In my current search for another rifle a 300 win mag with synthetic stock how do you compare one rifle to the other? In the past I bought rifles because of the wood, caliber, … more an emotional versus rational decision.

Looking at company websites they area a lot of fluff.

When I shop for a car I look at gas mileage, reliability, maintenance expense ect….

Any suggestions on what to look for in a non custom rifle?

Substitute accuracy for gas mileage in your car equation and that is what I look for in a factory synthetic rifle. While I will admit that I do not buy much synthetic, the last ones have been Savage and Remington ADLs. Economical, accurate and hardy.

I just pay gunsmiths to build them.

I pick up donor guns all the time and they just sit in the safe until I send them out to a gunsmith to build.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Substitute accuracy for gas mileage in your car equation and that is what I look for in a factory synthetic rifle. While I will admit that I do not buy much synthetic, the last ones have been Savage and Remington ADLs. Economical, accurate and hardy.

I've had good luck with my Savage and Remington Rifles. The improvements of the stocks on the Savages and the improved triggers on the Remingtons have made these my "go to" rifle brands.

Wait until this fall and buy a Cooper Classic in 300 Win mag with both French Walnut and the Synthetic for 275 dollars.

You won't be sorry.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Me I just buy the product I want..after some research...and for me it Sako m75 rifles. Love my 300WM SS I purchased 12-13 years ago. First Sako and never looked back now.

Here's my usual advice. Go to a big box store and have the clerk lay a Remington, a Savage, and a Winchester on the counter. DO NOT ASK THE CLERK'S ADVICE. He MAY know everything there is to know about rifles but in all probablity, he doesn't know shit.

Handle each rifle, put it to your shoulder, look it over, cycle the bolt,etc. One of them will whisper "take me home". If one has especially good looking wood and is, of course, blue, buy it and get a after market plastic stock to hunt with.

That is Beeman's highly scientific method of selecting firearms.

My biggest thing if it is a free marget gun I'll by almost any caliber style ect if the price is right.

Thomas,
If one of those come up let me know and I'll give you a finders fee.
Butch

Well first you have to tell us how you're going to use the rifle. A mountain rifle, glassing out west, in heavy brush, etc...

Then figure out the features you like on your old rifle and the ones you wish it had. A detachable magazine, how smooth the trigger breaks, how accurate it has to be... I always like my rifles of similar calibers to serve different purposes.

Here's my criteria for a new rifle once I pick the caliber, in no particular order:
1) weight, 2) magazine type (box or spring), 3) desired accuracy, 4) trigger pull quality, 5) overall length, 6) price, 7) balance in my hands/on my shoulder, 8) fluting or no fluting, 9) and of course how it looks.

Once you pick out all the above criteria it should really narrow down your choices. Out of the above price is always the biggest factor for me, but that's because I'm always trying to rationalized why I should spend more money! Then just like the previous poster said, go to a big name store and try them all out in person.

I don't recall ever buying a rifle that I figured would be totaly OK, right out of the box. So, I buy (factory) rifles that I think are likely to need the least tuning or modifications by a gunsmith. But I always plan on it taking a trip to the gunsmith for tweeking in some respect.

I look for the features that I like, such as walnut vs synthetic, blued vs stainless, controlled round feed vs push feed, short action vs long action, detachable magazine vs hinged floor plate, and several other features. My decision to purchase is based on features such as those mentioned, and caliber, and of course never on accuracy, because I don't get a chance to test that until after the purchase. And the issue of accuracy isn't usually really settled for some time, because I don't recall the last time I had a factory rifle that would shoot well enough to suit me right away. Take the CZ 550s that I have. So far none would shoot 1" groups at 100 yds, right out of the box, but all that I've had bedded so far will easily shoot that well now. Handload development helps too. I haven't had such good luck with other brands. With the Rugers I've had, bedding sometimes helps, and sometimes they will never shoot close to 1" groups, with the factory barrel. They make good donor actions though, for bush or truck guns.

There are probably several reasonably priced rifle makes that would probably be good to go with no additional work by a gunsmith, but I just haven't been shopping in that price range. I'm talking about perhaps a Sako for example, or maybe a Weatherby Vanguard MOA, or maybe one of the Steyrs, or perhaps one of the so-called tacticals that can serve as a sporter too. Tikka comes to mind, but I don't like the detachable magazine. I can think of more if I try, but no matter how hard I try somehow Remington and Savage aren't on the list.

Lately, about all that has been on my factory rifle list is the CZ 550 medium, and they have all shot noticably better after bedding by a gunsmith. The last one done was a 6.5x55 that wouldn't shoot better than 4" groups, or worse. Now that it's back from the gunsmith, bedded and the trigger adjusted, I've gotten less than 1" groups with two different handloads and one factory load. I'm sure the poor accuracy was why it was listed on gunbroker - cheap. Some guy just wasn't willing to put any more money in it. Seems to me that a lot of guys expect super accuracy from factory rifles right out of the box. It could be a reasonable expectation, but way too often it's been a set-up for dissappointment for me. My point in telling you about the CZ is because I could have been dsicouraged too, and dumped it on the market again, but I went with my intuition, and took a chance of putting a little money into bedding, and it worked.

Once bedded, and with some load development, if a rifle still doesn't shoot well enough to suit me, then I'll get rid of it or think about a custom barrel, if I like the rifle otherwise. I've had only one rifle with a custom barrel on it that wouldn't shoot 1" groups or better with its preferred load, and I have/had several. I've had very few factory rifles that would shoot 1" groups, until I got into the CZs, and so far they will all shoot that well, after bedding.

Right now I have a Stainless/laminate Ruger 77 MKII in 308 that is a pretty good looking rifle. I bought it off gunbroker for under $450, and I figured it was a deal because it was listed as having a Timney trigger, the action had been glass bedded, and the barrel re-crowned, and it's bead blasted to a dull finish, all by a professional gunsmith. The darn thing won't shoot better than about a 3" group. I've tried several factory loads, and some proven handloads, with the same results. It's pretty clear to me why it was on the market, and why it was priced for a quick sale. Sometimes they just aren't accurate.

Sometimes they are accurate. I've got another Ruger 77 MKII, similar story, good deal off gunbroker, but some trouble at first, custom Douglas barrel in 9.3x62, that shoots plenty accurately. Ya just put up the cash, take um to the range, and figure it out by shooting them. If they are satisfactory, keep um, if not it's a good excuse to shop for another one.

Many years ago, I had another Ruger MKII stainless 308 that the best groups I could get was about 2". I had a good friend who loved to tinker with guns, mostly benchrest and varmint stuff, and he had some good tools. He said he wanted to do an experiment with my Ruger, since he had not worked on one before. He generally worked with Remington short actions only. I figured it wouldn't hurt since I would have sold it anyway, and he said he wouldn't charge me badly. He pulled the barrel, lapped the lugs carefully, squared the face of the receiver, did nothing to the bolt face, set the barrel back by cutting the threads off the barrel, and rethreaded, then he re-cut the chamber using a minimum reamer and throat, and re-crowned the barrel. I took it to the range, and used the same ammo as before, Remington factory core locts 180 gr, and it would shoot less than 1" three shot groups regularly, more often than not. It shot even better with handloads. It was a great improvment. That experiment thoroughly convinced me of the value of the things done to it that I mentioned. I probably lucked out that the barrel was good, and all it needed was trueing, and a minimum chamber. Later I got tight for money and sold that rifle.

It's the features that count when shopping, and how well it fits you and feels, and matching the caliber to the game. Worry about the accuracy at the range. You never know what ya got until you shoot some targets. If it is really accurate right away, on the first try, first brand of ammo, then that is very exceptional in my experience. Generally you have to try different loads or brands of ammo to find one it really likes best. Often it needs to visit doctor gunsmith to get right.

KB

This is easy - buy a Blaser R93. No need for gunsmiths or messing about as it will shoot most factory ammo better than you can. It is short, handles well, very weather proof, reliable generally speaking, breaks down for transport, you can fit multiple barrels on the same stock if you want another calibre, you can even get a rimfire barrel for it for practise and everyone who owns one loves it.

Why a .300 Win Mag? If a 30-06 wont get er done you need a bigger bore not a faster .30.

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
This is easy - buy a Blaser R93. No need for gunsmiths or messing about as it will shoot most factory ammo better than you can. It is short, handles well, very weather proof, reliable generally speaking, breaks down for transport, you can fit multiple barrels on the same stock if you want another calibre, you can even get a rimfire barrel for it for practise and everyone who owns one loves it.

You're right. I could make things much simpler and have much less baggage in life by just buying a Blaser R93 in 308, or caliber of your choice, and keeping a small supply of the factory ammo it likes, and use it for everything.

Just think - no reloading bench needed. No tools, such as press, dies, calipers, tumbler, trimmer, etc. No supply of a varity of powder, primers, bullets and brass in various calibers, and several load data manuals. Think of all the gas and time saved by not spending time back and forth to the range. Save money on targets too, since the Blaser is accurate right out of the box. Just sight it in, and take it hunting, and perhaps check it at the beginning of each season. Unless you shoot a lot of critters, such as hogs, a box of premium factory ammo will last a while, maybe a season. Just toss the brass, unless a buddy wants it.

Blaser ownership may also eliminate the need for an expensive gunsafe. Just slide the Blaser under the bed, inside its case. Also, no need for several guncases, only one hard case and one soft case needed. Then there is no need for multiple scopes - just one needed, or perhaps two for the retentive types.

And then the savings on gunsmithing - that's difficult to estimate the savings there.

It's a no-brainer, doesn't get more obvious.

The miricle Blaser could change one's life, and allow more time to spend with family, friends, fishing, golfing, boating, traveling, hunting, join a health club, take up yoga and meditation, gardening, etc.

KB

Everyone, thank you for your advice. It seems that many of you have put a lot more thought into their weapons than I have in the past

Kabluewy I appreciate your point about willing to work with gunsmiths later to improve accuracy.

It sounds like I may be better off bying one that is already glassbedded and barrel free-floated such as the kimber-montana, a sako or browning A-bolt.

Zoboomafoo_dude, my intentions are mountains out west, inclement weather but also ability to shoot longer ranges.

wasbeeman, I like your suggestions but we are a shotgun state for deer so rifle selction is very limited in over the 20+ gun stores that I have visited within 100 miles of where live. I am thinking about vising a Cabelas in WV or MI.

carpetman1. I want a 300 win mag for the velocity and availability of ammo. I have a 300 H&H

caorach. A blaser is more money than I want to spend plus I enjoy reloading..... If I did not have things to do I would end up annoying my wife more than I already do?

The first rifle I purchased was in 1952, the last one in 2009.Over the years I have tryed out various brands and calibers of firearms. They may look good,feel good,and the gun magazine articals gave the firearm a glowing report, but some rifles needed a tune up to get them to shoot acceptable groups. A tune up may include adjusting the trigger pull, free floating the barrel, piller and glass bed the action, lapp the bolt locking lugs, recrown the muzzle, remove wood from under the bolt handle, and free float the magazine box between the action and floor plate. -- Good luck

Singleshot03---Yes the 300 Win mag has velocity over a 30-06. Is it earth shattering and needed? Not really in my books. The 30-06 is certainly adequate to reasonable hunting ranges and beyond. In your car comparison I slice it this way. You can get lets say 400 horsepower and it will do 140 MPH but it gets 10MPG. You can get 250 HP that only does 130MPH but gets 20MPG. Is the 10MPH worth it? In the .300 win mag you will use about half again as much powder as the 30-06 and it will be felt in recoil and blast. My cousin recently hunted with me and said a box of 20 for his .300 Weatherby cost $63---ouch. I haven't checked 30-06 price for factory stuff as I do reload----but I hope it's not that high. Even your 300 H&H uses a lot more powder than the 30-06 for minimal gain. Rule of thumb you'll get about 140 30-06 out of pound of powder and about 90 .300 Win Mag.

quote:

caorach. A blaser is more money than I want to spend plus I enjoy reloading..... If I did not have things to do I would end up annoying my wife more than I already do?

I understand as I was pushing the boat out to pay for mine and it was bought before the prices went through the roof. It might be worth looking around for a 2nd hand one though, especially in 300 Win mag you might find some haven't been shot a lot.

Being in the UK we are subject to very strict gun laws and have very limited access to resources so when we buy a rifle it has to be a good one as changing it, or even getting it worked on, is far from easy. I appreciate that things in the US are somewhat different and folks with you seem to expect to have to modify their rifles whereas our expectations are a little different. I just want to go out and shoot with mine :-)

I reload as well and enjoy it even though I'm pretty new to it. I was told that you couldn't neck size for the Blaser but this turns out not to be the case and I'm on about my 6th reloading of some brass now using a Lee collet neck sizer die. I only have a 308 Win so that keeps things simple for me.

Good luck with your quest and be sure to handle the Blaser before you decide, you might pick up a 2nd had off road stocked one at reasonable money. Tell the wife it is the only rifle you'll ever need so it is saving you money in the long run, that's what I told myself as well and so far it's been true :-)

caorach, I checked the blaser out last night online. Very interesting straight back bolt. I found a gun store about 3 hours away that carries them and I will take a ride up and look at them.

You may be more honest than me. Me telling my wife this will be the last rifle is like her telling me this is the last purse, shoes.....

Thanks,

jim

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:

quote:

caorach. A blaser is more money than I want to spend plus I enjoy reloading..... If I did not have things to do I would end up annoying my wife more than I already do?

Being in the UK we are subject to very strict gun laws and have very limited access to resources so when we buy a rifle it has to be a good one as changing it, or even getting it worked on, is far from easy. I appreciate that things in the US are somewhat different and folks with you seem to expect to have to modify their rifles whereas our expectations are a little different. I just want to go out and shoot with mine :-)

I only have a 308 Win so that keeps things simple for me.

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
This is easy - buy a Blaser R93. No need for gunsmiths or messing about as it will shoot most factory ammo better than you can.

quote:

Originally posted by kabluewy:
You're right. I could make things much simpler and have much less baggage in life by just buying a Blaser R93 in 308, or caliber of your choice, and keeping a small supply of the factory ammo it likes, and use it for everything.
It's a no-brainer, doesn't get more obvious.
KB

I was being somewhat factious in making my comments, however the question is anything said about the Blaser not true? The only factor that's a big problem is the price, but considering how much they have increased, perhaps a guy could make a thousand $ on resale when he gets too old to hunt.

On the other hand, any accurate rifle in 308 would serve just as well as a Blaser, for the one rifle person.

KB

I buy rifle that are appealing to me, then after I know I like it I look at the caliber. After that I decide weather or not the price is right and if im willing to pay said price for whatever weapon im buying.

Most recently my purchases was a Marline 1895MXLR chambered in the 450 Marlin. The reason I purchased it was cause my new hunting lease is in prime time bear country with lots of feeders around. I wanted a short gun that I could quickly shoulder and drop mommy on her ass. SO a guide gun was a fact, then after that I just looked at which one appealed to me the most. and the combination of the nice ash laminate wood with stainless metal sealed the deal.

Before that was a Savage 17HMR, I was in the market for a cheap rifle to shoot and have fun with. I knew I wanted a rimfire just because they are dirt cheap to shoot, no recoil, great accuracy if you want. So I just happened to see a good looking Savage in a local store. It had a Laminate wood thumbhole stock, ash color with a stainless heavy barrel. bolt action with accutrigger and a box 5rd magazine. When I first seen it I liked it, but it didnt scream BUY ME! mainly cause cause I already had 2 other rifles with the exact same color wood. So after looking at Savages website I seen it also came in a nutmeg color, which I quickly ordered. I havent shot it yet or even mounted the scope on it.

I buy ones that, if they turn out to not shoot worth shit right away, are easy to get that way. I like MOd 70's because you can get them anywhere and any decent gunsmith can work on them. I stay away from one-off's built by so and so off a converted soemthing or other...not my cup of tea.

I Check the fit into my shoulder and how well it
shoots.

My first advice would be "Don't leave used rifles out of the mix." Particularly in this economy some very good second-hand rifles are on the market.

Unless one has no real interest in rifles themselves and just wants an off-the-shelf tool, I think it is a basic error to rush right out and buy something new. To me rifles are a lot like cars or homes...they are not just tools.

Using the same logic, I bought a very nice used low-mileage Porsche for about half the money I could have spent buying a plain-jane new Toyota Corolla. Guess which I enjoy driving more?

If you don't have to have the rifle immediately, I'd start by hanging around gun shops, gun shows, gun clubs, etc., with my eyes and ears wide open.

A couple of years ago I picked up a very nice FN Safari bolt action .280 Rem rifle with Timney trigger, Hart barrel, very nice fully wrap-around checkered laminated walnut/walnut sporter stock, 3-position safety, etc., for $200 by doing just that. A guy at the local gun club wanted something else, so he had it for sale. I didn't need a .280, but who could pass on that deal? Turns out it is one of the most accurate hunting rifles I have ever seen or owned. Since then I've also gotten a nice ZKK 600 in .30-06, an S&L M65-DL in 7 mm Rem Mag, a Ruger No. 1 in .300 Win Mag, and several other very nice rifles the same way.

Right now I am making arrangements to go see a ,308 pre-'64 Model 70 FW with a custom myrtle stock that a guy is asking $400 for...

Anyway, as Beeman said, something will whisper in your ear, cuddle up to your shoulder and ask you to take it back to your place. After you are done with her, a rifle will probably do the same.

Then you can check to see if is a caliber you want or could use, appropriate to your uses, a "good investment" and all that.