Here's the deal. I am a member of the SA Hunting Rifle Shooting Association. Essentially the aims and goals of SAHRSA is to promote ethical hunting practices and improve the marksmanship of the hunter. The form of competition can be best described as "IPSC for rifles, but without the running":

Course of fire is 30 rounds: 6 events of 5 rounds each. A possible is 900 points.
3 events are 200mm (8") steel gongs, suspended usually by conveyor belt from a frame (30 points per hit). The remaining 3 are animal targets. The targets are a warthog. Impala and a springbok, all life size, with scoring zones on the body: 30 points headshot, 20 points heartshot: 10 points in the shoulder and there are -5 and -15 point zones if you shoot in the gut or legs.

The 3 gong events place the gongs anywhere from 100m out to 300m. Typically there's a short-ish range where the mandated shooting style is sitting or kneeling supported by a shooting stick or a tree, then a medium one where you have to shoot from behind an anthill, and a long one where you may (or may not) have a dead rest from prone. Each set of 5 gongs are placed at different distances and angles (up/down, left/right) so the shot has to move about a bit to get each target into view.

The three animal target events are usually presented: warthog at 50-80m standing freestyle, impala 80 to 150m standing with a support (shooting sticks) and the springbok can be 150 to 350m where you shoot prone. You put 5 shots into your target.

You can get mixtures of targets and distances.

Here's the kicker: The distances to targets are not made known and no rangefinders are allowed. Caught with one you are thrown off the range.
Current rules are no limitation on calibre.
There is a 90 second time limit from standing at the ready. 45 seconds in the case of some of the short range events.

The ranges are usually created in a mountainous environment so it is very stimulating competition. It is also harder to dope the wind in this kind of terrain.

To score, all you need is a clang on the gong or a hole in the target.

What I want to hear from y'all is what calibre/cartridge/bullet you'd use, and then what style of rifle (must be a bolt, lever or single shot) you'd go for, and finally what optic you'd recommend. There is no limit to any of these. It must be a safe rifle tho'.

I could tell you what the locals use but I want to hear what you guys think.

Any question I'll answer.

Cheers

pete

Frist one has to know are there any caliber requierments.

If not I would use a light recoiling rifle with high vel. to cut down on bullet drop the farest range is 300 meters.

How big are the gongs there are several calibers out there that would cut bullet drop.

a fast 224 or 6mm cal.

any rifle weight restrictions.

does one have knock them over or just hit them.

P Dog

No limit Upper or lower on Cal you can use anything.
No weight limit.
Just hit the gong which is 200mm or 8"

"Essentially the aims and goals of SAHRSA is to promote ethical hunting practices and improve the marksmanship of the hunter."

In that case, I'd use the rifle I used most for hunting. In my case, it would be a Ruger No. 1A in 7X57mm!

Pete,
I believe that any high intensity rifle cartridge from 243 through 338 would be adequate for this game if you use heavy for bore bullets.

The trick here is not the cartridge but the scope. You need a scope that has mil dot or similar indication on it so that you can use it as a ranging device and to hyper elevate your POI for the longer distances.

They tell me that there is a new .338 bullet by Sierra that is heavy and very "slick." From a 338 Lapua or a 338/404 this bullet is a truly flat shooter. This might help some, but I don't think that any cartridge is flat shooting enough to hold dead on over the distances you are shooting. Kudude

Sounds like a .223 bolt rifle'd work well.

I like the small calibre idea, however I think this is the perfect place for a 6.5X55. I should think a model 38, or 96 with its long sight radius, would be perfect never mind the fact that they are affordable.

A long barreled 243 Win or AI shooting 105 Amax at 3250+.

I don't think a long heavy for caiber bullet is needed ranges are not that great. I would go with something fast and medium weight.

Why are no semi auto rifles allowed?

Is the use of a sling instead of shooting sticks permitted?

I would use a scoped AR15 in 6.5 Grendel.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I don't think a long heavy for caiber bullet is needed ranges are not that great. I would go with something fast and medium weight.

Depends on how bad the wind gets.

I would suggest a 6.5x55 or a 308 win a
M96 Swede with a scope would be a very cheap and very accurate rifle use either 120gn-140gn sierra Matchkings
a 308 with 155gn sierra Matchkings would also work well they may not be the flatest shooting rifles around but if you put the time in and figure out their bullet drops they will not let you down also recoil is mild so over a long series of shot fatigue should not be a problem
as for a scope buy a good optical quality but not a high magnafication scope I would think a 4-14 would be as big as you would need to go if you are shooting prone or with sticks the last thing you need is big scope you will drive yourself insane trying to get a 20X scope to stop moving

This sounds like FFUUUUNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will start loading rounds for my Tikka T3 25-06 with a Burris 4.5x14 Signiture and meet you all there!!!
I'll probably stay with the 110grn Nosler AB's since they work so good.


Smedley

light recoiling would definately be a help since the comp is timed. High BC bullets needed too. theres the tradeoff. shoot something fast, and time of flight makes your holdover judgement less critical, but you have to recover for your next shot. 22-250. or, shoot something high BC from a 308 or 30-06 with lost river, berger, sierra.

A .223 with 40 gr Ballistic Tips in a heavy bolt rifle with a magazine.

But if it's windy there a lot then a 6mm Br shooting 55 gr BT's.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
A .223 with 40 gr Ballistic Tips in a heavy bolt rifle with a magazine.

But if it's windy there a lot then a 6mm Br shooting 55 gr BT's.

A 223 shooting 68 or 75 Hornady HPBTs would walk all over a 6BR with 55s.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
A .223 with 40 gr Ballistic Tips in a heavy bolt rifle with a magazine.

But if it's windy there a lot then a 6mm Br shooting 55 gr BT's.

A 223 shooting 68 or 75 Hornady HPBTs would walk all over a 6BR with 55s.

"350m where you shoot prone. You put 5 shots into your target.

You can get mixtures of targets and distances."

I was thinking of a flat trajectory for the 350 meter target.

The 6mm Br's 55's might be a foot low at 350 meters with a 250 yd zero. The 223 might need a 225 yd zero and it would drop twice that and without a certain range I you might miss. The 223 load would drift 4" less or 12" in a 10 mph/90 wind.

There has to be a way to know when it's far by using the plex set to a certain power.

Thinking about it again this is why I shot/shoot a 6mm Intl. It walks all over the 223 and it does not kick much at all.

All good suggestions and recommendations, thanks to all.

quote:

"The trick here is not the cartridge but the scope. You need a scope that has mil dot or similar indication on it so that you can use it as a ranging device and to hyper elevate your POI for the longer distances"

Good point.

quote:

A long barreled 243 Win or AI shooting 105 Amax at 3250+

The South African Champ uses a Ruger Varmint std 243 (Load unknown)

quote:

"Why are no semi auto rifles allowed?

Is the use of a sling instead of shooting sticks permitted?

"

HP, Semi-Auto's are banned for hunting, hence have no place in this sport. Yes you can use a sling, but if the event specifies use of sticks you must use them, and you can use the sling as well.

OK, I have shot this kind of comp now for 2 years, but not seriously. I've been sitting on the sidelines checking out what the top guys favour, and because it is new, there might be some rule changes with regard to weight, scope size, calibre. Well they made no changes, just introduced a Standard class where the restriction is scope size (3-9X max), weight and style (no Varminters or target rifles).

Here's what I've seen:

The first flush at the start was the 25-06, shooting 120gr A-max's. High power 6.5-20X40 scopes with turrets. Heavy barreled varminters.

A lot of folk still use them. There is a smattering of 270 Win, and 308 Win users. No magnums to be found - This might have something to do with mag capacity as well as the recoil.

Most of the people as well as the top guys now use either a 243 Win or a 243 Win AI. But this costs them in barrel wear. No surprise the top shooter is also a gun dealer and smith.

Then there are the 224 crowd, arguing flat trajectory and light recoil. The small cal I've seen used was a 222. I am in that mob (more later)

Scopes stay in the High Magnification range 6.5-20 or 4.5-14. Reticles are mainly still duplex. Some guys use the TMS or Varmint Reticle. Lotta folk look at a range, estimate the average range of the gongs, and dial that "come up" into their turrets. This works well for them.

Rifle style is almost universally a heavy barrelled varminter, bolt action, 5 shots in the mag. Sendero's and Sako's are popular. Lot of folk use silencers (Note, not muzzle brakes!!!!). These reduce recoil a lot.

The small calibre crowd use the 22-250, either std or AI, with a 55gr bullet or 52gr HPBT. On a windless day these guys are unbeatable. Myself I use a std 22-250 with a 69gr Sierra HPBT - I've put a 4.5-14X50 Leupy on with the VHR. If it is windy I haul out the 7X64 with 130gr HPBT's. My scores are in the 600-650 range. The top guys who shoot a lot are 750-850. Drop a gong and that is 30 points! Last competition I started off on the short ranges, doing OK, then the wind came up and blew me off the target at the gong ranges. Lost a lotta points there. Once you have started you have to use the same rifle throughout the comp.

Whew! Long post. Thanks for the input!!

Cheers

pete

Pete, what sort of twist do you have in that .22-250 of yours? Mine's 1-12", and I've never tried any longer bullets than flat-based 60 grain spitzers, which work fine. I'd've thought that 69 grainer might be running into instability with the usual 1-12 or 1-14 twists for the .22-250.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Millan:HP, Semi-Auto's are banned for hunting, hence have no place in this sport.

WTF?

He's in South Africa.

.204 Ruger zeroed 2 3/4" high at 100 yards.

You could hold center of mass on every target on the range and just have to dope the wind.
Simplifies the head games.

I would use my 257 WBY MAG with those 117 gr bullets at 3300 fps. That rifle shoots pretty flat to about 250 yds.

Ricochet, It's a 1:10 McGowen. Been using it since 1986. Won't shoot anything other than a 68/69 HPBT or a 70gr Speer bullet worth a damn.

Looking to replace it with a 1:8 or 1:9.

Thanks all! That 204 sounds like a nifty idea.

Yup, you may not use any Semi-auto rifle for hunting in South Africa.

Cheers

pete

OK. Doubt those bullets'd shoot in my 1:12" Savage.

Well, I'm not sure if it is legal to own where you are, and in my view it probably doesn't fit the ethics of the intended point of the match....

but if all I wanted to do was win, I'd probably use an AR-15 clone in .243 Winchester, with a 1:9 twist, and a VLD 105 gr. bullet....mil-dot scope, or if those are not legal, a dual-X type scope reticule where I know the span of the fine cross hair between center and the lower leg of the reticule.

Seems like that would make it a typical dollar/technology race though(Rand/tech race?), and just winning would kind of demean the entire match, for me.

AWWWW:

I'd get something chambered in a 6.5 x 55, and call it a day...

You can find ammo and components anywhere.. and it will never let you down in the accuracy department.... why re invent the wheel?

Cheers
seafire

I think that the advice to look to the smaller cartridges is good. Of them, I would choose the 6BR. Driving the 95 gr Lapua scenar (B.C. .525) at roughly 3000 fps, you will do fine for both drift and trajectory. The small case will burn a lot less powder and be easier on barrels than the .243. Also, you won't have the recoil to deal with from the larger rounds and you'll outrun the performance of the .223/ppc class cartridges by a substantial margin.

Gabe

I'd use the .243 Winchester myself. Very accurate, flat shooting, soft recoil, easy to get ammunition and good wind bucking ability with the heavier streamlined bullets. Should do the trick out to 400 m.

Papashmud had some good advice I did quite a bit of silloutte shooting and used a .308 rem with a Hart barrel I needed energy to knock them over. But as Papashmud said the 6ppc would be great, they abosolutly tac compaired to a lot of other mentioned cartridges.
But to me you should have a good scope with a 1/4" dot and a must is a canjar, or jewell trigger or any good light trigger, and you will do fine if you can hold it.
Those short stubby cases can't be beat.

BTW Pete, the SA Champ is shooting a .243Win Sako rifle, with a Vektor after market barrel, not a Ruger. He uses 88gr Berger bulets @ ~3400ft/sec.
Most guys in the top 20 (now the Top 30 because of the growing popularity) use a .243 of sorts. I myself use a .243 AI, shooting a 105gr Hornady A-Max @ 3130ft/sec. My rifle is a Remington M700 action, timney trigger, Vektor barrel, HS precision stock, Swarovski 2.5-10x42 scope. (I will change back to a standard .243 (which I used to use) in a heartbeat, shooting the same bullet, only about 100ft/sec slower.) It might seem as a equipment race, but the competitions are set up as such that any rifle capable of shooting a 1" group from a bench @ 100yards consistantly, can score full points. So really the competition only tests the marksman's ability to judge range & wind and his ability to shoot from difficult field positions. BTW, I did manage to make the top 20/ 30 since the inception of the National top 20/ 30 (I think 2001).

After thinking this over, I prefer rifle sports with a decidely military bent, such as highpower rifle and tactical rifle competitions.

Karl, I'll see you at Gariep then in March. I am shooting in the CHASA Inter Association shoot and the Nationals. Did you shoot the Gauteng provincial? How'd you shape in that wind?