Cleaning out a friends grandfathers garage we found a rusted military rifle under a bunch of stuff. After a little oiling it functioned and fired(dry) fine. I dont know what it is. I'll try to describe it. Bolt action, the bolt is semi teardrop in shape and is straight. You have to push it forward the last 1/8 to a 1/4 inch before it will close. The saftey is a knob at the rear of the bolt that is on safe when it is turned clockwise. The knob has a slot across the top for a thumb to catch. On top of the reciever just before the barrel are (4) letters that appear to be arabic or asian, I dont know enough about either to be sure. The caliber appears to be between 6.5- maybe 8, not real sure without measuring. Anybody know what we found? I apologize if this is posted in the wrong area.

Perry

It's an Arisaka from Japan.....and not a mauser.....whereever you found it....put it back there for someone else to find. IMO it's not too much of a sporter and not worth sporterizing....

My first custom rifle was a 6mm heavy varmint rifle built on the Arisaka action. The 'smith that built the rifle said it was a very rigid and stout action. It was a wickedly accurate rifle alright, but that action seemed kinda clunky and the saftey was almost impossible to use under the scope.

If we could get it cleaned up would it make a good bang around gun? Can you even find ammo for them? It seemed like a cool find, I may be trying to make treasure out of trash.

I´ve seen ammo around, try Graf etc. I´ve never liked the Arisaka but it used to be quite popular here in Finland for moose and is still used by some diehard fanatics.

Actually the 6.5mm Type38 Arisaka's are usually pretty good shooters, provided they aren't rusty spider habitrails
inside the bore.

AllanD

The first thing to do is take it to a competent gunsmith and ask them to check it out for you, confirm the caliber and then look for the Chrysantimum on top to see if it was a capture-gun or not. Start talking with your relatives and see if there is any history they know.
Frank

If it is in original, unmodified condition, you may want to simply clean it up (carefully, without removing any more of whatever finish is left than necessary) and leave it as is. Original military rifles are getting harder and harder to come by as most have been "sporterized" or otherwise defiled. While the Ariska is not the most desireable of military rifles from a collector's viewpoint, in another 20 years you'll find virtually no such thing as an unmodified one. The actions are reputed to be unusually strong; shoot it (with the proper ammunition) as you wish.

It's especially important to find out if the gun was a war prize and even more so if you grandfather was the captor. If you can document it through him or someone else the extra provenance will make it valuable to you and your ancestors if to no one else. Like Stonecreek says though, the day is coming sooner rather than later when these old unaltered guns become scare enough to develop monetary value as well. The provenance will take a gun like yours closer to the head of the line.

If it is an Arisaka, and form the description it does seem to be, and if it still has the crest on the front of the revceiver ring, it has collector value now.

Not many made it back to the US with the crest intact. The crest is a mum - flower.

My Father in law has carbine in 6.5 that was a bring back from WWII by a family member, it stil has has the crest. I cleaned it up for him, bought some lee dies, and norma brass and loaded up a few with IMR 4064 and Hornady 140's.

It is very accurate. 1" 5 shot groups at 50 yds with the original open sites and a very poor trigger pull. And I don't shoot that well with open sites.

If it checks out by a gunsmith and does not have the crest, it would make a nice bang around/ truck gun.

The flower on the crest is a Chrysanthemum

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Cleaning out a friends grandfathers garage we found a rusted military rifle under a bunch of stuff. After a little oiling it functioned and fired(dry) fine. I dont know what it is. I'll try to describe it. Bolt action, the bolt is semi teardrop in shape and is straight. You have to push it forward the last 1/8 to a 1/4 inch before it will close. The saftey is a knob at the rear of the bolt that is on safe when it is turned clockwise. The knob has a slot across the top for a thumb to catch. On top of the reciever just before the barrel are (4) letters that appear to be arabic or asian, I dont know enough about either to be sure. The caliber appears to be between 6.5- maybe 8, not real sure without measuring. Anybody know what we found? I apologize if this is posted in the wrong area. Perry

I agree that it sure sounds like a Jap to me. If there's anything more worthless than a rusty Mauser, it'd have to be a, a, a ..... probably a Carcano! But the Arisaka is right up there in the same ballpark. Actually, an early 6.5mm Arisaka (pre-WWII) in good condition has proven to be the STRONGEST military bolt-action rifle ever made! It is almost a Mauser, but was slightly redesigned, and has a greater mass of metal in critical locations than any other military bolt-action design. The only drawbacks are the cock-on-closing feature, which one can learn to live with, and the unhandly safety design.

If it is in poor condition, it would definitely not be worth the cost of restoration, except for perhaps nostalgic reasons as a family heirloom...... If it has a .26" bore diameter, it is chambered for the 6.5X50mm Arisaka cartridge. If it has a larger bore, it is a 7.7X58mm (.31 caliber). Both of these are pretty decent rounds. Both rounds are available from Graf's,as loaded ammo, and as empty brass for handloading.

quote:

It is very accurate. 1" 5 shot groups at 50 yds with the original open sites and a very poor trigger pull. And I don't shoot that well with open sites.

The trigger was designed to become unnoticable but requires being shot at by GI's. During combat the safety is not necessary.
I have a rifle brought or sent back by an uncle and we have recently "found" my father-in-laws- recently passed- carbine. Both with crest intact and both with combat "character".

Actually I have shot the rifle and it is fairly accurate and not all that difficult to shoot. Wasn't able to try the folding aircraft sight but I understand it to have been more for the soldiers to have the confidence to stand and fire at an incoming Straffer.
Frank

I had a 6.5 that couldn't hit a 3' target at 25 yards. The later guns could have lousy headspacing and barrels.

quote:

If there's anything more worthless than a rusty Mauser, it'd have to be a, a, a ..... probably a Carcano! But the Arisaka is right up there in the same ballpark

HAHA! A NIB Rem 700 is more worthless, and less reliable than any of these guns

I'd also agree witht the others sounds like a japanese ariska rifle. I would disagree with many of the others about them being poor rifles. I'm one of the minority that absolutely loves those things!!!! If you decide you don't want it feel free to send me an e-mail and we'll talk.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorCaliber:

quote:

If there's anything more worthless than a rusty Mauser, it'd have to be a, a, a ..... probably a Carcano! But the Arisaka is right up there in the same ballpark

HAHA! A NIB Rem 700 is more worthless, and less reliable than any of these guns

You have a point there, unfortunately!!

Well if it looks like any of these it is an Arisaka:

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl22-e.htm

Frank DeHaas in his book "Bolt Actions" described and discussed the Arisaka. What I remember of use is that the Arisaka has non standard barrel shank threads. It would be difficult to rebarrel. I have seen many butchered Arisaka's at the gun store, their value is small. Always will be small. Spare parts are not easily available, accessories difficult to find. You will spend far more gunsmithing one of these than buying a new commercial rifle. Better leave it in original condition. They have not been made in 60 years, and all original guns increase in value.

That being said, the Arisaka action was actually a pretty good action. Just read the Arisaka analysis in “Bolt Action a Design Analysis†by Stuart Otteson. And the blow up analysis of the Arisaka in the P.O. Ackley’s Handbook. The type 38 action gave excellent case head support. There is a non locking bolt lug that works as a bolt stop. The bolt stop can get dinged up, but the locking lugs will not get deformed. Also, I like the safety. Just push and rotate. The safety shrouds the end of the bolt it protects the shooter from gas from pierced primers. The Japanese examined the great 98 Mauser and made, what I think, are small “improvementsâ€.

There are several reasons the Arisaka was not rated highly, one to state it bluntly, was racism. The WWII generation did not think highly of Orientals in general, with Chinese and Japanese being held in rather low esteem. (Most of them never heard of Thai’s, Javanese, etc, and never heard of Koreans until the Korean War!) I remember that generation making all sorts of disparaging comments about Japanese and Japanese items. Pre War Japanese manufactured goods were appropriately called “Jap Junkâ€. Truly, it took decades for the Japanese to get rid of their reputation as producers of cheap junk. I know the WWII generation was truly surprised when 70’s era Japanese Automobiles turned out to be better built than American automobiles.

Another reason for the Arisaka having a bad reputation was the number of training rifles that came back. I have one. I bought it from a gun dealer who should have known better then put it out on the rack as a centerfire rifle. It is not. Japanese training rifles look, function, feed ammunition , will fire ammunition, just like a real centerfire rifle. However, unlike a real rifle, on the first shot , a training rifle will fragment into small pieces of cast iron and wood. A number of these rifles made it back to the US and were fired by un mechanical, un gun savvy GI’s. Those that survived told their friends about Japanese rifles that blew up on the first shot. Enough of those reports, and the WWII generation condemned all Japanese rifles as “cast†junk. I clearly remember period gunsmiths stating that the Japanese used “cast actionsâ€. The after effects of this is still around. All sorts of people condemn “castings†and “cast actions†without understanding why, and then use the terms “machined†and “forging†as quality characteristics without understanding the metallurgy of any of it.

I picked up a bubbarized 6.5 that had been rechambered to 6.5 Roberts years ago. Paid $35 with the dies in. Barrel turned out to be way oversized (I seem to recall that even the good barrels are .266 instead of the US .264.) Found a smith in Shotgun News who specialized in cheap rebarrels of Type 99s and stayed with the 6.5 Roberts since I had the dies. Got a cheap stock blank and an aftermarket trigger with a side safety and I was in business.

I've been happy with it. Close on cocking is a bit of a nuisance, but a hell for strong action is a good thing when you play with wildcats and milsurp powders.