Give us your success stories when you let the hammer down with yours. Thanks.

I can give you a report on my hunting partners 338 Federal use. One shot, about 80 yards, Federal 200 grain fusion factory round and one dead moose. It ran about 100 yards into the woods and fell over dead. Shot was through the lungs, hit rib on way in and out.. Couldn't ask for better result. I got mine with 338 Win. using 225 tsx. One shot bang flop. It was still in the lake. That was fun..

Will be using my 338 federal on white tail in a month or so (ruger frontier with 16 in. barrel). I've had good results with it at the range, but I'll know for sure after x-mas. I'll also be on the lookout for piggies... this might give me a better idea performance wise. Will post results accordingly.

Maddenwh

What loads have you been using at the range? Any chronograph data?

I just started working up loads for mine and Im curious to see what others are using.

I used a 338/284 in a Sav. 99F for a saddle gun for elk some. It was about like a 338-06 as far as I could tell, it worked fine. I am sure the Federal round will do the same.

Dogface- I haven't reloaded for it yet. I've just shot factory loads. I'm going shooting tomorrow, and if I take the federal, I'll shoot it over the chrono and see what I can get. I'm sure the 338 federal, like the 358 winchester, can be loaded a bit hotter than the factory loads. So far, the accuracy with the federal factory loads has really been fantastic. I think it might be an ideal elk, black bear, and hog gun. It's also not too much for white tail and shoots flat enough for mule deer hunting. A good all around round, but I'll know for sure come January.

I've just moved into a new house, so I haven't set up the reloading station yet. Also, I'm a first year law student, so I won't really have the time to screw with handloading until after finals in mid december. I usually just reload for the big bores and buy factory ammo for the stuff that's cheap enough or performs well enough as is.

quote:

Will be using my 338 federal on white tail in a month or so (ruger frontier with 16 in. barrel).

Boy, I bet that kicks more than a standard length barrel and standard weight 338 Win Mag!!!

The recoil isn't bad at all, but yes, the muzzle does jump pretty well after shooting it. However, it's not enough to bother me at all, and no, it doesn't kick near as much as my 338 winny. It's a great rifle for long distance walking hunts because it weighs nothing and you don't have to worry about catching the barrel on trees etc. I dig it, and I dig the cal.

185 grain TSX - Bison, ibex, 2 hogs, axis deer, all dead right there except the Bison, which stumbled for about 10 yards before falling.

200 grain Fusion - 2 caribou, 3 whitetails, all dead right there. One caribou was running full speed when I shot it. It collapsed and skidded for about 10 feet.

210 Partition - 2 black bears. One dropped in its tracks. The other ran 50 yards straight downhill, heartshot, and collapsed in a heap.

I shot some more stuff with it in early testing, but I cannot remember what and don't have my notes here at the house. It has worked very well every time, with good accuracy, moderate recoil, and excellent on-game performance. When I had to send back the Sako prototype rifle, I ordered a .338 Fed barrel for my T/C Pro Hunter and a custom number from Hill Country Rifles.

GregR- great report. Really gives me confidence in case I run across a grumpy 300 lb feral hog. In fact, that's what I'll be trying for.

Just had a 35 Whelen rebarreled, so I'm still up in the air as to whether I want to use it or the 338 federal. Either one of the two may be permanently or temporarily replacing my previous wrk horse rifle, my remington 673 guide gun in a 350 remy mag. I'm pretty fond of that 350, but I'm looking forward to trying out the 338 federal ( I know how well the Whelen works, as I've had one before).

Dogface-

I didn't end up shooting the federal at the range today. Shot the 470, 375, 350, and 338 win mag instead, but I'll be headed out again this wekend. I'll definitely chrono the 338 federal, as I'm interested to see what the velocity is out of a 16 inch barrel. Obviously, your velocity will be higher out of a longer barrel, but I'll post the specs irregardless.

I love my Whelen, too. Either one will hammer hogs.

Don't know if yu've shot a 350 remy as well, but it's also a great medium bore... a little more juice in factory loads than the Whelen, but not a great bullet selection, thus the reason I'm switching to the Whelen. Also have a 9.3X74r I'll be taking on my pig hunting trip (a 458 lott will be on the menu as well, but this isn't the appropriate forum for that). I've really started to favor the 358 and 338 cals of late... they're really good for anything in Noth Amerrica.

I can only report about one of our group members results. He used 185gr barnes in factory loading. Medium sized bull elk under 100yds strongly quartering away. Bullet struck left ham and penetrated into the abdomen. It failed to penetrate the rumen resulting in a gut shot animal. He did recover it the next day. This was not a shot he would normally take, but was a follow up shot to a broadside attempt. As it turned out, the first shot missed.

MFH

I shot a calf last weekend with mine. Hardly what you would call a test, but at 157 yards it was a slight quartering away and it was a through and through using the 185gr TSX bullets. Turned the lungs into jello.

The calf went down hard, tried to get up but couldn't.

Mine are reloads using Lapua .308 brass, federal match primers and RL7 powder. Velocity is 2725 fps. Many say my powder is too fast for this round, but I have good case life now that I backed it off and it was too close to hunting season to try something different. I'll experiment more throughout the winter.

Very impressed with this round so far for the distances we shoot. Keep them all under 300 yards and you'll be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by MFH:
I can only report about one of our group members results. He used 185gr barnes in factory loading. Medium sized bull elk under 100yds strongly quartering away. Bullet struck left ham and penetrated into the abdomen. It failed to penetrate the rumen resulting in a gut shot animal. He did recover it the next day. This was not a shot he would normally take, but was a follow up shot to a broadside attempt. As it turned out, the first shot missed.

MFH

Sounds like if more attention paid to making a better first shot, more time, better rest, etc, things might have worked out better, glad he recovered the animal. My buddy dropped a 346 class bull at little more than 100 yds last weekend with 350 mag, he still has no answer about where the first shot hit, making me wonder did he miss completely and scared to admit it. Bull turned around, giving other side, put a 200gr behind shoulders, missed heart, but dropped it where it stood. Airline rules would not allow him to carry my 225 partition loads on plane as they were in a zip lock bag......I did not know, but he never checked I guess.

I reassured him factory ammo would work, keep shots under 300, try for a broadside shot in lungs, don't stop shooting if it does not drop after first shot.

It all worked out for him, but I'd love to know about his first shot. Could have been BULL ELK fever! His first!

Beretta96, what gun and bbl length are you using?

Congrats on your success. As to whether it qualified as a test.....I'd rather get within 157 yds of my elk, than further. Had a bull w/in 30 yds my last hunt, but brow tines were not long enough to be legal, that was exciting, I was sitting against a tree eyeing through my scope. That got my heart pumping to be sure.

Thanks for the reports.

Thanks maddenwh!

beretta96 how many grains of RL7 are you using?

Mine is a "custom" of sorts, it wears a 24" Lilja heavy stainless barrel, Rem 700 action and a HS Precision stock. Fully floated and with a 3# trigger pull.

I'm very pleased with it.

I don't recommend using RL7 since it's not published data but I've settled on 42.7 grs of RL7.

Like I mentioned earlier, some say it's too fast a powder but I ran out of time for experimentation. The pressure signs are not there like they were earlier and case life is good. Extremely accurate, well inside MOA using the 185gr TSX bullets.

The 338 Federal is a real performer on game. I saw a gentelman take a Zebra with the 338 Federal and 210 TSX bullets at a range of about 100 yards.. The performance was quite spectacluar as can be seen by the photos..

Exit in Hide




Rifle used was a Kimber total wieght of 6 pounds including scope





Check out the size of the wound in the heart

quote:

I don't recommend using RL7 since it's not published data but I've settled on 42.7 grs of RL7.

Like I mentioned earlier, some say it's too fast a powder but I ran out of time for experimentation. The pressure signs are not there like they were earlier and case life is good. Extremely accurate, well inside MOA using the 185gr TSX bullets.

I see RL7 listed for the 358 Winchester with the 200 gr bullet. The recommended weight is between 40 and 45 grains.

Has anyone used 358 Winchester info to build 338 Federal loads?

quote:

Bullet struck left ham and penetrated into the abdomen. It failed to penetrate the rumen resulting in a gut shot animal.

gut shot animals tend to be...
gut shot.

Obviously, a gut shot is a gut shot. And there has been more than a little criticism of the individual responsible. My point is/was that with my 338WM, I have made hits in the shoulder or chest that penetrated both chest and abdomen including rumen and exited the rear. In no way does this excuse the poor shooting of the individual, but my opinion is that had he used a more potent round, or even a heavier bullet than the 185gr, a lot of tracking might have been avoided. And of course, this is only one animal and does not necessarily reflect anything about the cartridge in general.

MFH

quote:

Originally posted by MFH:
Obviously, a gut shot is a gut shot. And there has been more than a little criticism of the individual responsible. My point is/was that with my 338WM, I have made hits in the shoulder or chest that penetrated both chest and abdomen including rumen and exited the rear. In no way does this excuse the poor shooting of the individual, but my opinion is that had he used a more potent round, or even a heavier bullet than the 185gr, a lot of tracking might have been avoided. And of course, this is only one animal and does not necessarily reflect anything about the cartridge in general.

MFH

Ok
explain to me this since your a beliver of the more potent round.
if i shoot a 30-06 at a deer and strike him at a distance on a certain spot and the bullet penetrates completly, then i shoot an deer in the exact same place and distance with a 308 and the bullet penetrates. how is one more potent?
the only real distance is the amount of residule energy after the pass through. the 30-06 will expend less of its potential and travel a bit further striking the earth farther away.

i can not gather the brain power needed to formulate a senario in which an animal shot in the same location with the same bullet type ant the same difference is going to be killed any deader or faster or even more efficiently by a round that may be moving a little faster.

the bullet your talking about would have struck with between muzzle velocity and speed at "less than 100 yards" correct? so we are talking about (a distance say 50 yards to 100) 2800-2600 ft. pounds of energy. vs your win mag with the same bullet at 3100-2900 ft pounds?

in fact the win mag hitting the same animal at a distance of 175 yards would hit with almost exactly the same energy as the 338 federal at 100 yards.
so by your theory the 338 winmag becomes an ineffective killer at more than 175 yards?
please...
the animal was shot in the "left ham and penetrated into the abdomen".
thats were the fault lies.
you make the statement "It failed to penetrate the rumen resulting in a gut shot animal. "

you are wrong. even if it had been a 338 Lapua and penetrated the rumen it STILL would have been gut shot.
without a doubt 100% absolutly the hunters fault. and in any way an attempt to blame any factor other than his own actions are a futile attempt to smooth over his own deficiency.

your off the mark on your idea that an animal struck in the ass and into the guts is goint to react in a similar fashion to one struck in shoulder and on into the guts.

the use of a heavyier bullet would have resulted in a loss of energy not a gain.
elementary science E=MC2 speed is squared. mass is not.
the downfall of the 338 federal is that a caliber correct weight bullet is not a good choice due to bullet length. the 51mm case is too short for it in a weight that would be an efficiant use of the bore diameter. WHY shoot a 185 in a 338 when you can shoot a 180 in a 30 cal?
regardless, do you think that a 225 grain bullet 2350 fps would have meant any difference?

Not meant to start debate, just wanted to hear some good stories. Appreciate the feedback.

I try striving for good shot placement, choice of bullet/loads-etc, AND a good shot angle before squeezing. I am sure when those who pay big money for a hunt have a split second, a decision has to be made to shoot or not, the hunter has to make the call, and live with it.

My hunting mostly involves deer, some hogs, but have elk hunted on public land but it is still not cheap, that said, I felt confident in my 7/08 w/139's on one trip, a 270 another, and my 338/06 a third. Finding elk was my challenge those trips. Hope to again go back after them.

Interesting note, Hart barrels that did the 338/06 adv one of their guys hunts elk with a 284, loaded with 140 partitions at a mere 2850fps. Begs why not a 7mm-08? None the less, I'd prefer a 338 or 358 bore on elk, not needed but reassuring.

Would be nice to see the 338/06 come out in many factory guns/ammo (for non loaders and those who cannot afford a custom), as performance would be very close in field to 400 yds IMHO to a Win Mag with 200-225 gr bullets.

For discussion, I could care less where the initial contact with the animal is made if the bullet passes completely through. The important thing is that the vital organs are penetrated and there is enough damage to result in rapid death through either blood loss or shock or whatever. The bottom line on this specific animal and situation is very simple. Had the bullet penetrated through the rumen and continued in the direction of the wound channel,it would have penetrated the chest cavity and at least one if not both lungs. The end result would have been more rapid recovery.

I never stated that I use the same bullet in the WM. To me, common sense would dictate that a heavier bullet would be used in a cartridge with larger capacity. Larger weight bullet, more velocity, and higher sectional density should equal more penetration...assuming the bullet holds together. Your example of the 338 Lapua might well overstress a 185gr.

As to your question of a 225gr at the same speed..I do not know, but I would expect some increase in penetration. At a lower speed, I would also expect less expansion which might also lead to more penetration, but with a smaller wound channel. In this case, just a few more inches might have made a difference.

I have tried to present this as a single case study of one scenario. I have not and will not try to excuse the situation that caused it. I do not like having to help track a wounded animal in the dark. I have no doubt that regardless of the crappy shot placement, had the bullet, any reasonable bullet, have continued on the same path and exited the animal, it would have penetrated the chest cavity and caused a rapid death. The bottom line is that it did not.

I think that we are basically on the same page about this. Why be childish in your responses. If we are not and you would like to post the respective calculated theoretical penetrations of various 338 bullets in ballistic media to show why a larger weight bullet at a faster velocity will not have better penetration than a lighter one, I would love to see the data.

MFh

why not a 340 weatherby then?
i mean are we talking about the 338 federal or are we comparing aass shots of various calibers and which will bring down an animal quickest.
youll have to debate that with someone else. you lost me at ...
"I could care less where the initial contact with the animal is made if the bullet passes completely through."

KS, I think what he was saying is no matter the entry point on an animal, it is the BULLET PATH THROUGH, or hopefully THROUGH the animal cutting vitals in the process. It is not always easy to visualize, but if you study a little basic anatomy, a raking or rear shot, with a sufficient caliber will punch a large % or perhaps all the way thru an animal.

That said, I always try getting a good broadside shot, have taken frontal or raking shots, attemped a rear end shot on one running deer but never connected. A good first shot at an unalarmed animal is ideal and I try being patient and have passed shots.

That said, I think the poster IS on the same page as all ethical sportsman, analyzing the outcome, doing some 'failure analysis' and hoping never to see another repeat. We all strive for DRT kills, humane, but things sometimes do not work out as planned. Often no better teacher than experience.

Wishing all a safe and successful hunting season.

6.5BR,

Thank you! That is exactly my point.

MFH

I am a firm supporter of the 338 Federal but feel that there is nothing to gain by shooting the 180 and 185 grain bullets the best balance of energy and velocity is with the 200 thru 215 grain bullets and if I want to shoot 180 grain bullets I will do it with a 30 cal. rifle.

I apreciate the gentlemans post on the failure of the 338 Federal on the quarteing shot and agree with him that a 338 win mag may have resulted in an easier recovery of the elk.

However as he pointed out also a heavier bullet in the 338 Federal may have done a better job also.

I have always used the heaviest bullet in a particular cartridge that it will shoot giveing the best balance of energy and trajectory.

The 180 and 185 grain bullets should probably be used only for deer in the 338 federal as their sectional density is not high enough for good penitration on marginal shots on elk.

KSTEPHENS- Your reference to E=MC2 as "elementary" physics for a bullet was not correct. C does not equal speed. C equals the speed of light squared. This equation was used by Einstein to describe the amount of energy that can be coverted from mass, and that mass and energy are interchangeable. It has nothing to do with bullet ballistics.

F= MA /Force (or energy as you are thinking of it) equals mass times acceleration might be more practical, so your conclusion about bullet velocity and mass in general is wrong.

quote:

The 180 and 185 grain bullets should probably be used only for deer in the 338 federal as their sectional density is not high enough for good penitration on marginal shots on elk.

I definitely disagree with your thoughts on the 180/185gr class of bullets. Factory loads and my reloads have velocity high enough to carry 2000 ft/lbs almost to 300 yards which is the rule of thumb for big game which includes moose and elk.

Essentially using this weight of bullet in this cartridge gives you 30-06 performance with a larger diameter bullet. If you can say the 30-06 is capable for moose/elk then why not the 338 federal?

Many go on to say such as other posts, use the 338 winmag, or 340 Weatherby, heavier bullets pushed faster kill better but who wants to deal with this level of recoil? I've seen many "heroes" at the range with these cannons and can't hit a sheet of plywood. Result wounded game.

If you can shoot those cartridges effectively, then by all means go ahead, but this cartridge makes sense for people who cannot tolerate recoil and for the average hunter who doesn't spend 3 days a week at the range.

We're also not comparing apples to apples either. It was never meant to be a magnum round.

My thoughts and beliefs on bullet placement are such that texas heart shots and heavy quartering shots should never be taken unless the animal is already injured. I believe it's not a responsible shot, risks are too high for lost/injured game regardless of caliber. Why not wait a few more seconds for a sure thing? There is always tomorrow. I don't mind buying meat at the grocery store knowing I have not injured any animals with careless behavior. Just my opinion of course.

Beretta, your disagreement is noted.

However as I really like the 338 Federal I stand firm on my opinion that the 200 thru 215 gr. bullets are the best weight for game larger than deer.

If you prefer to use the 185s on elk that is fine best wishes and may many a successful hunt you have.

What we are disagreeing on is not much of a stretch as it is clear to me that we are both on the same page just reading it a little different.

I did try the 200gr accubonds and ballistic tips but couldn't get them to group very well at all.

I was hoping the ballistic tips would group, would have been cheaper to shoot. I never had much luck in the past with Barnes products but I figured I'd try the TSX's and they group extremely well for me.

When I bought my Sako 85 last year I was unable to find any data as the round was to new.

The only 338 bullets I had on hand where 215gr Sierras and 200gr Hornady spire points. Using a lot of caution I tried many powders and finally settled on IMR 4895 as it was nearly time to go hunting. Have since switched to H4895 as it seems to work just a skosh better in my rifle it shoots about 5/8 inch groups with the Hornadys and a little less with the Sierras. I have Accubonds,Scirroccos and a box of Kodiacs that I will be trying next.

Great points, nice to know how well the Sako 85 shoots, worth the dollars it seems. As to heavy for caliber bullets, I usually am with that thought-when apples to apples, but feel that comparing a copper bullet that retains almost all weight during penetration, vs one that sheds weight after impact, is not comparing apples to apples. I am not a fan of the 180 ballistic tip, as I skipped right over it to the higher BC/SD 200 gr for my 338/06 at 2900+ mv......for a deer load. The 180 however will suffice well for deer in a 338 federal I am sure, and likely never be wanting, I would expect giving dependable results/recovery despite shot angle, given vitals are in the bullet path. I have a hunch the 200 Btip likes more RPMS for best accuracy and needs more MV as most all 338's have same 10" twist.

On larger game, For reloaders a 210 TSX may well be a bullet given a nod even over the 185 TSX due to more mass/retained energy, but again, I'd love to see the wound channel tests of a 185 Barnes vs. a 210 partition, and you say 215's....well my 338/06 at 2790 separated the jacket/cores at 200 yd backstop, not scientific, but the 225 Hornady at 2670 usually stayed intact and a nice round mushroom.....much better IMHO.

That said, the proven 225 PT is my pick in a 338/06 and only an accurate Barnes would tempt me to use another if I were using a 338/06, but in a 338 Federal, given less speed, (again, as above never meant to be a magnum or cross canyon gun-but stands on it's merits along IMHO) I think 225 is a 'ceiling' you want in bullet weight to get expansion. That Hornady at around 2500 or so that the '08 case would push it might do very well in large game, but having seen what a Barnes can do when it works as planned, I was impressed. Yes a 185 never will have the BC/SD of a heavier bullet, but how heavy is a lead core bullet halfway along it's path and further vs a mono? I'd suspect penetration would be very good, perhaps equal or better but tests would have to be done. I will contact Federal since I am sure they have the info. Layne Simpson used the 185 barnes for whatever reason, IIRC, 314 yds shoulder to shoulder/exit on a bull elk, don't know what more you could want.

My point is that a 185 copper bullet is not the same as a 185 lead core slug 'after impact' so they are not apples to apples, when looking at SD 'pre-impact' as the SD is related to weight vs caliber and it changes on a 'cup/core' bullet 'post-impact', but you don't have the loss of mass with a Barnes, though the frontal area widens and slows penetration, it is transmitting energy, cutting tissue as it penetrates maintaining the weight.

When going to the heavier side for a 338 bullet in a modest capacity '08 case, I think expansion needs to be considered, specifically are impact velocities going to give you desired expansion for wound channel. That very reason would make me question using a say 250 gr bullet in the 338 Federal, and an additional benefit I see in lighter bullets is a flatter trajectory.

Feedback welcome, enjoyed the comments.

I am so used to using leadcore bullets that I seldom give the bullets such as the TSX a thought and your reasoning is sound.

The 338 federal is what I call an Honest round it performs well at practical hunting ranges and does not knock your head off in the process.

My longest shot so far has been a lasered 242 yards on a large whitetail.

The 200grain Hornady has shown textbook expansion on 6 deer that I have taken so far and is the least expensive bullet I have tested. I will pop afew over the next few weeks with the 210 Scirroccos and see if the justify the extra expense. I also will order a few boxes of the TSX and try them on some hogs later this winter.

Ron,

Have you every chronographed your 200's? I do like the price of the hornadys compared to Barnes.

How much drop do you figure you had on the 242 yard deer?

My twist rate is 1:10, is this the same as your Sako?

I was getting 2556 FPS with the Hornady 200.

I zeroed 2.5 inches high at a`100yds never had the chance to see how much drop it had in 300yds as time was short. Held dead on that particular deer and it was a perfectly placed shot however that may have been an accident on my part.

Have extended my shooting range and can shoot 200yds now will be able to have a better Idea as to what is going on out at 300yds with a little more shooting.

I have a lot of Sakos, Blasers and Sauer 202s but the Sako 85 Hunter is classy little workhorse.

Twist is 1 in 10

If the .338 Federal fails on game, its not the caliber or the velocity or energy or any of the usual whoa is me's, it's because someone used the wrong bullet, one of poor construction for the job at hand...Bullet construction and placement is way more important that caliber.

The 340 WBY is a 338 Federal at longer range, just like the 300 WBY is a 30-30 at some point in its travels.

The 338 Federal is nothing more than the time proven 338-06 IMP.

I really liked the 210 grain Partition in the .338 Federal until the 200-grain Fusion was announced. The new load shoots better in my guns and seems to be the perfect balance of bullet weight and velocity. I will be hunting exclusively with that load in my .338 Federals from now on.