light 338 WM can be quite brutal when fired from the bench in a light rifle. I don't do the sand bag thing between me and the stock. I just walk around with scope eye to show off my manhood - LOL. That was until I had one and half pounds of mercury recoil reducers added to my Tikka T3. Now it is quite pleasant to shoot from the bench. (I personally don't care for muzzle brakes - I don't care how "functional" they are)

My rem 700 in 300wm seems to wack me harder then my paddled stock Ruger in 338wm..

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Nelson:
... I intend to load it milder at first ...do others find the .338 to be more of a push instead of the sharp punch of the .300's I have heard of?

Hey Donald, You are avoiding the Heavy Recoil problem all together by beginning with mild Loads. Starting Loads for a 338WinMag equate to a 338-06 Recoil wise. And the various 200/210gr real Bullets(with Lead) will work great. I think they still make a 210gr Partition which will stop a Black Bear very well, and with not a lot of Recoil.

Depending on how long it has been since you bought the 300WinMag, you might/should be very surprised at how efficient the current generation of Recoil Pads work - amazing! They spread the impulse out just a bit longer and it makes a big "mental" difference in the perceived Recoil.

Mount the Scope as far forward as possible and get one with a bit of Eye Relief.

You have the right idea and Recoil won't be an issue.

The 338 WM has essentialy the same powder capacity as the 300 WM. Couple that with bigger heavier bullets and your gonna get more recoil than the 300.

I have a 338 wm and a 300 wsm. Neither one kicks hard in my opinion. I am 5'-8" and 150 pounds. I could shoot both all day long. My 338 wm has more of a shove to it. My 270 has more of a punch to it, but the 338 has much more barrel rise. I shot 21 rounds out of it one day. I alternated between it and my 270. I Let them cool a bit after several rounds. I shot 41 rounds total and did not notice and discomfort.

My 338 wm weighs 9 lbs-15 ounces with scope and strap. The 338 has an brake (Browning BOSS) that can be screwed on, but I only used it once and never again. I would rather have a recoil issue than that loud noise. If I couldn't shoot it without the brake, I wouldn't have it.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
That was until I had one and half pounds of mercury recoil reducers added to my Tikka T3. )

Now that is a sensible soloution! Weight can be added in a number of ways and it is an effective recoil absorber..

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:
I have a 338 wm and a 300 wsm. Neither one kicks hard in my opinion. I am 5'-8" and 150 pounds. I could shoot both all day long. My 338 wm has more of a shove to it. My 270 has more of a punch to it,

Your logic defies physics..

quote:

My question is do others find the .338 to be more of a push instead of the sharp punch of the .300's I have heard of?

No. I have a Blaser R93 with 300WSM and 338 Win mag interchangeable barrels...same external contour, so the 338 barrel is a trifle lighter due to the bigger bore size...everything else is exactly the same--scope, rings, mounts, forestock, action and buttstock, barrel length, except for the little extra weight of the 3 rounds of 338 ammo in the magazine...total weight about 8 pounds.

The 338 does kick more as would be expected from the recoil formula which uses bullet + powder weight, speed of the bullet @ muzzle and gun weight. I never noticed a push rather than a sharp punch. Not even when I changed to the 375 H&H barrel and compared to the 338 Win mag.

Sure there is an increase in recoil as the bore diameter of these magnums increases but the 'type' of recoil feels the same to my cheek and shoulder.

Download to a starting load with light for caliber bullet for least recoil. You'll get a little more of a rainbow trajectory but your body won't get punished as much when shooting off the bench.

Once you get a bruin or wapiti in your sights, you'll never feel the recoil no matter what power level you've loaded for.

I have shot the superb .338WM for 43 years and load mine with 250 gr. bullets to safe max. velocities. I often have shot 40+ rounds in a few hours plus 30 rounds from one of my .375 H&H rifles and about as much from lighter rifles.

I do not find the .338WM to be unpleasant in recoil and used to comfortably shoot a .300H&H with the old steel Winchester buttplate loaded with 200s. Recoil is mostly mental and not difficult until I pass the .375H&H level, but, I am built to take it and find muzzle blast more onerous.

A .338WM should weigh about 8.5 lbs and then it is not at all bad, if you hold it correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:
I have a 338 wm and a 300 wsm. Neither one kicks hard in my opinion. I am 5'-8" and 150 pounds. I could shoot both all day long. My 338 wm has more of a shove to it. My 270 has more of a punch to it,

Your logic defies physics..

Theory does not always equal reality. I am not the only one who has shot my rifles and have had the same opinion. I would be happy to let you try it.

My 300 win definitely had much more of a slap in its recoil than does my .338 win or 338-06.

I sold the 300 win because my jaw hurt after 20 rounds off the bench.

Never had that problem with the 338 or for that matter, the 375.

Make sure the rifle fits and put a good quality modern recoil pad on it.

Good shooting.

It's clear we have different opinions about this subject.....maybe what we're reading is a difference in stock design more so than a matter of physics.

Why would you need a 338wm for? 300wm is plenty for black bear and elk. A 9,3*62 is easyer on the shoulder and a real big game caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
It's clear we have different opinions about this subject.....maybe what we're reading is a difference in stock design more so than a matter of physics.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
Why would you need a 338wm for? 300wm is plenty for black bear and elk. A 9,3*62 is easyer on the shoulder and a real big game caliber.

My .300 has recently been set up with a custom curly maple thumbhole stock and only goes to the range or hunting deer in the fields where I shoot off a table in good weather. It has served me well for 20 years.

As for the .338 it is just a caliber I have always wanted. I know there are other ways I could go but fact is for the money I can't build a .338-06, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 as cheap as I can get a Howa or Wby. Vanguard in .338.
I actually would like to build a 35 Whelen in the future but I have some important house projects that must come first.

As for eye relief I know about that. My .300 wears a Leupold. However I did get the brake on it first. This rifle will wear a Leupold or Nikon.

I haven't shot the 338wm but have shot several 300wm's and found a big difference with recoil. An old Parker Hale 300 would hurt like hell, the ruger 77 was better but still pretty stout and the rem 700 titaniun in 300RUM was the easiest of the 3. I think stock design is a major factor in felt recoil, along with the quality of the recoil pad.

if compared in identical guns both fitted with a good pad the differnce is not enough to talk about. If you can handle a 300 with 200 grain bullets you surely can handle a 338 with 210s.

338WM in one of those old Rubber stocked Ruger's was a bitch until lead etc was put in the stock.

Assuming identical rifles I doubt you would notice the difference.

quote:

338WM in one of those old Rubber stocked Ruger's was a bitch until lead etc was put in the stock.

A friend of mine own one of these with a black light weight Zytal stock. The recoil is surely noticeable and he loads 250 grainers @ 2600 fps. The whole character of this rifle can be changed by replacing this Zytal stock with a well designed wooden stock with a decelerator recoil pad - Modern Classic style stock with an all in weight of at least 8 lbs.

Warrior

My .338s have recoiled considerably more than my .300s. Actually I'll swear that apparent recoil is higher than my .375s as well.

My 7 pound Kimber .338 with 275 grain A-Frames is a spirited little guy in the recoil department. At least it's over quickly.

I think you would be very happy with the wthby vanguard in .338 win.

I bought one for my son a couple of years ago and he loves it...very accurate.

He found a sweet load of 250 speer GS over 73 grs of RL19 to be just the ticket for everything here in Montana..

Cheers

Folks keep talking about their tricked-out .338s that don't kick. Simple truth, if your .300 was tricked out in the same manner, it would have less recoil that your .338.
You can feel a difference in recoil with a 30-06 shooting 180s versus 165s. Same rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

338WM in one of those old Rubber stocked Ruger's was a bitch until lead etc was put in the stock.

A friend of mine own one of these with a black light weight Zytal stock. The recoil is surely noticeable and he loads 250 grainers @ 2600 fps. The whole character of this rifle can be changed by replacing this Zytal stock with a well designed wooden stock with a decelerator recoil pad - Modern Classic style stock with an all in weight of at least 8 lbs.

Warrior

When I first got into shooting, I thought I'd like those Ruger's - until I held one - didn't like it, went Winchester, never looked back until I had to use the one described above as belonging to someone else.

Wasn't too bad in using it because of the lead but still didn't like the fit / feel etc.

.

Interesting difference of opinion here.

My own experience has been with a Springfield custom in 308 Norma Mag, a push feed M70 in 300 Win Mag with a factory synthetic stock, and a .338 Win Mag pre64 Win M70 custom in a McMillan synthetic stock.

I tend to shoot heavies (180 and 200 gr projectiles) in the 300s and mediumss (225 gr projectiles) in the .338 Win Mag.

Let me first note that none of these rifles have severe recoil. But I have noted that the 300s are sharper in recoil than the .338 Win Mag.

Frankly, I prefer to shoot the .338 ... but that may be because it is a very well done rifle that is quite accurate (2" at 300 yards).

I believe that the 300wm is an extremely sharp felt recoil, in my brother's Remingtom and my friends Sako.

That being said I would rather shoot my M70 338wm or my 300 weatherby Vanguard or my friends 338wm Ruger.

I believe much has to do with the design of the stock also.

I can tell you from my experience with the above mentions firearms the 300wm hurt me the best.

About the most painful rifle I ever shot was a friends Ruger with the canoe stock. That thing was absolutely brutal. Scared me so much I put off building a 338 for years.
Finally put a Ruger together for myself and bedded it in a McMillan stock built to my LOP.
Even with fairly stiff loads it does not have any more bite than any 300 Win Mag I've owned.
Felt recoil depends on three things, stock fit, stock fit, and STOCK FIT!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
My own personal experience with the two (both M-70 with 26" barrels) was that the .338 Win Mag was equal in felt recoil to my .375 H&H and the .300 was a fair amount less.

Both the .375 H&H and the .338 Win Mag, while sitting at a bench, delivered a near painful amount of punishment that required me to put a sandbag between me and the rifle butt. The .300 Win Mag, while it sure woke me up wasn't nearly so punishing.

I am the same as you.

I have never gone with the "push" thing. Can't see it. By the time the bullet gets to the muzzle the rifle will move back about 1/10" and then the rocket part adds the next bit and the rifle would barely move in that time. So after the force on the rifle is finished being applied the gun would be lucky to have moved back a 1/5", bareley enough to crease your shirt. From then on it is a free projectile.

Personally I think the "push" is mental as it kind of fits the lower velocity. Also the shooting attitude is different with 375s and 458s to something like the 300 Magnums

I have had 300 Winchester, 338 and 375 in identical rifles and at the ssme time and no doubt the 375 with 300 grainers has the most recoil. Although from an overall point of view I find the 300 a bit worse than the 338 and because of the blast and the fact the 338's recoil is not that much greater.

I have a switch bbl. Rem. 700 with many different bbls, all of the same countour. Yes, a .308" hole is smaller than a .338", but that's the only difference in weight.

I built this gun as is, to test bullets, as i was designing and swageing copper jacketed bonded core bullets, LONG before it became fashionable like it is today.

Long story short, 300 Win. Mag. with the SAME WEIGHT bullets as the .338 Win. Mag., had the SAME felt recoil. Put heavier bullets in the .338, it had more felt recoil.

DM

I think recoil is both somewhat subjective and varies with stock design. Some folks are just more or less recoil tolerant than others. It isn't good or bad it just is.

With that disclaimer out of the way...

I shoot a customized Model 70 in 338wm and don't find the recoil to be of note. I shoot 250 grn Noslers at about 2600fps. I do not own a 300 but various hunting partners do and I have shot their rifles at the range a fair amount. The 300's have been in a Weatherby Vanguard, a Browning A bolt, a 700, and a Parker Hale.

I experience the 300 wm recoil as more of a "punch" and the 338wm as more of a "shove".

The 300's are pretty much stock and mine wears a Macmillan hunter stock with a 1" decelerator pad. This may be part of it. IIRC the Parker Hale was the nastiest of the lot for kick.

I think if you can shoot a 300 you can shoot a 338.

Where the 338 really kicks is with 275 or 300 grain bullets.

Other than that the 338 is very manageable especially for a reloader.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Folks keep talking about their tricked-out .338s that don't kick. Simple truth, if your .300 was tricked out in the same manner, it would have less recoil that your .338.
You can feel a difference in recoil with a 30-06 shooting 180s versus 165s. Same rifle.

My 338 is not tricked out. It is a Browning A-Bolt and I don't use the brake.

Recoil is such a subjective thing. Mathematically a .338 has to have more recoil if everything stays the same. I have a .338WM in an old FN commercial action with a McMillan stock. It fits me better than any rifle I own and as far as felt recoil is very comfortable to shoot. The last .338 I had before this was a factory Sako in the early 1980's and it was a beast to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Folks keep talking about their tricked-out .338s that don't kick. Simple truth, if your .300 was tricked out in the same manner, it would have less recoil that your .338.
You can feel a difference in recoil with a 30-06 shooting 180s versus 165s. Same rifle.

My 338 is not tricked out. It is a Browning A-Bolt and I don't use the brake.

My point, quite simply, is that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, the .338 will have a greater felt recoil than the .300.
I DON'T CARE what you're shooting, if you were to replace the .338 barrel with a .300 barrel, the felt recoil would be less.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
My point, quite simply, is that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, the .338 will have a greater felt recoil than the .300.
I DON'T CARE what you're shooting, if you were to replace the .338 barrel with a .300 barrel, the felt recoil would be less.

Like i said in my last post, i have a "switch bbls 700 Rem.", so all things ARE nearly identical, and with the SAME WEIGHT BULLETS, felt recoil is the same.

DM

FWIW, I have owned several of both, including nearly identical Sako AVs in 300 Win and 338. with bullets weighing 180-200 for the 300 and 200-225 for the 338, I can't tell the difference between the two.

Lou