Sorry guys. I own both 7-08's and a 7x57. I bought the 7x57 just for the reason of all the bullshit one would hear about the superiority of the 7x57 over the 7-08 and vice versa etc, etc. Anyone that thinks there's a dimes worth of difference in the two is eaten up with nostalgia or dumbass, whichever. Either one is the most nearly perfect cartridge for all hunting east of the big river and pretty much all of it west of the river too.

Yes this is the Sellier and Belloit load. SPCE stands for soft point cutting edge, it's a really strange looking bullet with what looks like an extra ring of metal about 1/2 way down the exposed bullet. It cuts a very nice clean round hole on entrance, does all kinds of nasty stuff inside, then leaves a gaping exit wound. The Axis and Dall sheep I shot with it were heart/lung shots and I still got the same expansion and exit wounds even though the distance varied considerably.That woud make you think it might not be quite tough enough but on the Sika it penetrated directly through both shoulders and apparantly held together.

Got to chime in in favor of the 7x57. With that said I have nothing against the 7-08 or the 260, and also have to tip my cap to the 6.5 swede, and .257 roberts on the lighter side. All are about as good as it gets. Granted they are good "all around" rounds. Some others will shoot a little flatter, or hit a little harder, but come on, is there anything that is really only a marginal improvment over the real world performance of these great old rounds! (No!)



I use a 6.5 swede with a longer barrel and shorter barreled 7x57. No problem killing anything. I have a 300WM too and it doesn't kill 'em any more dead!



I am not recoil shy at all, but I do have to say, that shooting a few boxes of the 300 WM at the range cures my itch to shoot it! I can shoot .303 brit, 6.5, and 7x57 all darn day.

I see the 7x75 as the lightest recoiling caliber that I would hunt any animal in the world with...That sez a lot for it IMO...

I am just waiting on a Krieger barrel blank to rebarrel a Win. M70 in 7X57.............I truly can't wait!

Huntr

(Edit) Well, my fault for posting a reply before I scanned the whole thread. I hope you enjoy shooting the 7x57mm. It's indeed a good one - especially if you load your own. HEAVY bullets sure do work well in the little 7mm. Chris Becker wrote about hunting in Africa and in his article CALIBRES FOR THE BUSHVELD, he wrote this about the 7x57.

Most of the shots on game were taken under 100 yards with some out to 150 to 200 yards.





"7 x 57 mm with a 175 gr bullet @ 2,350 fps

Here we have a bigger case with more powder capacity that can push a heavier bullet at our required velocity. Calibre choice should always be based on the size and weight of the animal to get a more equitable match. This load is known for sterling performance on kudu size animals and it is little wonder that it is still today one of the most popular calibres in South Africa. Some bullet makers like PMP and Rhino provide 170 grain bullets instead; close enough. The 7 mm Rem Mag is too fast at 2,860 fps for the bush and bullet failure is common on the larger antelope species. "



My first reply was:



BB, let me suggest you follow your second idea and get the 30-06 instead. I assure you, you'll never regret the choice and the rifle will be worth more to your grandchildren as well.



I've been making comparisons with Remington's NEW Managed Recoil 30-'06 load and some of the other over the counter 30-'06 loads recently. I don't write all that well, but if you try, I bet you can follow what I'm saying here....



When you dig down into the numbers of the new Remington 30-'06 Managed Recoil cartridge and compare them to more familiar over the counter Remington Express loads, you begin to understand how clever Remington has applied their newest "Managed Recoil" Technology. The muzzle energy of the (125gr) Managed Recoil load is basically the same as the regular (165gr) Express Load, measured @ 200 yards. How do these numbers add up if you include a high intensity (Light Magnum) 30-'06 load in the mix?



I read about a similar application over a year ago when I came across the NEWS from H&H about their Magnum Cartridges and the newest addition to the family.



http://www.african-hunter.com/new_h&h_cartridges.htm



"With the .375 H&H as base level, the .400 H&H has 20% more energy, and the .465 H&H has 20% more energy than the .400 H&H.



Holland's design aims to extend the muzzle energy thusly:



The .400 H&H carries the muzzle energy of the .375 H&H to 100 yards;

The .465 H&H carries the muzzle energy of the .400 H&H to 100 yards; and

The .465 H&H carries the muzzle energy of the .375 H&H to 200 yards."



Perhaps with these criteria in mind, we can see a three step progression of power between the BASE Remington 30-'06 Managed Recoil loads, standard Express Loads and other manufacturers' "Light Magnum" loads or Safari Loads, etc... Looks like it is a fact.



The 165gr Remington Express takes the muzzle energy of the Managed Recoil load out to 200 yards, while the 165gr SST Hornady Light Mag moves the power level out to 400 yards! Not the perfect steps of power progression of the H&H, but at considerably less expense - JUST SINGLE CALIBER!



30-'06 Comparison Loads



Remington Managed Recoil = 1964ft/lbs @ Muzzle



Remington Express 165gr = 2872ft/lbs @ Muzzle, 2352ft/lbs @ 100 yards & 1909ft/lbs @ 200 yards.



Hornady 30-'06LM SST 165gr = 3633ft/lbs Muzzle, 3170ft/lbs @ 100, 2755ft/lbs @ 200, 2385ft/lbs @ 300, 2057ft/lbs @ 400 yards.





I don't know if other calibers can make this large a step in power or not, but it would be interesting to examine the ballistics for the other Managed Recoil loads and find out... There's just a small difference in the standard 7x57 load and the Managed Recoil 7x57.



I got the Hornady figures from this link:



http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product/hornady/horndes/lh.htm



Remington's Ballistics Comparison is on this link: http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm



You can compare the Managed Recoil cartridges to Remington's other standard loads on the above link.



Looks like the ol' 30-'06 has never, ever offered so many different power levels in over the counter ammunition in its History. With this in mind, it's more versatile than ever and still the most popular North American hunting cartridge.



GOOD LUCK!

Gowge,
I agree the 06 is one fine round, never a better one has come down the road, and I cannot argue your opinnion, just your reasoning..

As to your energy comparisons, well energy is garbage collecting in the bowles of gun magazines, a standard brought about by some gun pundant that had way too much time on his hands..it means zilch..

As a comparison the 220 Swift with a 40 gr. bullet has the same energy as most Nitro express calibers??

As soon as it cools a bit down here I am going to try Hornady's 175 grain spire point on some of the more truculant feral hogs that are raging about Maypearl Tx. I think I am getting around 2400 fps out of my 19 inch barrelled 7x57 and I do believe this bullet will both penetrate and expand at this velocity. It happens to be the most accurate bullet in this rifle too. I would load the RN's but they seem to be unavailable in my area. I did find some 154 RN's that someday will be part of a similar experiment.

"As to your energy comparisons, well energy is garbage collecting in the bowles of gun magazines, a standard brought about by some gun pundant that had way too much time on his hands..it means zilch.."

Amen! brother. Quite eloquently put too.
Russ

These tales of how the same cartridge that was capable 100 years ago has become woefully inadequate today are as entertaining as the 100 year old tales.

.

I'll bet anyone dollars to donuts I can leave a 7-08 in the dust with my long throated Brno 22 7x57..With one powder H414 my max load for a 160 gr. Nosler gets 2960 FPS, I can get 3200 FPS with a 130 gr. Speer, I get 2633 FPS with a 175 gr. bullet that I seat half way to the cannalure, looks like a no. 2 pencil and for the record I have gotten a full 2700 FPS but brass needed triming about every other loading so I backed of a bit...

A properly set up 7x57 will shoot right along with a 30-06, but one must have a 06 magazine box with a matching throat such as the Brnos have, and H414 is about the only powder that will accomplish this...

I stand by my energy figures from the point of view that I was using it to make a point, it may not be exact but a 220 swift has about 4000 lbs of energy, and so does a 404 or 416...

I believe that penitration is number one in killing power, that equates to sectional density, whatever you can add to that is just iceing on the cake and this applies especially to the big animals that are immune to "shock" for all practical purposes...destruction of lungs, heart, and the stoppage of oxygen to the brain is what kills animals..Energy is for folks that read too many gun magazines IMO....