Hi guys I'm new here . I have a question I shoot a 7mm with a Winchester silver tip ad don't get many pass thrus on deer so no blood trails . Been looking at the Berger vdl hunting or the game king in the 160s what do y'all think . Thanks

For pass throughs it's hard to beat the Barnes bullets.

Chris, what 7mm are you shooting?

7mm rem mag encore

Hornady 154's should pass through with a good blood trail.

+1 on the Barnes

Don't know about the Silver Tips, (what weight) but any good 160gr bullet ought to give you two holes. Also, any good 160gr bullet shouldn't leave you much of a tracking job if'n you hit them anywhere near right.

The 7mm Rem. Mag. with 160 grain Partitions has probably accounted for more elk in northern Alberta than all others combined. Seems like everyone I knew had one when I lived out there.

If you want reliable pass throughs, every time, regardless of shooting angle, regardless of whether you hit bone, use monometal bullets.

+2 for Barnes.

160gr accubond

Something to consider is the distance at which you are shooting deer at. Most of the animals I've shot at close range, 150yrds or less, with ballistic tip bullets didn't get pass throughs, but didn't go very far at all.

If your shooting allows for bullet impacts to be 2000fps or greater I'd say any of the Barnes bullets would be tough to beat. If you are shooting at ranges where bullet impacts fall below 2000fps I'd go with the Nosler Accubond.

Cobra hit the nail on the head. Nosler Partitions are all you need to know about magic bullets.

I used to shoot Nosler BT's in my 7mm Mag and they never would pass through. I would always find fragments scattered in the chest cavaity. While I never lost a deer with them the meat damage was excessive. I shot one nice buck at a downward angle from a treestand and the tenderloins were bloodshot so I quit using them.

I believe the Silvertips are like the BT's and do not have bonded cores. I like the Berger VLD's for their accuracy but they are designed to fragment as well. The Hornady SST is also in this group.

The monometals like Barnes hold together best with highest weight retention. The Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame would be next best. Then you have the bonded cores like Nosler Accubond and Hornady Interbond. Deer are not that tough and any of these bullets will be more than capable of creating an exit wound.

Your gun will tell you what it likes best. Once you find the accuracy and consistency you are looking for the last group of bullets will do the job. My rifles love the Barnes TTSX and I am very satisfied with their accuracy. I am not trying to sell you Barnes bullets but I can highly recommend them from the performance they have given me. Best of luck finding the right bullet and....Welcome aboard.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris-37:
Hi guys I'm new here . I have a question I shoot a 7mm with a Winchester silver tip ad don't get many pass thrus on deer so no blood trails . Been looking at the Berger vdl hunting or the game king in the 160s what do y'all think . Thanks

168 VLD will work fine. Try the 150 Swift Scirocco. It is one very tough bullet and I've yet to have one not pass through whatever I shot with it.

I'm also a big fan of the TSX/TTSX bullets. Always pass through. The nice thing about the Barnes bullets is that their lighter weight projectiles can replace heavier wt lead bullets and have equal or superior penetration but fly flatter. Ex. my bro and I use the little 110 pill in our 270s for deer. The bullet is as long as typical lead core 130 weight bullets.

quote:

If your shooting allows for bullet impacts to be 2000fps or greater I'd say any of the Barnes bullets would be tough to beat.

There are monometal bullets available that will expand reliably on deer from 1600fps impacts.

Like Nosler Partitions, they will mushroom easily and when highly stressed, throw the front section to allow the shaft to penetrate deeply. That is why they kill so well.

Unlike lead core bullets, copper monos will not give up the fight when bone is hit. The shaft section will remain intact and keep on trucking. Unlike lead core bullets, if the front section shears off, they lose only about 15% weight instead of 40% or more.

Now you know more about the group of magic bullets, as some people call the bullets they can't quite figure out.

Everyone that has a crow for sale will swear their's is the blackest.

Yep, and some will not be able to tell the difference between shades that are obvious.

The question was about the Berger VLD. He was not asking for opinions on monometels, Nosler Partitions, Swifts, etc.

quote:

Been looking at the Berger vdl hunting or the game king in the 160s what do y'all think

I think.........

i think winchester makes a crappy cxp-ii bullet thats too soft and it just comes apart in the animal use the cxp -iii

The Gameking in 160 may not be much different on close shots. The ProHunter version from Sierra does seem a little tougher than the Gameking though on deer in 160 I don't think it would matter.
I shot a Mulie at just under 200 yards with a 140 Gameking from my 7mm RM and shot through the chest twice. The insides were jello.

I have not tried Berger VLD's. Nate

I find it bizzare that you cant get a pass through on a deer with a 7mmRM. I used to shoot that and repeatedly got pass thrus with nothing more than 145 gn Speer hot cores. Not exactly known for being the toughest bullet around.

I have heard both horror stories and grandiose praise of silvertips, never used them myself though. I would think that any premium bullet will get er done, I also liked using Speer Mag tips with my 7 mag. But a typical cup and core of 150 gns or better should be plenty for a deer. Are you taking shoulder shots or what?

Chris - just don't swing the pendulum too far in the other direction - too hard!

I haven't ever shot the Barnes, so I can't comment on their on-game performance. Most people who have rave about what they do inside the chest cavity. And, as everyone has noted, they will nearly always give you exits.

Now, for the bonded cores...here's what most believe is softest to hardest:

- Hornady Interbond
- Nosler Accubond
- Swift Scirroco (we could argue the Nosler is harder...)
- Trophy Bonded; Tip & No tip

I've shot deer wiht the Accubond, Scirroco, and Trophy Bonded no-tip. All in .270 wcf; distances from 25 yards to 250 yards

Trophy Bonded always exited.
Scirroco alwyas exited & had more apparent trauma.
Accubond exits about 1/2 the time & has the most truama.

So, for what my small data sample is worth (it's just anectodal, mind you), that's what I've observed.

friar

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
The question was about the Berger VLD. He was not asking for opinions on monometels, Nosler Partitions, Swifts, etc.

He mentioned VLDs and Gamekings, then ended with "what do ya'll think?"

So I answered what I thought, which excluded Gamekings, but included the VLD.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
The question was about the Berger VLD. He was not asking for opinions on monometels, Nosler Partitions, Swifts, etc.

He mentioned VLDs and Gamekings, then ended with "what do ya'll think?"

So I answered what I thought, which excluded Gamekings, but included the VLD.

I've never used a VLD in anything so no comment. I have used the Game King and although I'm not all that fond of boat tail bullets, they've always worked for my in my .270.
The last animal I took with the GK was an antelope at 75 yards. Bullet bewteei the last three ribs and exited between the neck and right shoulder. The antelope ran in a very tight half circle and died. I like the 150 gr. bullets in the .270 and my load does 2930 FPS ai the muzzle. I expected to see a nasty mess inside the goat but no so, AFAIK, thet bullet may still be flying. That bullet had to pas through wahat? Maybe a foot and a half of animal? Exit would was maybe an inch and a half at the most. My point was that bullet was still moving out pretty darn good at the 75 yard mark so I would think that a Game King in the 160 gr. weight range would work just fine for deer in a 7MM Mag. of any type. I've shot lots of deer over the years and Sierra bullets have never failed me. I can't say that about some of the vaunted premium bullets. maybe it was just bad luck.
On the monometals, I've only used them in two cartridges. I tried the 100 gr. TSX in my .257 Robt. and while accuracy is not the greatest, they do fall into my standard level of being adequate on game. The only thing shot with it so far is a 14" thick pine tree. We'd set up a can and paced off 100 yards to test and see if the gun was still sighted in. It had just gotten knocked down and landed on the scope. We shot at the adult beverage can set up on a branch that allowed the an to rest against the trunk. First shot the can didn't budge. Same with shot #2. On the third shot the can jumped a bit and fell to the ground. You could cover the groups with a dime. We looked the tree over and all three bullets had exited the other side. I don't think I have any doubts as to whether the 100 gr. TSX will penetrate or exit for that matter on any deer sized game and possibly even bigger game.
I did a cow elk hunt in New Mexico in 2010. I took my .35 Whelen loaded with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. The elk was quartering slightly to the left when I shot and the bullet hit just behind the short ribs on the left side and exited between the right shoulder and neck and at impact Ms. Elk went bang/flop DRT. Never saw an animal go down so fast as so hard in all my 50 plus years of hunting. gain, that bullet still might be truckin' through the woods. Shot taken at 150 yards BTW.
I have had the Nosler Partition in .30 caliber penetrate on broadside shots.
I have seen the 140 gr. Noslet ballistic tips blow up on a small deer's rib bone and possibly failed to penetrate. That deer was lost. In all fairness to Nosler, these were early BTs when they still came in 100 round boxes. They seem to be a tad fragile.
I have a supply of 120 and 140 gr. Barnes TSX bullets to try in my 7x57's and a .280 Remington. Just have to find the time to load some up and test. Dunno how the 120 gr. TSX will shoot regarding accuracy in your rifle but the 140's should just about be perfect at top velocity. One thing is for sure. I'd be willing to bet it would pass clean through from arsehole to appetite should such a shot be needed.
Paul B.

The VDL hunting bullets from Berger are more fragile than their target bullets, not less. I think you're going the wrong way if you want for-sure exits. OTOH, the Berger hunting bullets' frangibility is supposed to be part of their effectiveness. Some refer to them as grenades but in a positive sense.

There are so many good bullets today, you can pick and choose. I like Woodleigh Weld Cores, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Lapua Megas, Remington Core Lokt and most mono-metals. Even Gerard's. If they were easier to get I'd foresake Barnes forever. Haven't shot Michael's new CBE bullets but reports are all positive. If I had to pick just one and only one it would probably be North Fork becuase (1) they work and (2)for me they are the least PIA to get to shoot well.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
The question was about the Berger VLD. He was not asking for opinions on monometels, Nosler Partitions, Swifts, etc.

He mentioned VLDs and Gamekings, then ended with "what do ya'll think?"

So I answered what I thought, which excluded Gamekings, but included the VLD.

Absolutely and I think you were the first to address the question.
It seems when a question is asked the first reply is always to use some other bullet, different caliber, different brand etc. Nate

It is hard to beat a Nosler Partition.

quote:

the game king in the 160s what do y'all think

I have shot a couple of elk with the 160 HPBT and a few deer for that matter. It’s the varmint bullet for elk. It goes in but doesn’t exit. If you like to eat elk heart, this is not your bullet, it’s pretty much destroyed, along with lungs. Blood trails are not needed, they’re dead. If on the other hand you shoot an elk in the ass with any bullet,,,,,, all bits are off.

monometal cutting edge bullets, with high BC.

this is a BIG buck taken with cutting edge bullet

CEB description

A spine shot with a mono will do that every time.

My clear recommendation is either the 150 grain Barnes Tipped TSX BT with the BC of .450 or the 150 grain Swift Scirocco II with the BC of .515.

They both give good damage inside the body, will give you an exit hole and they both have high BC for long range shooting and shooting in windy conditions.

you guys are all hung up on BULLETS.... I know that was the original question, but if your shot placement is good, you don't need a pass thru or a blood trail.

Once upon a time, I shot a small 140 pound 6 point white tail with my 7 mag at a distance of about 20 yards with a 160 gr speer grand slam bullet. It exploded like a varmint bullet and turned the inside of the entire chest cavity into jelly. No pass thru.

On the other hand, my 06 with 180 gr Sierra's have zipped on through every time on white tails and mulies from 50 up to 200 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
if your shot placement is good, you don't need a pass thru or a blood trail.

yea, tell that to my buddy who shot a big whitetail with his 243 at 50 yards with perfect placement, yet it ran a LONG way onto the next property where 2 other hunters put it down and claimed it. Sure the animal was dead on its feet but you are making it too simple and too general.

Personally I expect to not worry about blood trails unless I'm archery hunting. I try to drop any animal where it stands with a bullet to the shoulder. But I've been on plenty of hunts where the OPs concerns are understandable.

Tell that to me. In 1992 I shot a kudu across a ravine. It was standing broadside and the bullet hit the point of the shoulder, broke the leg, broke the bullet and no fragment was big enough, or went deep enough, to kill it. Just after sundown, after a frantic tracking job up and down a mountain, it was finally brought to ground and I made the landowner this promise: From 1993, there will be a better way. This nonsense, of a bullet that fails to finish what the hunter has started, will stop.

I organised plains game hunting for customers from around 1980 to 2000 and I had seen that type of incident dozens of times. The hunter does everything right and then, the bullet fails to finish the job. Been there, done that, done doing that.

My experience with the Berger VLD is that they are not a bullet to be using if you want a pass through at ranges under 250 to 300 yards. They are not designed as a penatration projectile. The deer I shot this year with a 115VLD from my 257DGR at 200 yards had no exit holes. The bullet hit a rib and split apart- one piece perferated the liver and the other piece or pieces destroyed the lungs. I have shot deer at a similar range with the 100 gr Silvertip and it did pass through when shor in the same area. I have to say I love the accuracy and the trajectory of the Berger VLD, but I am swithching back to eith 100gr Hornady interlocks or the 110 accubond. We also have shooting deer with the 150 Hornady SST from the 300 Win mag and have recovered only one bullet, the deer was shot in the chest at 90 yards, the bullet was under the hide by the tail and everything inbetween was vaporized. Other s have been shot at 250-400 yards and all have been pass throughs.

www.duanesguns.com

All killed with VLD at less than 350 yards and all pass through: