If we were to load a 7mm08 or 7x57 to its optimum with tenatious and ballisticaly efficient bullets like a Barnes tsx 140gn (2900fps) how would it compare to say a std load 7 remmag 160gn load with average grade bullet like std PMC or Win powerpoint or similar at(2960pfs)? do you see any scientific or great field difference?

I would compare both cartridges with the same 140gr tsx which will work fine on game from deer, to elk, to moose.In that case the 7mmremmag will easily produce 3200fps or more which gives it a flatter trajectory and more energy than the 7mm-08.The 7mm-08 is a very good cartridge,but it is not the equal of the 7mmremmag.

You'd get closer to the 7mm mag by starting with a 280 rather than a 7mm-08.

You can gain a great deal at longer ranges with ballisticly efficient bullets. They can easily gain you a couple hundred fps at 400 yds which is more than the difference between the 7-08 and 280, comparing with a poorly efficient bullet can make up the difference between the 7-08 and 7 Mag at some range.

I wouldn't rank the 140 7mm, nor the TSX in any weight close to the top of ballistic efficiency though. Bullets like the 150 Scirocco, 160 AccuBond, 154 InterBond, 162 SST/A-Max, etc are what I'd look to in the 7-08. You can get better if you go heavier, but they start to become impractical in the 7-08.

But in the end, whatever bullet you choose for the 7-08, you could also choose for the 7 Mag...and shoot it much faster. I know that's not what you are meaning with the comparison though.

The question is...is the 7-08 cut with a throat long enough to accomodate bullets weighing more than 150 grains? I'll bet not, and the same would hold true for the magazine as well. There is only one other place to make room that I can think of -steal it from the powder space. The propellant loss would sacrifice any long range capability one is looking for.
Just a guess on my part...I don't own a 7-08, however, there is no comparison between the 7-08 and the 7 mag, none. At its best, the 7-08 might come close to the 280 if both sre shooting light bullets. I like to think of the 7-08 as an excellent chambering for a featherweight rifle.

This is the oldest parlor trick on the internet:

Compare quoted "High-Energy" and "Light Magnum" factory loads to 'regular' belted-magnum factory loads, then pronounce the standard cartridge as near-equal, equal, or superior to the bigger cartridge. We had one fellow make this assumption recently by comparing HE 30-06 loads to standard 300 Win. Mag. loads, then pronouncing the '06 as the equivalent of the 300.

The truth is, case capacity still counts. The HE loads aren't just available for the standard cartridges, but also for the belted-mags. Comparing apples to apples, the belted-mags still win by a comfortable margin. Handload both cartridges to their full potential, and for the sake of your comparison the 7mm Rem. Mag. will easily eclipse the 7mm-08.

Try as they might, no one has yet found a way to make a yact that measures 50' on the inside but only 20' on the outside......

AD

quote:

We had one fellow make this assumption recently by comparing HE 30-06 loads to standard 300 Win. Mag. loads, then pronouncing the '06 as the equivalent of the 300.

And in the case of 7-08 it would even be more like comparing a 308 Win with the 300WM.

Two very different cartridges with very different purposes. With an extreme loading the 7mm08 can produce decent speed in an long barrel, but in my opinion one should judge a cartridge by what it is really good at, not what it might be able to do on a good day.

I am very pleased with my 7mm08 but when I bought it I did not choose between a 7mm08 and a 280 (and did certainly not see a 7mmRM as an alternative) but between .243, 7mm08 or 308Win.

Regards,
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
The question is...is the 7-08 cut with a throat long enough to accomodate bullets weighing more than 150 grains? I'll bet not, and the same would hold true for the magazine as well. There is only one other place to make room that I can think of -steal it from the powder space. The propellant loss would sacrifice any long range capability one is looking for.
Just a guess on my part...I don't own a 7-08, however, there is no comparison between the 7-08 and the 7 mag, none. At its best, the 7-08 might come close to the 280 if both sre shooting light bullets. I like to think of the 7-08 as an excellent chambering for a featherweight rifle.

With a 150 gr. Scirocco you're at the upper limit as to the 7mm-08 in terms of throat and magazine. Your last sentence is where the 7mm-08 excels.

I,ll make it easier for everybody by restructuring the question.
If you had a shot at an Elk at an estimated 250yds,and you had two guns to choose from,
-7mm08 140tsx@2900fps
-7mRemMag 160 winchester powerpoint or simlilar factory load with average quality bullet@2960fp
which would you choose and why?? Please dont reply with what you idealy would like to have eg: 160gntsx in 7mmMag at 3000fps. or asking if the 7mm08 is long throated,or what the magazine box length is,or whether it is atrick question,or what the optimum bullet is for the 7-08, etc.Please just attempt to answer the given cenario.


"why is it some guys manage to spend their life pissing everywhere but in the bowl."

I would take a 7mm Mag wih 160gr. Partitions over anything smaller every time. Velocity isn't everything, the extra mass equals momentum and energy to displace fluids and tissue. 7mm-08 is a good round, but I wouldn't use it for elk or moose...

Hello MickeyB welcome ,but you still have not answered the specific given question. unless you consider the partition an average quality bullet???

I'll take the 7 Remington Magnum every time.
Why:
-of all the 7m/m calibres offered, one can choose from the biggest selection of factory ammo;
-it will always be faster than the others; (excluding wonders like the STW)
-it picks up where the 7X57 and 280 left off;
-it offers the best performance with tolerable recoil;
-it offers the handloader the best/biggest bullet selection outside of 30 calibre, and has the power to drive them fast and flat.
The 7m/m Remington magnum IMO is the only usefull sub 30 calibre magnum going. True, there are others like the 270 Weatherby, but they come at a price.

quote:

Hello MickeyB welcome ,but you still have not answered the specific given question.

Actually nobody did because in most peoples opinion the question is not a valid one as asked.

Yes

The 7mm mag will deliver more energy at all ranges with any bullet weight,the biggest factor will be how the bullet actually performs.

Having stepped down from the rem mag to the 7mm-08 I did not notice a great deal of difference in killing performance out to about 200 yards but after that the mag is definately supperior in this reguard.

Alot of this boils down to bullet choice with both carts as with some bullets the 7mm-08 actually kills better than the mag some of the time at close range.

The 7mm mag handles heavier bullets & longer ranges much better than the 7-08,the 7-08 will do it well at close/medium range or longer if the game is smaller & your aim good.

Stubble jumper,

Dont be a d**k head all your life,give yourself a break,take at least one day off.

quote:

Dont be a d**k head all your life,give yourself a break,take at least one day off.

Actually,I am not very good at being a d**k head.Would you care to give me some pointers based on your extensive experience.

My point is that to do a valid comparison of cartridges,you either use available factory loads in both cases or handloads,and use equivalent bullets in each cartridge.Judging from the fact that the other people responding to this thread did not answer your question exactly as specified,they don't think it is valid either.

I'll bite. Based on the info in the first question there would be no logical difference.

Hopefully end of discussion for about 3-4 weeks when someone else tries a loaded question.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
I,ll make it easier for everybody by restructuring the question.
If you had a shot at an Elk at an estimated 250yds,and you had two guns to choose from,
-7mm08 140tsx@2900fps
-7mRemMag 160 winchester powerpoint or simlilar factory load with average quality bullet@2960fp
which would you choose and why??

Given those two choices in exactly the same rifle prolly the 7-08. The 7mag isn't exactly a big kicker but I would shoot the 7-08 better.

At 250 yds I wouldn't be trying trick shots like Texas Heart or neck shots so penetration would be adequate for the remaining shots I would be comfortable taking at that range.

quote:

Dont be a d**k head all your life,give yourself a break,take at least one day off.

I thought this discussion was by civilized and decent people. I was clearly wrong. It looks like it was a mistake to try and give a serious reply. I will avoid Woodjack's questions henceforth.

Just for fun, I will answer the question as posed.
If you can get 2900fps out of your 7mm-08 and had a premium 140g in it, and your range was 250yds, I would take the 7mm-08 over the 7mag.
I think the 160 cup&core is inferior to a good premium in a lighter weight, and marginally slower velocity. At 250yd the velocity of the 7mag bullet would have slowed enough to properly expand and hopefully hold together, but is it realistic to go elk hunting with your Walmart ammo and take that chance? Maybe if you get to go all the time. I kind of liked the performance of my ex 7mm-08 with 140g Partitions @ 2840fps.
So, there you have a direct answer......but really both calibers have lots of premium ammo made for them and that would change the answer completely.